38 replies to this topic

[Ken Devitt]

Hello all,

Other than attempting to charge theGPO, sent in to break up a crowd or simply trotting by. Is there anyone with real evidence as to what actually happened to Henry Shepherd and his comrades in Sackville Street, Dublin on 24.4.1916.

Don't let me down.

Ken

[Glosters]

Shortly after the trouble began a troop of lancers came along from the direction of the North Wall, escorting 4 or 5 wagons of munitions which were being conveyed to the magazine in the Phoenix Park. They crossed from the Eden quay side of Sackville street and passed up Bachelor's Walk, knowing nothing of what was happening in the neighbourhood. A number of them subsequently returned to the city, and came into Sackville street from the north end. As soon as they got in front of the Post Office they were met with a volley from the occupants of that building. The shots came from men who had got on the roof, from which position they had a great advantage over the lancers. Four of the latter were shot, and the horse of one of them fell dead on the street. The dead bodies of these men were taken to Jervis street hospital. The Lancers withdrew to the Parnell Monument, where they remained for a short while before returning to barracks.

Ref: 1916 The Rebellion Handbook (published by Irish Times 1916)

Steve

[Ken Devitt]

Many thanks Steve,

Yes, I have heard that story also but that raises the following questions for me.

Would reserves in training have been given escort duties for munitions?

If they were unaware of what was going on why did they return to Sackville Street?

On whose orders would they have returned and what were the orders?

Would the civil authorities have been in control at this early stage?

Perhaps I'm just chasing a shadow.

Ken

[lenny]

Hi There
I have just come across a photograph of my Grandfather.  At the time I believe he was in the 12th Lancers, stationed in Dublin I think.  The inscription on the back says " Ciss, (his wife) a photo of a few of the next draft, your loving husband, Harry.  The photo is dated 22.6.15.  It shows a group of thirty men. They are all standing outside of what appears to be an army type of building, perhaps someone might recognise it?  My Grandfather was 24 years old at that time.  If it is of any interest I shall try to get it on the site.  What I need is a younger person who is more able to convert the photo into sparks for this damned machine, or instructions in plain English and of not more than one syllable at a time.

Lenny

[Ken Devitt]

Lenny,
I fully empathise with you. If at all possible I would very much appreciate seeing the photograph. I wonder would the building be Marlborough Barracks?

Ken

[curranl]

Hello All,
            The following is from The Easter Rising by Michael Foy and Brian Barton:

Half an hour after Pearse read the Proclamation the Post Office garrison was in action in what is often described inaccurately as the 'Charge of the Lancers' down O'Connell Street. The cavalry had in fact been dispatched from Marlborough Barracks to investigate reported disturbances in O'Connel Street and were simply trotting down from the northern end, completely unaware of the danger ahead. When they reached Nelson's Pillar the waiting Volunteers in the Post Office opened fire, killing three soldiers and fatally wounding another. One horse was also killed and its putrefying body lay in O' Connell Street till the end of the Rising.

The Lancers escorting the ammunition were a different group. Here is what the above authors say about them:

As Robinson's party attempted to force a way into Hopkins a party of Lancers, escorting an ammunition train, came along Eden Quay, having got so far only because the guards protecting the ammunition stocks (i.e. the Volunteers ammo.) in Liberty Hall were only permitted to respond to a British attack. Even at O'Connell Street, where they sneered at the Volunteers, they did not grasp what was happening, and they moved on, to be cut down shortly at the Four Courts.

The Forum, let you down????

Regards,

Liam.

[Ken Devitt]

Not in the least Liam,

With lads like you and others out there, I have little doubt I will be informed. Just out of curiosity, why would Lancers be sent from Marlborough Barracks to "invistigate," when that would have been the remit of the D.M.P.

Many thanks,

Ken

[lenny]

Hi there

I have found my young person to convert the photograph into sparks, he gave me instructions in plain English and in words not exceeding one syllable.  I'm still none the wiser.  Is it my age?  However, I digress.  He told me to press this button, if it doesn't happen, we will work on it!

Lenny

[lenny]

O.K folks

How do I post a photograph on this thread?

All contributions and bright ideas gratefully received!

Lenny

[oggie]

Thanks for starting the post Ken and to everyone for the information on the Lancers in Dublin.

I agree that they were patrolling and did not charge down the street as the horses would have bolted when shot at and it would only appear that they were charging. To charge a fortified building on horseback seems strange but then again the Sherwood Foresters were sent across a heavily defended bridge in waves and suffered appalling losses!

Henry Shepherd was one of the Lancers who was killed outside the Post Office. My great grandfather was a sargeant in the 12th Lancers and served 22 years (eventully as a cook) and was then discharged into the reserves (6th Reserve Cavalry Regiment-Eastern Cavalry Division) on the 16/01/16 after surviving India (Enteric Fever), the Boer War and the Western Front. He then appears to have been based in Waterford (pay book entry) and then turns up in Dublin on Easter Monday (bad timing/unlucky!).

Based on other information it seems that the four that were killed that day were;

Sjt Henry Shepherd 6th Reserve Cavalry Regiment 24/04/1916 16125 (orginal service no 3762)
Sjt James David Arthur Headland 5th Lancers 24/04/1916 5165
Pte F.Hughes 12th (Prince of Wales's Royal) Lancers 24/04/1916 8227  
Pte Arthur James Scarlett 5th Lancers ("B" Sqdn.) 24/04/1916 6297

Other lancers killed during the rising were;
Pte James Blundell 12th (Prince of Wales's Royal) Lancers 02/05/1916 6976
Pte Patrick Leen 5th Lancers 01/05/1916 GS/16095
Pte A.Newland 12th (Prince of Wales's Royal) Lancers 02/05/1916 5937
Pte Clarence Osborne 5th Lancers 27/04/1916 4130
Pte William Walker 5th Lancers 27/04/1916 2743

I am led to believe that the 6th Reserve were a training regiment for the 9th and 12th Lancers, so the connection to the 5th can only be guessed at. Perhaps it was Shepherd and Hughes that were killed on the 24th and Blundell and Newland died of wounds later? I have found Henry's original service record for 3762 but wonder why he was given a new number for the reserves? Is this usual as no mention is made on his original record? I also wonder if there is any information on the other lancers?

The information collected so far is fantastic and a photo would be wonderful (just joined so not sure how to post photos yet but will look into it!

[Ciaran Byrne]

The 5th Lancers were part of this Reserve Cavalry Regiment along with the 12th. The 9th Lancers were not connected to this regiment at all.
The reason Lancers were called into action was that these were the nearest on the scene. The barracks in question was Marlborough Barracks the the Irish police called here first to send out as many mounted and dismounted troops as possible.
The troops escorting the munitions had to make a sharp exit and were held up in a pharmacy for four days, guarding the ammo against the rebels.

[Gunner Bailey]

The Forum, let you down????

History books get things wrong all the time. I expect the consensus view of the forum will probably get it right.

Gunner Bailey

[Ken Devitt]

The 5th Lancers were part of this Reserve Cavalry Regiment along with the 12th. The 9th Lancers were not connected to this regiment at all.
The reason Lancers were called into action was that these were the nearest on the scene. The barracks in question was Marlborough Barracks the the Irish police called here first to send out as many mounted and dismounted troops as possible.
The troops escorting the munitions had to make a sharp exit and were held up in a pharmacy for four days, guarding the ammo against the rebels.

Hello Ciaran,

Thanks for the efforts. According to Coogan a Colonel Hammond ordered the lancers into Sackville Street but for what purpose? Would you by any chance have any information on the colonel?

Very interesting information so far.

Ken

[Ciaran Byrne]

Hello Ken, the information I have is from the History of the Royal Irish Lancers 1698 - 1922 by Harvey and Cape. It states that a number of attacks had taken place in Dublin and a policeman and some civillians had been killed. The police at first contacted Marlborough Barracks at around 12.15pm and said could they send as many men to Sackville Street due to a disturbance.
I don't have any inforamtion on Colonel Hammond. The colonel of the 6th RCR was a Colonel Kirk. He wasn't present in the Barracks at the time, he was at a race meeting with the adjutant and the Regimental Sergeant Major at the Fairyhouse racecourse.

[Ken Devitt]

Wonderful information Ciaran,

It can be assumed therefore, that the military were unaware of the gravity of the situation as they were contacted within minutes of the outbreak of the "disturbance". As the cavalry barracks is only about fifteen from Sackville St. it is understandable why they would have been contacted so soon. One can only assume at this stage that colonel Hammond was not a cavalry officer.

Hopefully there is more to come,

Ken

[Ken Devitt]

Ciaran,

I was taking photographs at Grangegorman today and noticed a few headstones with 10h Reserve Regiment of Cavalry and dates between 24.4.16 and 27.4.16

Would they be of any significance to the topic?

PS I wonder if PH Hammond -Royal Artillery- may be the man?

Ken

[oggie]

I found the following information;

Dublin 1916- Robert McHugh (from Ernie O'Malley's autobiography)
I walked up the street. Behind Nelson's Pillar lay dead horses, some with their feet in the air, others lying flat. "The Lancers horses" an old man said, although I had not spoken. " These fellows", pointing with his right hand toward the GPO, "are not going to be frightened by a troop of Lancers. They mean business" Seated on a dead horse was a woman.

Ko Ko's Easter Week- Sir Henry Lytton (from Wandering Minstrel)
Looking back to those anxious days one can recall many strange and sad sights. It was exceedingly tragic, for example, on the day that the trouble started to see three or four Lancers come riding down the street. Of course , they and their horses made a fine target for a volley of bullets fired from rifles that could not be seen but could be heard barking out and spitting death. The whole of the little cavalcade, except one horse, was shot to the ground, and I remember seeing the animal standing helplessly by the soldier who had fallen from its back, pushing its nose against the lifeless body, wondering why its master did not get up and remount. While it stood there it, too was shot and fell to the ground dead. The terrible little heap remained there for many days, it being impossible for anyone to go out and get the soldiers to bury them, or to remove the carcases of the dead horses.

Ireland a History-Robert Kee
The first victory was over a party of Lancers jingling down O'Connell Street, apparently unaware of what was happening. Some Volunteers assigned to the GPO were still on their way there as the firing broke out. They noticed that the Lancers seemed to be taken wholly by surprise. Four Lancers were killed.

[Ken Devitt]

Sincere thanks for the contribution Oggie,

Today I photographed the headstones on the graves of the four young men, who just happened to be "jingling" down -Sackville- O'Connell St. It would appear from my sources that there was more interest in the horses than the young lads.

Ken

[Ciaran Byrne]

Yes, the 10th Reserve Cav Reg was affilitated with the 4th Queens Own Hussars and 8th Royal Irish Hussars as well as some 2nd line Yeomanry regiments.
They were told to mobilise on the day and around 1,000 troops travelled down by train from The Curragh in Kildare to Dublin by train.
I would imagine the graves you photographed were belonged to one of these regiments. Do you have names? I can do a look up for you if you want.

[Ken Devitt]

Ciaran,

I will check them out over the weekend and send you copies for your files, if you want them. Quite a few Hussars buried there also.

Thanks for all,
Ken

[Ken Devitt]

These are the graves of the two serjeants killed in Dublin on 24.4.1916, Sjt. Sherpherd and Headland. The headstones were erected by members of the serjeants mess. Nice to think that after ninety years they are now remembered. I will follow up with the two Privates Hughes and Scarlett.

Ken
The inscription on Sjt. Shepherd' headstone reads:

Sacred to the memory of
No. 16125
Serg.t  H. Shepherd
12th Royal Lancers
Att. 6th Res Regt. Cavalry
Killed in action during the Irish Rebellion
24th April 1916
Erected by members of the sergents mess
6th Res. Regt. Cavalry

Attached Files

•  KIF_0471_edited.JPG   38.93K   3 downloads
•  KIF_0469_edited.JPG   44.04K   2 downloads

[Ken Devitt]

In 1916 I'm sure the four soldiers and their families believed they were in a safe place. Seeing their graves at Grangegorman brings humanity to history. I would love to think that these photographs mean something to somebody out there.

Ken

Attached Files

•  KIF_0464_edited.JPG   38.01K   1 downloads
•  KIF_0467_edited.JPG   34.03K   2 downloads

[oggie]

Thanks Ken for the photo of Henry and the others headstones, I was touched.

It really adds something to the story of someone's life by seeing their resting place, especially as he and the other sergeant have personalised gravestones. Perhaps next time I am at Kew I will look up the three other lancers records if I have time.

I can remember my grandad (his son) telling me that Henry was very unlucky and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He would usually tell me this through gritted teeth. I’m sure he would have appreciated your efforts as he never revisited Ireland with his mother (who was from Ballincollig/Cork).

How did you find out about the collection for the headstones? And was it usual for personalised headstones as most CWGC graves have a standard stone with a crest?

Could you do me one more favour and transcribe the text on the grave as I cannot read the full text and was it possible to get a higher resolution photo e-mailed(if you have it)?

[Ken Devitt]

Thanks Oggie,
There is no promlem in sending you a higher res. photo if you send me your email address. I have also photographed the graves of the other lads who were killed, which I will send if you wish. Recognition of their duty is the least they deserve, albeit that they didn't die at the Somme, Ypres or Gallipoli.
Very kind regards,
Ken

[Graeme Heavey]

Pals what a thread-full of emotion and history. Having Irish blood somewhere in my little toe ( what do you expect with a name like Heavey!!?) I still struggle to understand the thought process of some of the IRA fellows, although I also understand they wanted us out. I always feel great sadness that some of the Irish soldiers in France were hunted down and killed by their own countrymen when they came back, such tragedy.
The blokes graves are a fitting memorial. Long may they be remembered. They did their duty.