10 replies to this topic

[tincie]

Looking for some information and hoped that the pals might be able to help.

My Great-Uncle was killed by a sniper whilst leading his men in action.  KIA on 6th November 1916, his body - missing in action.  I was wondering if anyone knew which cemetaries the bodies were taken to during battlefield clearance.  

He was serving with 16th KRRC, 100th infantry, 33rd Division.
According to the war diary, the Btn was relieved on the 6th, but were engaged in fighting on the 5th.  I assume this is when he died.  They were in Snow T trench, attacking Hazy trench (battle order number 155) between Lesboeufs and Le Transloy when he fell.  I was wondering if anyone knew which cemetaries the bodies were taken to during battlefield clearance??

Grandma said that he was buried in Bapume.

Also, on his War Records there are some letters that I don't understand.  Can't read them all, only the 1st two are clear:

"granted P.C.B B???"

Thanks
Tincie

[Tom Morgan]

Tincie, it could be very difficult to answer your question with any certainty because the "battlefield clearance" you refer to wasn't a one-off event as far as location of bodies was concerned.  I believe the last major search for bodies on the Somme took place in the 1930s.  By this time, many of the Somme cemeteries were completed. So if a body was found, the cemetery it was taken to depended on when the discovery was made.

Bapaume was not captured by the British until March, 1917, so that's another factor to consider when following the Bapaume lead.  

Finally, as I'm sure you're aware, there is the possibility that your soldier was among the (approximately) 35,000 Missing of the Somme whose remains have still not been found.

Tom

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

Hello Tincie, The most recent battlefield archaeology near Somme uncovered artifacts as well as the bodies of 2 Germans, one killed in 1915, the other under investigation, and a third body, that of a British soldier killed on 1 July 1916.

If your relative went missing after his death there is a very good chance he remains where he was last buried. As Tom stated, he could be one of the numerous unrecovered dead.

Ralph

[Matt Dixon]

Was Guards Cemetery at Lesboeufs used as such?  I am sure Terry Denham may be able to help.

[Paul Reed]

Guards cemetery does have post-war concentrations from the Lesboeufs area, but one you should go and have a look at is Bancourt British Cemetery on the outskirts of Bapaume. This contains many British soldiers whose remains were recovered and buried by the Germans either on the battlefield or in one of their own military cemeteries. It also includes many killed in this area of the battlefield who were recovered after the war and moved here.

[Sommesoldier]

that of a British soldier killed on 1 July 1916.

Hi Ralph,

Was that soldier identified ?

Cheers
Tim.

[salientguide]

Tincie silly question probably but have you actually checked the CWGC register to confirm your relative is truely MIA or wether he has a burial location. If MIA the register will tell you which memorial he is commemmorated on, presumably Thiepval?

Another possibility is a primary burial site was known in 1916 but the location may have been lost particularly in that arae during the Spring Offensive 1918 when fighting again passed over all the old Somme area. If his body was recovered he will be in an unnamed grave with a headstone "Known unto God" but he may well still rest in the countryside.
SG

[tincie]

Dear SG,
It's all a little confusing!!!  Having been able to pinpoint the EXACT spot on which he was shot by a sniper (using war diaries, infantry orders etc), I hoped to have been able to identify the cemetery in which he might have been buried.  I know that there are many stones that show just the unit of the soldier buried there.

I also know that it's possible that he was blown apart by motor, but this was the last skirmish in this area before winter and the following spring, the Germans retreated and the Guards took over the area (I think).  He is commemmorated at Thiepval, but another soldier from his unit with the same death date is commemmorated at Loos.  Is this usual?

The following are identified burials at Thiepval, all from units involved in the attack on Hazy trench -
JAMES, Rfn James Thomas. R/16269. 16th Bn Kings Royal Rifle Corps. 4th November, 1916. II. A. 8.
MCLACHLAN, Rfn William, C/1441. 16th Bn Kings Royal Rifle Brigade. 3rd November, 1916. II. K. 8.
PEARCE, Pte Walter Alfred. G/14544. 1st Bn The Queens. 5th November, 1916. I. J. 9.
STUBBS, Rfn. Philip Ernest, R/1831. 16th Bn Kings Royal Rifle Corps. 3rd November, 1916. II. K. 4
WILLS. Pte Arthur. 42550. 2nd Bn Worcestershire Regt. 2nd November, 1916. II. A. 9.

Also another of his unit (died 8.11.16) is buried GROVE TOWN CEMETERY, MEAULTE  

Still struggling with this one -

Also, on his War Records there are some letters that I don't understand. Can't read them all, only the 1st two are clear:

"granted P.C.B B???"

Thanks to all who have offered help so far.  It's very much appreciates!

Tincie  

[Morval Ross]

Hi All,

My GrandUncle was killed ont he 12th at les Beoufs also.  He was killed during an attack on Hazy trench i believe witht he final objective beig some gun pits nearby. I have been over the grouns a number of times.  It is interesting that my Grand Uncle , Sgt William Glennon 2nd Dubs,  his officer, ECB Dillion who was killed the next morning is buried in the Gaurds Cemetary.  The familiy story is that when Wiliam wa killed his comrades buried him in a local church yard, here the confusion sets in, the familiy believe the church yard to be that of Combles, but my research leads me to believe that it was either Morval or Les beoufs.

Is there any wasy of finding out how many sgts were killed that day, 12th October in that area.  there is a couple of "A Sgt of the Great War" headstones in the Gaurds Cemnetary.  anyone who has SDGW may be able to help me.  Barry Cuttells "148 Days on the Somme" gives a good account of the action of the Dubs on the 12/10/16 in the area.  but I have to wait to get it back from my Dad with some more of his research to confirm details.

Sorry for going off on a tangent, please fell free to slap me about the head.

Regards

Ross,

[Exaltabit]

Really interested to come across this thread. My grandfather was wounded and won the MC with 1st battalion Royal Irish Fusiliers on 12/10/16 in an attack from Lesboeufs against Le Transloy. I am really keen to pin point his, or least his company's exact location and objectives; the war diary has helped but gives only a broad description. How do I do this? Any advice greatfully accepted.
Ben

[BIFFO]

My relation is also buried in lesboeufs,
I have failed to find out where he was originally killed/buried
Now that the flood gates are open all the info I have found is as follows
Gunner David Richard Thomas reg number 37366
Royal horse/royal field artillery
Born Pontypridd glam
Enlisted porth glam
Kia 31-10-1916 France.
He was married to Elizabeth a Thomas of treharford
What was happening in the area 31-10-16
I have looked in sdgw and started to look in ancestry but have hit a brick wall.
Any one have any ideas walk this way
Biff