303 replies to this topic

[Jon Miller]

It seems that the occurrence of two brothers dying on the same date is not quite as rare as might have been imagined when this thread started - mainly due to some really dedicated research by several pals. But I'm going to play the hard taskmaster here - on the proviso that I haven't missed such an example in the thread above, can anybody find a case of two brothers dying on the same day, but who were not in the same battalion?

[jim_davies]

Jon,

There are a number of brothers who were serving with different battalions who died on the same day.

Chris has put all the brothers on this page:

http://www.1914-1918.net/heroes/brothers.htm

Jim

[Jon Miller]

Thanks Jim, I've had a long look down through the currenct listing of brothers killed on the same day.  It is as described - extremely poignant.  

A couple of things that came to mind - Thomas Copp, who was killed on 1 July 1916, served with the 9th Batt Devonshire Regt, not as stated, according to CWGC site.

The other thing, which must hit just about everybody who reads the list, is the absolutely staggering amount of brothers who have no known grave.  Whilst I realise that in the period pre-1916, one is concerned with the Battle of Loos where there was a disproportionate number of soldiers remembered on the memorial, I was under the impression that identification v non-identification was approximately 50-50 overall during the war.  Even allowing for my generalisation, it can be clearly seen that by the end of 1915, the total of only 5 1/2 sets of brothers being identified and buried out of a total of, I think, 61 sets is extraordinary.  Is this coincidence, or would there be some formulaic reason?

[jim_davies]

Jon,

I think the numbers who have no known grave, are a reflection of the types of actions that many of the brothers lost their lives. The same dates keep cropping up 9 May, 9 Aug, 25 Sep, & 13 Oct 1915 etc: all major attacks with intense fighting and little opportunity to identify and bury the dead.

And another pair of Lincolns brothers-

Pte Albert Edward Gregory, 9300, 2nd Lincolns, aged 21
L/Cpl William Charles Gregory, 8929, 2nd Lincolns, aged 23

Both born Donaghadee, Antrim and enlisting London.

Son of William Charles & ester Gregory of Bell Ln, Fenstanton, St Ives.

Killed in action 9 May 1915.

Jim

[Chris Noble]

Came across two yesterday.
Private Albert Wadkin 15759.
9th Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment.
K.I.A. 9/8/15, age 23.

Private Arthur Wadkin 11883.
Also of the 9th Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment.
K.I.A. 9/8/15, age 19.

Sons of the late Richard and Elizabeth Wadkin, of Beech Lane, Spofforth, Harrogate, North Yorkshire.
Both are commemorated on the Helles Memorial, Gallipoli.

Regards, Chris.

[shawbridge]

Hi,
On my local War Memorial at Pollokshaws in Glasgow there are two brothers listed, Thomas B. Sloan & James B. Sloan.
Some research on the CWGC & Australian War Memorial websites has revealed the following:

  741   Pte. Thomas Bowman SLOAN, 21st Inf. Btn. AIF,  &
1783  Pte. James  Bowman  SLOAN, 21st Inf.Btn. AIF,
both drowned at sea when a lifeboat capsized during the evacuation of the troopship 'Southland' after it was torpedoed in the Aegean Sea on 2nd Sept. 1915.
They were the sons of William & Elizabeth Sloan of Springfield Road, Box Hill, Victoria, Australia (formerly of Pollokshaws, Glasgow).
Thomas Sloan was 23 at the time of his enlistment in January 1915 & James Sloan was 21 when he enlisted in May 1915.

Both are commemorated on the Helles Memorial & Pollokshaws War Memorial , Glasgow.

Best Regards,
Shaw.

[jim_davies]

Lt Charles Wright, Lincs Yeomanry, Aged 28 &
Major Robert Wright, Lincs Yeomanry. Aged 33

Both KIA 29 Nov 1917, sons of Charles & Isabel Marguerite Of Willingham House< Market Rasen, Lincs.

Buried in adjacent graves at Ramleh Cemetry, Palestine.

[RodB]

This statistic [being even more pedantic] seems to depend on the premise that they were both killed.  As most people in the war were NOT killed, I look forward to a revision.  Upwards.  After all, lots of pairs of brothers survived.

At the risk of being a raw prawn I'll weigh in here.
AIF death rate = 20% (.2). yes - 20%
So chances of first brother being killed = .2
Days in war 1550 (assuming both served for the duration). But We have to assume that the average period of service was half that i.e. 775 days.
We're talking about brothers killed on any same day, not a particular same day.
So chances of second brother being killed on that day = .2 / 775
Multiply it out we get .2 x (.2 / 775) = .0000516
or 1 chance in 19,380 of any 2 AIF brothers being killed on the same day.

Now - assuming 220,000 served (I'm not sure of the exact number), and in those days families were large and Oz was a young country) and 70% served at the same time as another brother... 220,000 x .7 / 2 77,000 pairs of brother.
77,000 /  19,380 = approx 4 chances of 2 AIF brothers killed on same day.

This figure assumes deaths were evenly spread across the calendar, but most occurred during relatively short periods of combat. Assuming this was 50% of the time and the brothers served in the same unit, we can halve these odds and say there was 1 chance in 9690 of a pair of brothers being killed on the same day. In fact I believe the odds are lower still if we consider that officers ran in families, that combat deaths were probably compressed into even more intense periods.

The really nasty statistic here is that there was a .04 chance (1 in 25) that neither would come home. But Haig wouldn't understand this, he failed arithmetic at staff college. The statistics paint a picture of postwar Europe and Empire families sitting at half-empty dinner tables.

[Fred W]

I can think of Geoffrey and Harry Nutter RHA, died 6/2/17 buried in Eclusier Communal Cem. [QUOTE]



What is more having joined on the same day they were killed by the same shell.
What are the odds on that? Another brother, Eric, was killed on the 3 November 1918. A fourth brother, James, won the MM serving in the R.A.M.C.

Fred W.

[jim_davies]

Father & Son:

Lt-Col Harry Moorhouse, DSO, 4th KOYLI. KIA 9/10/1917
Capt ronald Wilkinson Morrhouse, MC, 4th KOYLI, KIA, 9/10/1917

Have photos of both.

[stiletto_33853]

Chris,
Here is another pair of brothers, both Drivers in the R.F.A. "C" Battery, 52nd Brigade buried alongside one another in La Targette British Cemetery, Neuville St Vaast. The Sheridon brothers both died 28/5/18

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[stiletto_33853]

F. Sheridon

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[stiletto_33853]

M. Sheridon

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•  M._Sheridon.JPG   74.36K   0 downloads

[phil1963]

I went to Holland on a war tour and the guide took us to a cemetery near where they crossed the bridge at Arnhem and in there were two Dutch twins who were killed within 15 minutes of eachother.

[stiletto_33853]

Another two brothers
P/1257  Rifleman  Albert POZZI, 16th Battalion, The Rifle Brigade,3/9/16
Somme

P/1438  Rifleman Frederick William POZZI, 16th Battalion, The Rifle Brigade, 3/9/16, Somme.

Andy

[Steve Mattock]

Two more brothers:

Gerald Wilkinson - Lance Corporal 15/982, 15th Bn., West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own). Killed in action 1st July 1916.  Commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial, France, Pier and Face 2 A 2 C and 2 D. Gerald Wilkinson was born in York, enlisted in Leeds and was a resident of Ulleskelf.  

Reginald Wilkinson - Private 15/984, 15th Bn., West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own). Killed in action, 1st July 1916.  Commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial, France, Pier and Face 2 A 2 C and 2 D. Reginald Wilkinson was born in Heck, Hensall, Yorkshire, enlisted in Leeds and was a resident of Ulleskelf.  

Both are commemorated on the Kirkby Wharfe and Ulleskelf War Memorial, which is on the wall of Kirkby Wharfe (St. John The Baptist) church.

[Audax]

Rifleman Henry Oscar Mullanny C/1320 16th (Service) Battalion The King's Royal Rifle Corps (C.L.B.)
Rifleman John Arthur Mullanny C/1403 16th (Service) Battalion The King's Royal Rifle Corps (C.L.B.)

Both listed as 'Died' 15th July 1916.  (the date of the attack on High Wood)

Remembered with honour on the Thiepval Memorial.

The sons of John & Eva Mullanny of Bradford, Yorkshire









Also remembering their friends - Rifleman Arthur J Hankin, C/1292 16/KRRC (CLB) and Cpl Wilson (Harold) Hartley C/6900 18/KRRC

[Steve Mattock]

Two more brothers who died on the same day, 28th April 1917:

Jackson, Hugo Antony Launcelot Ceadda

Jackson, George Olaf Damien Ceadda

Both were serving as Lieutenants in the 10th Battaalion, Canadian Infantry (Alberta Regiment).

Hugo is buried in Ecoivres Military Cemetery, Mont-St. Eloi and George in Aubigny Communal Cemetery Extension.

Additional information from CWGC:

Son of the late Rev. Joseph and Elizabeth Jackson, of Holy Trinity Vicarage, Bampton, Oxon. By the deaths of G. O. D. C. Jackson and his brother Lt. H. A. L. C. Jackson, of the same Regiment, on the same day and in the same action, this branch of the family becomes extinct.

[Fromelles]

Here are some more -


66 Pte Choat, Archibald Percy 'A' Co., 32nd Bn KIA 20 Jul 16 age 18 of Clarence Park, South Australia
67 Pte Choat, Raymond Hadden 'A' Co., 32nd Bn KIA 20 Jul 16 age 24 of Clarence Park, South Australia

a third brother...

68 Choat, Wesley Paul 'A' Co., 32nd Bn WIA & POW 20 Jul 16 age 20, of Clarence Park, South Australia.

Wesley Choat escaped from Germany with a comrade on his second attempt (5 Dec 17), arriving in Holland on 9 Dec 17. According to his mother they arrived home as 'Heroes' on the 6 Jul 18.


Dan

[Chris Martin]

Here are two more brothers killed in action on the same day, though not in the same unit.

Captain Eric Ayre of the Newfoundland Regiment was killed in action 1 July 1916.  His brother Captain Bernard Ayre was killed the same day while serving in the Norfolk Regiment.

To bring it one step further, their cousins 2nd Lieutenant Gerald Ayre and 2nd Lieutenant Wilfred Ayre were also killed in action 1 July 1916 while serving in the Newfoundland Regiment.

[frev]

An article on ‘Men of Pozieres’ in the recent AWM Magazine “Wartime”, mentioned the POTTER family from Wilmington, South Australia – who lost 3 sons in one day, in the 52nd Battalion’s last attack at Mouquet Farm.


A bit of checking found that these brothers were:

POTTER, Edward Wilfred, 3738, 52nd Bn, AIF - age 25 (Mason)

POTTER, Hurtle Francis Constable, 3740, 52nd Bn, AIF - age 22 (Mason)

POTTER, Thomas James Albert, 3739, 52nd Bn, AIF - age 31 (Wood Yard Manager)

The CWGC have officially listed Edward’s & Hurtle’s deaths as the 3rd September 1916 & their brother Thomas’ death as the 4th September 1916.  Hurtle & Thomas were originally reported as Missing in Action, and it wasn’t until a Court of Inquiry held 24/4/17 that they were declared KIA.

Their records show that they all died in the same battle, between the 3rd & 4th September.  Edward & Thomas are commemorated on the Villers-Bretonneux Memorial, and Hurtle is buried at the Courcelette British Cemetery.


They are 3 of 4 sons born in Yongala, SA to Benjamin (also a Mason) & Eliza POTTER, who all enlisted in the AIF in 1915, and embarked together on RMS Malwa 2/12/15 with the 12th reinforcements of the 12th Battalion.  [the 4th being Ralph Victor, 3741 (Carpenter)]
In the March of 1916, they were all allotted to the (new) 52nd Battalion (C Coy).

[After the loss of his 3 brothers, Ralph knocked back a safer job and stayed with their unit, until he was wounded 29/3/17.  In hospital in England, he applied for discharge on the grounds that he’d lost 3 brothers, was sole provider for his parents & sister, and now that America was in the war, they might feel more inclined to let him go.  The AIF granted his return to Australia in August 1917.  A couple of months after his arrival, his mother died.  Ralph was still alive in 1961.]

[frev]

[Deleted 'double-up' post & added the following]:

In 1921 Ralph writes the following:  “I, 3741 Cpl R.V. Potter, 52nd Btn, was with the other three brothers in Mouquet Farm where they were all killed.  3739 Pte T.J.A. & 3738 Pte E.W. both got across sunken road into objectives.  I saw only E W. when I took up supplies but different ones told me T.J.A. got into trench but was wounded & could never get any further definite information.  Have heard since I got home that he was left in dugout wounded while Fritz temporarily retook possession of trench & when our boys got it back the dugout was blown up.  But I cannot speak to the truth of this……….”

Cheers, Frev