17 replies to this topic

[Desmond7]

Sir Henry Wilson - admittedly a bigot and seemingly an accomplished stirrer of unmentionable stuff.
But has his contribution to the British army in the pre-1914 period been unjustly overlooked?
He must have had some positive qualities to be able to wipe the floor with the less well prepared and (I'm assuming) somewhat arrogant naval chiefs when he presented painstaklingly researched plans for the transportation and logistics of the BEF (to France) in the event of a Euro-conflict.
Can we make a quality judgement on this stroke of military politicking?  
Any opinions on this character? Redeeming features? Or was he an arch conspirator as has been widely stated?
I'm browsing for stuff about him at the moment and I'd be interested in hearing broad opinions from those members who LURVE the debates on the higher ranks of military life!
Des

[swizz]

A biography is being written about him at the minute by a quite well-known Irish historian - it might actually be finished now. Don't think I can say who it is though...

You might not know that Henry Wilson took the salute at the Peace Day celebrations in Belfast in August 1919.
Swizz

[ianw]

I think, as you say, that he did his country a great service in conceiving and codifying the plans that got the B.E.F to France in 1914. However, he also was a terrible intriguer and seems to have got considerable pleasure from cleverly winding up all and sundry. Perhaps he ultimately did not put his considerable intellect to best use. Enigmatic and mercurial to the end.

[Desmond7]

Cheers folks.
Ian .. for mercurial do I read 'slippery customer?' !!!!!
Des

[armourersergeant]

Perhaps the best thing that can be said of him is that he died with sword in hand!

A poor/pathetic feild commander. Bad and insorbordinate staff officer and an incouragable intriuger who caused much trouble.

Apparently a good staff college commandant though. And at times a very funny man to be in company with.

regards
Arm.

[Greenwoodman]

Interested to hear that there's a new biography on the way. Hear are the major works on him.

Callwell, Major-General Sir Charles E. Field Marshal Sir Henry Wilson: His Life and Diaries, (2 vols.), (London: Cassell & Co. Ltd., 1927).

Collier, Basil. Brasshat: a Biography of Field-Marshal Sir Henry Wilson 1864-1922, (London: Secker & Warburg, 1961).

Jeffery, Keith. The Military Correspondence of Field Marshal Sir Henry Wilson 1918-1922, (London: The Bodley Head, 1985).


Pretty much agree with what's been said. Slippery customer, own agenda, lacked loyalty, intriguer.

[swizz]

The new biography should be worth a look - the person writing it knows their stuff and has spent a long time researching it. Should I hear anything further about a publication date, I'll post the info here.
Swizz

[Bernard_Lewis]

Our Pal Tom Morgan has the book on Wilson's military correspondence (pub. by Bodley Head) at a very reasonable price (similar for Wully Robertson). Got both recently and on a browse both are interesting though HW's runs from 1918 - 1922 so not a lot on the early part of the war. Currently in the 'To Read' pile...

Bernard

[Robert Dunlop]

Sir Henry Wilson had a major impact on the Staff College during his time as Commandant.  From Brian Bond's book, 'The Victorian Army and the Staff College', comes the following quote:

"As Dr Neil Summerton has commented: 'He apprehended far better than most of his contemporaries that in the realm of strategy an understanding of the interaction between military and political matters was an extremely valuable asset for the senior staff officer.'  Where he is perhaps open to criticism is that 'in a less than dispassionate manner, he tended to concentrate on this aspect to the exclusion of all others'.

The day after [Wilson's] great farewell dinner one of the staff wrote to Mrs Wilson:

...The most noticeable thing was how deeply attached all are to Henry, and can you wonder?  What we all felt was that the College is parting with the greatest commandant it has ever known.  When we left the dining-room there was none of the usual uproarious bear-fighting which takes place.  We were, I think, too sad for that.  The reception Henry got and the speech he made were indeed a fitting ending to his reign...  I was privileged to serve under him during his time as commandant.

Another described Wilson's departure as a personal loss to every member of staff, to every student, to every mess waiter and college employee."

However, Wilson' successor, Wully Robertson, 'found on the hall table a bill from Henry Wilson for 250 pounds for various items he was leaving behind.  Robertson had not 250 pounds in the world, so he wrote to Wilson's predecessor [Sir Henry Rawlinson].  Rawly replied: "That fellow Henry!  My wife put in those trees and gave them to Lady Wilson.  The furniture is a gift of past Commandants and goes with the house.  You had better dig up the potato patch and see if the seed potatoes are still there".'

As Commandant, Wilson's emphasis on strategic thinking and analysis was not balanced by an attention to the more mundane practical aspects of Staff work.  This came home to roost when Wilson himself was involved in a key position on General French's staff.  Wilson seemed fixated on the the analysis that he had made prior to the war, partly in collaboration with Foch.  Wilson appears to have played a major role in both the advance into Belgium and First Ypres in pushing his strategies without paying heed to Macdonogh's intelligence reports for example.

Robert

[Desmond7]

Aha - so to summarise - 'has the finer principles in his head but fails to implement these in reality' .... school report?

[Robert Dunlop]

I would suggest 'has some finer principles, which he can express very well in class.  Appears to have difficulty grasping alternative views.  Course work either not done or unsatisfactory.'

Robert

[Desmond7]

And so -
A case of I know better than you ..
thus is FM H. Wilson the BIG Donkey of WW1? Too full of himself to see his faults? Course work 'done' in his own mind methinks?
Now.. having established the down-side of this huy. Why was he a big hitter with the establishment ....
Did they use him more than he used them?
I get more interested in this guy all the time.
Cheers all and especially Rob the Housemaster!!!

[Lt Colonel Gerald Smyth]

If you're ever going through Liverpool Street station stop for a moment and spare a glance at the war memorial (top of the escalators leading to the Bishopsgate exit on the left just beside McDonalds). And beneath it you'll find a further tribute to Sir Henry Wilson who was murdered as he returned home after unveiling it, his death witnessed by Sir Edward Carson from his nearby house. His murderers had both served under him in the Great War and were both duly hanged. Officially this act sparked the Irish Civil War. But actually that conflict began on Easter Week 1916

[Old Tom]

I had not noticed this thread when it was active a few years ago. I was going to add a reference to his death. His remarks during the retreat from Mons have been quoted in a number of books and were along the lines of 'jetison your kit and get a move on' (or words to that effect); that never seemed to me to be the words of a Staff College commandant. Perhaps he was as rattled as his boss,  but he realy should not have been taken by surprise by the German manoeuvre outflanking the French army.The British plan to deploy to Maubeuge must have taken some account of the likely German action.
I have at the back of my mind a statue in London, perhaps between Victoria Station and Buckingham Palace - or am I thinking of Marechal Foch?

Old Tom

[Ron Clifton]

As well as the edition of his correspondence referred to in an earlier post, there is another publication by the Army Records Society, "The Army and the Curragh Incident, 1914" which has some illuminating material on his involvement at that time. I would say that he was a born intriguer who enjoyed "mixing it" for those whom he saw, and not without some justification, as his intellectual inferiors.

He was not a success as a field commander but his staff work, when not under intense pressure (as in the Retreat from Mons) seems to have been quite competent, including the pre-war planning which delivered the BEF to France in August 1914. You can find references in French sources to "l'Armee W" for the BEF, the W standing for Wilson.

He was certainly seen by other officers as being in too thick with the politicians, which is how he ended up as CIGS in 1918, and he was an ardent Francophile, which made him useful in Allied conversations. Perhaps he was just too much a theoretician of war to be good as an actual practitioner.

Ron

[Staffsyeoman]

Old Tom, on 12 June 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I have at the back of my mind a statue in London, perhaps between Victoria Station and Buckingham Palace - or am I thinking of Marechal Foch?
Old Tom

Yes, it's Foch.    Opposite the No.11 stop for the bus to the National Army Museum.. In Victoria Place.

https://maps.google....iew/mapleft.kml

Here's the Memorial to Henry Wilson

http://images.ookabo...ry_Wilson_s.jpg

Can't find any statues of him..

[1st east yorks]

Old Tom, on 12 June 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I had not noticed this thread when it was active a few years ago. I was going to add a reference to his death. His remarks during the retreat from Mons have been quoted in a number of books and were along the lines of 'jetison your kit and get a move on' (or words to that effect); that never seemed to me to be the words of a Staff College commandant. Perhaps he was as rattled as his boss,  but he realy should not have been taken by surprise by the German manoeuvre outflanking the French army.The British plan to deploy to Maubeuge must have taken some account of the likely German action.
I have at the back of my mind a statue in London, perhaps between Victoria Station and Buckingham Palace - or am I thinking of Marechal Foch?

Old Tom

Tom,i think this maybe the quote your thinking of.
During the retreat from Mons, Henry Wilson sent this message to General Snow.(quote taken from Mons,the retreat to victory by John Terraine.

From Henry to Snowball( Wilson to General Snow)
"Throw overboard all ammunition and impedimenta not absolutely required,and load up your lame ducks on all transport,horse and mechanical,and hustle along"

Anthony.

[Old Tom]

Thank you both.

Old Tom