22 replies to this topic

[John Shaw]

Having read previous postings I now know that modern stones are carved in France, however where were the origional quarried and carved?
John

[Terry Denham]

The original Portland headstones were all made in the UK and were carved by hand. For this reason, there are no two regimental badges which are truely identical on the older stones.

After WW1 there was a real shortage of masons and the contracts were spread amongst dozens of firms.

The Portland limestone was also quarried in the UK as was the slate and granite widely used in some parts of the country.

[Captain Dave]

Thats interesting to know that the first Reg crests were hand carved. Did they have a standardised template they worked with (ie, trace the outline first) or did they do them in batch lots, based on pre orders? (ie, a team concentrated on the same crest)

[Pete Wood]

Look at the photo on a previous thread http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=11987

[Terry Denham]

The masons worked to a template and CWGC invented a machine that could inscribe several headstone badge outlines at once - so groups of same regiment stones were produced.

However, as seen in RT's picture, the actual carving was done by hand.

If you compare a row of original stones you will see minor differences in each sample of the same badge. This does not, of course, apply to new stones which are laser produced and should all be identical - although the badge design on these often differs markedly from those on the old hand carved versions.

[Bob Coulson]

Terry,

Just as a matter of interest is it known approx what percentage of stones in F&F are still the originals.?

Bob.

[Terry Denham]

Bob

The vast majority are still originals.

[Bob Coulson]

Terry,

Quite surprising that, I would have thought that many would have had to have been replaced by now.
Interesting.

Bob.

[Terry Denham]

They were built to last!

[John Shaw]

Thankyou to you all
John

[Hooge]

Hi All.I live in Eastbourne,east sussex and next to the railway station is a workshop my freind uses to service lawnmowers.What intrigued me is that quite a lot of the walls are built from CWGC  headstones that are partially finished or complete.Any ideas?thanks.John

[Matt Dixon]

John,

How intriguing, definately ask Terry Denham on this one.

[Terry Denham]

Not far from where I live! I would be most interested to see these.

I can only assume that the premises were once a stonemason's workshop. After WW1 masons all over the country worked on the headstones. Possibly these are rejects.

[salientpoints]

Hi All.I live in Eastbourne,east sussex and next to the railway station is a workshop my freind uses to service lawnmowers.What intrigued me is that quite a lot of the walls are built from CWGC  headstones that are partially finished or complete.Any ideas?thanks.John

Can anyone see this from the car park or commercial road?

It certainly is most curious!

Cheers

Ryan

[angie999]

Terry,

Quite surprising that, I would have thought that many would have had to have been replaced by now.
Interesting.

Bob.

Some have been replaced, others have had the personal details recut and some are showing quite a lot of wear, but the war only started 90 years ago. Go down to a local churchyard and you may well find 18th and 19th century stones still fully legible, so no surprise that most are original and still fully legible.

[Chris Caul]

Some of the CWGC headstones in Derbyshire cemetries were made locally from Derbyshire sandstone, and are a light brown-ish colour rather than the usual white.

[BatterySergeantMajor]

A few months ago I was lucky to be able to have a chat with the man who is responsable for the (re-) carving of the headstones. They gave a demonstration at a cemetery between Zillebeke and Ieper : one carver worked with a machine, the other with a hammer and chisel. He told me that he still wanted his carvers to be able to work the old way: carving by hand.

He gave me two reasons for this approach: first he felt that "involvement" with the headstone was better when carved by hand and 2) it was still useful that his people could do the job in the old way because it was much easier to sent someone with a plane to for example Norway with a hammer and a chisel than with all the necessary machinery.

He also pointed out that they were trying to do most of the recarving in situ, and that headstones would only be brought back to the Arras carvery if work could not be done on the cemetery itself.

I really admired the skill and of these people. We often take it for granted that the Commonwealth war cemeteries are the most striking of all, but try to imagine what it would be without this fantastic organisation. For those who are visiting the Somme area it is interesting to visit the Serre nr. 2 Cemetery, and compare it with the French cemetery a few yards further. At that moment you realise how lucky we are to have these CWGC gardeners, stonemasons, giving the best of themselves.

Erwin

[Hooge]

Terry,sorry I have not replied earlier but have had computerproblems.The building looks like it is knocked up from breeze blocks and cwgc headstones put in as fillers.I don't think the building is particularly old.I may be able to get you a look some time so here is my phone number, [phone no. removed by moderator].One I checked on has a slight date abberation but others are coorect according to the CWGC website.A few look unfinished,some lookperfectly ok.Why wouldI wonder they turn up at Eastbourne,perhaps on the way to the western front,who knows as it is next to a defunct railway siding.I have a few photos but at the moment cant load them onto to computer.I will try as soon as possible.John

[Terry Denham]

John

Thanks for responding. I have noted your phone number but removed it from your posting as it can be dangerous to put such details on the web. You never know who is out there!

I would dearly love a visit but, meanwhile, can anything be seen from the road etc as I can always pop down as I am only about forty minutes away.

[healdav]

Not precisely on this topic, but I know a place not too far from where I live where an stone mason has built a quite large lake with the walls entirely of wrecked headstones (he must be a lousy mason). His house is on a small island on the lake with a drawbridge.

[Hooge]

Terry,nothig visible from the road but you need to enterthe building to see them as theyare facing inwards.If you would like to see them I can arrange it but please give me about a weeks notice as I need to go through a second and third party.John

[Terry Denham]

John

I would be very happy to see them but only at your convenience.

Contact me off-Forum by email if you are happy to organise a visit.

[Hooge]

Hi Terry.Sorry I did not include e-mail address. Here it is [edited by moderator - It can be dangerous to quote your email address on Forum and there is no need. Just use the Email button to contact a member privately - Terry D]  John