51 replies to this topic

[stevebecker]

Cheers Mate,

Nice indeed.

Was there any thing as to why or how Horrie Short was wounded the same day he arrived on Anzac.

Was he involved in the Hill 60 show or was he just hit by shrapnel getting off the boat.

Concidering the time he was hit and the formation of D Sqn/9 LHR are the same date as was the fighting at Hill 60 it seams all together some how.

Cheers

S.B

[Bill Woerlee]

Steve

Bear in mind Grant had just arrived at Gallipoli and almost immediately moved up to Hill 60. "The 9th Regiment less D Squadron is at present in No 6 Section under General Cox and are not expected back until the 4th September 1915. " WD 30 August 1915. So while both units were at Hill 60, they were not together as one unit until later.

Where Short was wounded is a matter of conjecture. Only two places I can think of - one is on the beach and the next is in the line at Hill 60. In between would have been "reasonably" protected so he would have been hit there only through the worst of luck. Since it was a chest wound, I am more inclined to believe it occurred on the beach where there were no entrenchments thereby exposing his thorax to injury.

Cheers

Bill

[stevebecker]

Thanks Mate,

Yes thats my thinking also, he must have been hit almost getting off the boat, as the record doesn't say he was wounded in action only evac to the hosp ship with a chest wound.

Can you confirm the Sqn, Gavin Shuttleworth was ToS 2nd Nov 1915 on Anzac and was that the same Sqn he was killed with in Aug 1916.

Cheers

S.B

[Bill Woerlee]

Steve

Unbelievable but I was looking at his file not more than an hour ago because of his Romani connection - he was killed on the same day Antill got his shipping orders.

A Squadron.

Cheers

Bill

[stevebecker]

Bill,

Mate before I put on my jacket and medals and go off to the march I was wondering about this bloke.

Albert Gordon Simpson 765 3R/9 LHR.

His record shows he went to hosp while waiting in Egypt due to an injury to his hand, this lead to his RTA and relistment with the 4th LHR and service in 12Bn AIF and wounding in France.

But one of his Hosp cards in Egypt show he was in B Sqn there?

The records don't show Anzac service so how did he get in B Sqn if he didn't join his regt or did he?

Can you help with any ideas about this bloke and was he in B Sqn?

Cheers

S.B

[Bill Woerlee]

Steve

G'day mate

Enjoy the march. Sometime later today I will have the answer.

Cheers

Bill

[Bill Woerlee]

Steve

G'day mate

You are going to slap yourself on the head with this one mate and then say: "Of course!"

B Squadron he was - no problems.

However, not B Squadron 9th Light Horse Regiment but B Squadron, 3rd Light Horse Training Regiment - A Squadron being for the 8th, B for the 9th and C for the 10th.

Yeah I know, had me going for a tick too.

Cheers

Bill

[stevebecker]

Mate,

Thanks muchly, no old mates down the RSL (RAAC) but had a drink with some old blokes from about my time. Also had a beer with my sisters boy just back from his second tour in Iraq.

Back to out question, I thought about that (B Sqn /3 LHTR) but these Training/Reserve Regts hadn't been formed at that time.

As he went to hosp early 1915 and RTA in July 1915 this would seem unlikly as these unit weren't form until late 1915 but mostly early 1916.

The 3R departed either Melbourne on the "Mashobra" 29th Jan 1915 or the "Pera" 8th Feb 1915 he would have arrived Egypt around Feb/March 1915, he went to hosp in March and remained there untill RTA in July.

My two ideas are these;

He may have been TOS in Egypt (B Sqn) but being sent to hosp and remaining there and was Admin placed in the depot unit of the 9th LHR when the Regt went to Anzac in May 1915.

Also he of cause possilbity never made the regt but was allocated to B Sqn but not ToS while in hosp then passed to the depot unit when the Regt went to Anzac.

I hope you can follow my thinking here.

Cheers

S.B

[Bill Woerlee]

Steve

G'day mate

You're right. I had a look through the RO's for the Details and the regimental structure was kept there. I suspect, as you have, they were TOS to the squadron at Heliopolis. On that basis, thanks for the lead as I had no squadron for this fellow.

Cheers

Bill

[Bill Woerlee]

Steve

G'day mate

Just wondering if you have come across this rather elusive fellow, Second Lieutenant AN McBrown. I have no idea as to where he came from or where he went to or even if that is a real name.

However, here is a copy from the 9th Light Horse Regiment Routine Order 393 Dated 4th July 1916

 PA250036aa1.jpg   75.41K   10 downloads

You will see that he is taken on strength of the 9th Light Horse Regiment and then posted to the 2nd Double Squadron.

I cannot seem to trace him anywhere. He is not on the NAA records, AWM records, NZ records, British records or any other database that I have tried. This is the last roll of the dice - I am hoping beyond all hope that you nay have come across him in your travels.

Cheers

Bill

[stevebecker]

Bill,

See my reply on other site but to those that may not,  he is;

Lt Arthur Norman McLeod Brown 15R/9 LHR.

He was seconded to the 3rd LH MGS and later wounded at Beersheba in that airattack.

This led to his being RTA from his wounds

Cheers

S.B

[Bill Woerlee]

Steve

Thanks mate. It's that McBrown that threw me. New eyes are usually clear eyes.

Cheers

Bill

[Bill Woerlee]

Steve

G'day mate

Here's the map detailing the capture of Gilbert, 22 March 1917.

 22march1917b.jpg   95.77K   11 downloads

Hope this helps

Cheers

Bill

[stevebecker]

Thanks Bill,


One does wonder where their suports were?

Did the Sqn commander suffer over this as per the later RO which told all about the Turkish cavalry you quoted on the other site.

Cheers

S.B

[Bill Woerlee]

Steve

C Squadron alternated between Parsons and Siekmann, both of whom never had a wild military career during the Great War. Both were brave and capable men but neither noted for anything more than doing the basics. Don't forget, it was Parsons who created the conditions for the mutiny of 1919 which might give you the scope of the man as a leader.

In this case you can almost hear the mind ticking over - wide road, easy terrain, squadrons stretched to the limit, suck up to the boss with the most adventurous patrols etc etc. I'm not 100% sure but I think the Squadron Leader at this time was Parsons.

Here's the RO Memo on this affair.

 24031917p3aa2.jpg   86.73K   13 downloads

No blame is attached but no career advanced as a consequence of blame being attached. This is a scathing note from Scott even though it is signed by Wilkinson. The aim is to iterate that which everyone else knew but for the sake of a few men who ignored the basics of their training, failed to do.

The enthusiasm for this sort of enterprise came from a couple days before when Turkish cavalry were encountered in troop numbers by small patrols - these scattered quickly leaving the impression that the Turkish cavalry were not up to the task. This hubris spread throughout the Regiment - one small victory made them 10 feet tall and bullet proof. Contempt for the Turks produced this disaster. This was the last time they allowed hubris to come in between themselves and the Turkish cavalry.

Cheers

Bill

[stevebecker]

Cheers bill,

Yes its a daming report indeed.

Its one of those that can and are often quoted by other nations about their own troops.

Concidering the strenght and horses of the 3rd Turkish Cavalry Division it show that they can at times do the impossible, it says alot about them.

S.B

[Reinhard]

Hi Bill,

there is an article in the Dorset Life Magazine April 2007 called 'The Dorset Diggers' which mentions a Trooper Colin Crossley who enlisted in the 9th Light Horse. It also mentioned other soldiers serving in other Light Horse units.

Reinhard

[Bill Woerlee]

Reinhard

G'day mate

Thanks for that note.

You will find that Colin Crossley happened to be in Oz when the war broke out. His address in Dorset was:

No 1 Alahalim Villas
Victoria Park
Dorchester
Dorset

His mum, Mrs Alice Mary Crossley lived there. Perhaps pop around for a cup of tea.

Crossley was originally assigned to C Squadron - an unusual circumstance since he signed up in South Australia rather than Victoria - the source of men for C Squadron and it was with C Squadron he went to Gallipoli with the 3rd LH Bde. Eventually he was transferred to A Squadron.

Sadly for him, he suffered a gunshot wound through his right thigh when at Magdhaba which turned septic requiring amputation. As a gardener, this would have been devastating. When he enlisted he was working on the fruit blocks of Ascot Park, a market garden suburb of Adelaide. The amputation occurred on 15 Feb 1917.  He died a year later almost to the day on 18 Feb 1918.

The other sadness is that he died after being discharged as medically unfit and so never qualified for all the trappings that go with a similar death while still being in the forces. No scroll, memorial or even CWGC grave. There is real pathos in his mother signing for all the medals that her son earned.

We will remember him.

Cheers

Bill

[stevebecker]

Bill,

I take it you mean he died on the 18th Feb 1918?

Can you say why he died or where he was buried.

S.B

[Bill Woerlee]

Steve

G'day mate

Thanks for that and post corrected.

No idea as to burial but I would guess that it was in the West Terrace Cemetery and with luck, the AIF cemetery. However, there is nothing on his file to indicate any of this.

Cheers

Bill

[Trevor Carroll]

Bill Woerlee, on 02 April 2006 - 02:34 AM, said:

Mates

As most people know I have done a great deal of work on the 9th ALHR and am on the final leg of finishing off a book on the subject. As I have collected a library of information on this subject - about 10 gigs on the computer - I am happy to share this information.

Cheers

Bill

Bill   How is the book on the 9th LH horse going?

Trevor Carroll

[Makora]

Arthur Hulme Gott  360  C Q M S



Hi



I know a little about   Arthur Hulme Gott .360. Enlisted in the 9^Th Light Horse A.I.F



Enlisted (joined)   6/10/1914 in Melbourne Victoria



Private     6/10/1914    to    C.Q.M.S     1/11/1914



Served originally in the ,Mounted Infantry Bechuanaland Field Force (1897),he was originally from South Africa, born in Swelendam Cape Province



Died in 21st .General Hospital, Alexandria   , (Dysentery)



I must compliment the Australian National archives on wonderful service



Now the question where would he have served  



Regards  R Boyd   Capetown  SA

[daisy7]

A relative of mine was in the 9thLHfrom 29/8/15 to31/8/15 prior to transfer to 2ndLH. He was Captain (later Major) Dr. John Macdonald RAMC) Do you have any details of him? He was awarded O.B.E in1919 for service rendered and was also invalided out 31/8/15 with enteric fever

[stevebecker]

Mate,

I record this on your man;

MacDONALD John Dr Capt 11 LHR RHQ RMO att 9 LHR 8-15 att 8 LHR 8-15 to RMO RHQ/02 LHR 8-15 (G) att 1 AAuxH UK 10-15 to AIF depots Weymouth UK prom Maj 4-17 OBE - reason not stated to NME UK medical

Doctor 32 Ipswich Qld and NOK Newformore Inverness Scotland

Enlisted 26-3-15 RTA 12-3-20

When the 11 LHR arrived on Anzac in Aug 1915 it with the 12 LHR were broken up and the Sqns were attacked to LH Regt's from the same state. ie units  from Queensland;
A Sqn to the 2 LHR, B Sqn to 5 LHR, and C Sqn to 9 LHR the RHQ personal went to the 3 LH Bde HQ and as such to units in the 3rd LH Bde, being a doctor he was passed around to different regts as and when needed.

Bill maybe able to add more to this man.

Cheers

S.B

[daisy7]

Oh,that's brilliant! Thank you so much