115 replies to this topic

[squirrel]

Thanks for posting it -very impressive memorial.

[angie999]

My personal view is that I cannot participate in a Remembrance Sunday ceremony, or feel part of the Festival of Remembrance, because they contain Christian ritual.

I am not a Christian. In fact I have no religious faith. For that reason, I prefer the growing reinstatement of a national silence on 11 November, because it is secular.

It is not really possible to have  truly national time for remembrance if it retains a religious character.

All the Christian ritual does is perpetuate something which would have seemed normal in 1919, but id no longer appropriate in a multi-cultural, multi-faith and no faith society.

[doogal]

I am not a Christian. In fact I have no religious faith. For that reason, I prefer the growing reinstatement of a national silence on 11 November, because it is secular.

I prefer this also, especially as I always felt that my own desire to take part in any kind of formal rembrance tended to get wrapped up in a religion that I cannot claim to be part of at all.

regards

doogal

[andigger]

I prefer this also, especially as I always felt that my own desire to take part in any kind of formal rembrance tended to get wrapped up in a religion that I cannot claim to be part of at all.

regards

doogal

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am leaving this thread alone... my ears are burning and I'm afraid of lightening....

Andy

[Paul Johnson]

Unless there is a major conflict in the meantime I would suggest that in November 2018 — the centenary of the Armistice — there should be the last of the Remembrance services.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never, Never, Never.

PAUL J

[John Hartley]

I rarely find myself agreeing with Angie but do on this one. I also have no beliefs in the supernatural but, in recent years, have tried to attend one of the Remembrance services of the memorials I've researched. For me, the community coming together in remembrance organised by a church is better than the community not coming together at all.

Until this year, I have always found at least a small part that was secular and inclusive. However, this year I visited my nearest memorial, for the first time. I was dismayed to find that it was not only an entirely Christian service, but appeared to be entirely Anglican. The "village" has a Church of England and a United Reform Church (whose congregation did seem to be participating).

But I saw no presence from the small "charismatic" church, nor from the synagogue. Perhaps they had been asked and chose not to attend, but I felt  this was unlikely. Certainly it left me with a feeling of being excluded and I won't be attending there in future.

John

[Dragon]

Perhaps they had been asked and chose not to attend, but I felt  this was unlikely.

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In one small town which I'm not prepared to identify, Unitarians are deliberately excluded.

Gwyn

[Soren1915]

Hi Pal's,

Just a thought,

With regards to religion, I thought that the cross of sacrifice denotes Christ's cross, and from what I remember the stone with 'their name liveth...' is meant to represent an altar.

And especially at Tyne Cot they (the dead soldiers) were laid out as though they are at a church service, or that could have been the tour guide feeding me a line!

So Christian imagery is all over the place, well at least in the cemeteries.

[John Hartley]

Your apology is accepted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you.

Now that we both know that you weren't referring to any of my remarks on the subject of the Twin Tower/Manchester bombing, I'm sure that we can agree that anyone who made a comment in the terms as you originally posted may not have thought the matter through fully.

Needless to say, I wouldnt necessarily include in that, those people who were made homeless or jobless by the bombing in Manchester who I could well understand might take a different view. Pity you can't recall the original source, it may have clarified the issue

John

[John Hartley]

However, as a committed Christian, I find your comments about my faith unacceptable.

Yet another apology?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No.

John

Edited by John_Hartley, 17 November 2005 - 05:55 PM.

[NIGEL]

I was going to say what the hell has religion got to do with remembering the dead? but then everybodies god has been responsible for the deaths of most of the people we are remembering and infact most of the wars ever fought.

Rememberence Sunday is about remembering those and why they died and even those who took part and are no longer with us, and one thing it isnt about is a load of hocus pocus mumbo jumbo superstition, but if people want to include it in the rememberence service because some of those may have been religious then i see no problem with that, but they ( the Church's ) shouldnt dictate or hijack the event

[NIGEL]

It is certainly not necessary to be religious to remember the dead. Personally I find that my beliefs help me better understand why lives are lost in wartime.

jbd

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????????

[ianw]

Do I hear the sound of warning bells rousing slumbering moderators from their sleep of ages on marble couches in their lofty halls of judgement ?

"B-----ks"  they mutter "JH is at it again , locked in mortal combat with jbd. Grab a gross of blue pencils".

[John Hartley]

Let me assure you that I have certanly thought the issue through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can I please suggest you reread my post without making a prior assumption as to what I might have written.

When you have re-read it, you will see that I was referring to the person who you recall making the remark and not to you.  From your recollection, that person said that they felt the Manchester bombing was more horrific that 11 September - are we disagreeing that they could not have thought it through? Surely not?

And I thought it was me being accused of starting a flame war. I must watch out for your sense of humour in future.

John

[John Hartley]

I have met many atheists and all of them have respect for other peoples religious beliefs even though you clearly don't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eh?

[Max]

Do I hear the sound of warning bells rousing slumbering moderators from their sleep of ages on marble couches in their lofty halls of judgement ?

"B-----ks"  they mutter "JH is at it again , locked in mortal combat with jbd. Grab a gross of blue pencils".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on Ian.

This little spat stops here and now.

Andy

[andigger]

AMEN  

[Drummy]

There should be a seperate topic on GWF for members who go head to head, as original threads end up going off on a tangent!!!!

[John Hartley]

There should be a seperate topic on GWF for members who go head to head, as original threads end up going off on a tangent!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

None to shabby an idea.

A sort of virtual "behind the bike sheds"? But what'd be the virtual equivalent of "Leave him, Johnny, he's not worth it"?

Andy -  I know when a moderator has flagged a yellow card. Accepted without question.

John

[Patrick H]

Anyway wheres that George Armstrong Custer who started all this? I seem to recall he lost the last battle he fought!

Patrick