235 replies to this topic

[Julian Whippy]

Several other greats from Charlton were wounded in action, worthy of metion

Frank "Bronco" Burton, who stood over 6 foot tall, was a mexican born full-back signed from the Hammers
who served as Sgt F Burton GS/47737 in the Royal Fusiliers, first with the 23rd Sportsmans then to the 1st Battalion. He served at Ypres, Somme and Cambrai and was wounded 6 times and awarded the Croix de Guerre. He then went onto play 107 times for Charlton !

With Charlton recently enjoying a series of Centenery events celebrating its sporting icons it is worth remembering those that put aside their sport to serve their country.

The last photo is from one of our recent "Soccer on the Somme" Trips, a game or two of five a side, and the battlefields,,

Ps I am actually a Hammers fan, but the article is well worth the input !

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[harribobs]

great stuff!

here's the 8th manchesters (ardwicks) football team

[bernardmcilwaine]

pte mcguire age 26,leaves a widow and family,he was a former player for man city,while under training he turned out for grimsby town,i havent been able to find out his full name or regt.
l/cpl a.robinson was the blackburn goalkeeper,i dont know if he was killed but his brother pte samuel robinson 20428 gren guards of 69 oxford st,old trafford was,bernard

[bernardmcilwaine]

As a result of a similar (but different thread) I e-mailed the FA museum at Preston asking whether the FA had ever compiled a roll of honour. I thought you might be interested in their helpful reply.

"Hello Andrew,

As far as I know the FA never drew up a roll of honour. Perhaps the reason was that so many footballers (professionals, semi professionals and amateurs), hundreds of thousands, served in the forces and thousands died, how long would you make the list? The FA did commission a large metal plaque, around 1922, which was put on the wall of their HQ in London. When they moved to new offices recently, it was given to us to keep. I attach a photograph of it being unveiled by Gordon Taylor of the PFA about 3 years ago.

Perhaps individual football clubs had a roll of honour, but I doubt whether these would be easy to find. There was a Football Relief Fund set up by the FA later in the war and this continued to give out grants to injured ex footballers or widows through the 1920s and into the 1930s. We find these listed in the printed FA minutes which we have copies of.

Perhaps you could ask the FA library in London (David Barber) if he has heard of a Roll of Honour or contact the Professional Footballers Association (PFA) in Manchester who may have something. A long shot I am afraid. Let me know if you find anything. I would be interested.

Regards,
Peter Holme
Reseach Officer"

In my reply I shall point Peter in the direction of this excellent thread.

andrew/everybody,why dont we compile a roll of honour,it doesnt have to be a serious searching of records,merely post any footballers you come across during your research,we are the only group who can do this,because the only way to find them,is in the newspapers,most of us scour them in our own searches so its not gonna disrupt us,the museum dont have any names,but we have found quite a few without even breaking a sweat,bernard

[Roger D]

I'm currently researching the 22 men associated with Dulwich Hamlet FC, an amateur side in 1914, who were killed during the war. None of the guys were pros or ex pros but our experience backs up earlier comments about the amateur sides being vulnerable.

Our league, the Isthmian, packed up very quickly once war was declared though for the first season Dulwich played on in friendlies - albeit with hugely under strength teams as a lot of our men volunteered. The next season it was decided to all but close the club however early in 1915 a RFA brigade had been formed at Camberwell and were based at a council depot opposite our ground. The army soon had their eyes on our ground, luckily the CO of the Brigade was the local MP who happened to be a good mate of our Chairman (an ex local councillor) and pre war a frequent visitor to the club. As such a loan arrangement was agreed in which the army borrowed it but did not requisition it, in return we arranged scratch sides to play army teams or loaned the ground for free to army teams who wanted to play another army side. (We refused if they wanted to play civvies.) The 1919 club hand book decribes horses tied to the pitch railings, the stand used as at tack room and the pitch used for drill exercises. All in all the army and the football club seem to have got on pretty well, though the club did make frequent complaints about ginger beer bottles bought from the tuck shop in the stand being smashed on the pitch. (One of our top pre war players, he was also a local councillor, was involved in the Brigade and died of wounds in 1916, Bmbr Tom Rose. Ironically given some of the postings in this thread he was a Grimsby lad but I doubt he ever played for them as the Hamlet would not have allowed an ex pro near the place in those days.)

War and the Hamlet seem to go hand in hand. One, though not the only, reason they emerged as the top team in the area was due to Dulwich FC being decimated by players volunteering in the Boer War. Hamlet muddled through WW1 by putting out scratch teams, often consisting of local kids who also kept the ground in a decent state of repair through the war years. They got experience beyond their years as a consequence and in 1919 the Hamlet won both the F.A. Amateur Cup - effectively the FA Cup for amateur teams, and the Isthmian League with a team based on these kids, now men. (One of them, Edgar Kail, was capped 4 times by the full England side, one of two Hamlet players to earn full caps on top of numerous amateur internationals.) In the lead up to WW2 we had a highly talented team, largely youngsters but many lost their best football playing years to the war and four, including two very highly regarded players, died. The club have arguably never really recovered from that blow.

***
Edited to add that Hull FC, actually Hull Rugby League team, put up a memorial to ex player Jack Harrison VC outside the KC Stadium. There was a Jack Harrison Memorial Fund that paid for it which had an internet presence if anyone is interested it may be worth seeing if that site still exists.

[cockney tone]

Pal's,

some really interesting posts on this thread, well here is my 'tenpenneth' then;

Three players from the 'Mighty' Leyton Orient;

CSM Richard McFadden MM. Died of wounds 23/10/16. (142 appearances, 68 goals)

Private William Jonas. KIA 27/7/16. (74 appearances, 23 goals)

Private George Scott. Died of wounds 16/8/16. (213 appearances, 34 goals)

For those interested have a look at the Book Review on the Forum regarding a relevant book 'They Took The Lead' (The story of Clapton Orient's major contribution to the Footballers Battalion in the Great War)

Regards,
Scottie.

[John Duncan]

You might want to read Macrae Battalion an excellent book about the 16th Battalion Royal Scots. 13 players from a number of Scottish Clubs (mainly Hearts) died on the first day of the Somme this is from the Edinburgh Evening News

"IT’S a far cry from the roar of the old terracing at Tynecastle to the quiet French village of Contalmaison.

But a memorial about to be built in the Picardy village will commemorate Edinburgh’s "forgotten battalion", the 16th Royal Scots, among whose first recruits were 13 Heart of Midlothian players as well as footballers from other Scottish teams, many of whom were struck down during the carnage of the first day of the Battle of the Somme."

Here is a link to the memorial site

http://www.heartsgreatwarmemorial.org.uk/index.html

Tells you everythong you need to know.

[Gibbo]

Following on from John's post, the Hearts players who died in the War were (killed in action unless otherwise stated):

McCrae's Battalion (16th Royal Scots)
Jimmy Boyd 3/8/16
Duncan Currie 1/7/16
Ernie Ellis 1/7/16
Tom Gracie died of leukaemia on 23/10/15 whilst serving in the army
Harry Wattie 1/7/16

Jimmy Scott of Raith Rovers was also killed on 1/7/16 whilst serving with McCrae's.

Other units
John Allan 9th Royal Scots 22/4/17
James Speedie 7th Cameron Highlanders 25/9/15

Two other Hearts players suffered early deaths as a result of being gassed during the war. Paddy Crossan died on 24/4/33 at the age of 39. Bob Mercer was forced  to retire as a result of his wartime injuries & became a coach. On 23/4/26, he was in charge of a Hearts team playing a friendly against his local club, Selkirk, where his career had begun. He decided to play himself but tragically collapsed & died on the field. He was 37.

[Clive Temple]

Three Bristol Rovers players, mentioned in the book of the clubs history.

John Hardman

Harry Phillips

Walter Gerrish (probably AKA John W. J. Gerrish).

Name: GERRISH, JOHN W. J.
Initials: J W J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Gloucestershire Regiment
Unit Text: 12th Bn.
Age: 31
Date of Death: 08/05/1917
Service No: 27903
Additional information: Son of John William James Gerrish; husband of Agnes Lily May Hunter (formerly Gerrish), of 1, Avonside Tannery Cottages, Feeder Rd., Bristol.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 6.
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

[mcderms]

Apologies if this has been posted already but the info on the NAM exhibition is HERE. According to his page on my club's site (the glorious Birmingham City FC), Gordon Taylor of the PFA opened a museum to layers killed in WW1 but I am darned if I can find it. Article is HERE

[Stuart Basson]

Walter Gerrish (probably AKA John W. J. Gerrish).

Name: GERRISH, JOHN W. J.
Initials: J W J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Gloucestershire Regiment
Unit Text: 12th Bn.
Age: 31
Date of Death: 08/05/1917

May I offer the folowing Walter Gerrish?

GERRISH, William Webber Walter, who appears on the CWGC thus:

Name: GERRISH, WILLIAM W.
Initials: W W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Middlesex Regiment
Unit Text: 17th Bn.
Age: 27
Date of Death: 08/08/1916
Service No: F/936
Additional information: Son of Mrs. A. F. Gerrish, of 499, Stapleton Rd., Bristol, and the late W. C. Gerrish.

I am now officially confused as to which was the footballer, although I note that the latter was in the Footballers' Battalion, if that helps. Any thoughts?

Also, from Chesterfield, with CWGC citations:

Arthur E "Deadwood" REVILL

Name: REVILL
Initials: A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Grenadier Guards
Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
Age: 26
Date of Death: 29/09/1915
Service No: 14446
Additional information: Son of Arthur Charles and Eliza Revill, of 40, Boythorpe Avenue, Chesterfield, Derbyshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. D. 55A.
Cemetery: LAPUGNOY MILITARY CEMETERY

Charles N NEWCOMBE:

Name: NEWCOMBE, CHARLES NEIL
Initials: C N
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
Unit Text: 7th Bn.
Age: 24
Date of Death: 27/12/1915
Additional information: Son of E. Percy G. Newcombe and Helen Ada L. Newcombe, of Matlock, now of 4, Park Rd., High Barnet, Herts. Born at Great Yarmouth. Educated at Chesterfield.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: K. 13.
Cemetery: Y FARM MILITARY CEMETERY, BOIS-GRENIER

Joe SMITH:

Name: SMITH, JOSEPH
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Company Serjeant Major
Regiment/Service: Middlesex Regiment
Unit Text: 17th Bn.
Age: 27
Date of Death: 13/11/1916
Service No: F/308
Awards: Mentioned in Despatches
Additional information: Son of Benjamin and Maria Smith, of Swinton, Rotherham; husband of Mrs. F. Morrell (formerly Smith), of 22, Roman St., Thurnscoe East, Rotherham.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. G. 19.
Cemetery: SERRE ROAD CEMETERY No.1



Stuart

[Eceabat]

Pals,

I am hoping for a bit of help here. I am a bit of a novice regarding the history of British football in the early years of last century. However, I have offered to help a Turkish project that is getting off the ground.

The Galatasaray Football Club, based in Istanbul and one of the country's oldest clubs, is tracing the history of club members who served in the First World War. Most of the club's players joined up, with a number falling in action on various fronts, some at Gallipoli, others in Palestine, the east and Iraq.

Interestingly, three of the Galatasaray club members had British parents who had moved to Istanbul and converted to Islam. A bit startling to see a picture of someone called Abdulrahman Robinson in a Turkish uniform. Of the three brothers, two were killed in action and a third wounded. The latter brother rose to become president of the Galatasray FC in the 1920s.

The project, which has well known Turkish historian Sahin Aldogan, is working to locate where those members of Galatasaray who served and lost their lives during the Gallipoli Campaign fell. Some of these sites have already been pinpointed.

What the authors of this project are interested in is whether there were any British footballers, either internationals or club players, who served at Gallipoli.  

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Bill Sellars
Eceabat
Turkey

[j.McNamara]

T.W.G.Jhonson was one of those football players who served at gallipoli,

he played in the ireland national ameteur football team

jhon

[bobpike]

Bill,
Here are two definites -
ICETON, ALBERT
Initials: A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Border Regiment
Unit Text: 6th Bn.
Age: 25
Date of Death: 09/08/1915
Service No: 15577
Additional information: Son of John and Annie Iceton, of Portland St., Workington; husband of Mary Fulton (formerly Iceton), of 22, Front Row, Northside, Workington, Cumberland. A prominent footballer of Workington Central Football Club.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 119 to 125 or 222 and 223.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

TURNER, RONALD
Initials: R
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: Essex Regiment
Unit Text: 1st/5th Bn.
Age: 30
Date of Death: 15/08/1915
Additional information: Son of the Rev. Robert Stobbs Turner (late Vicar of Tirley, Tewkesbury) and Catharine Mary Turner, of Hillend House, Chaceley, Tewkesbury, Glos. Enlisted Aug., 1914, with Artists' Rifles. B.A. Queen's College, Cambridge. Amateur International and Football Blue.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 144 to 150 or 229 to 233.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

I also have these under this category but cannot confirm them, I'm afraid. There are 4 Anzacs listed under 'football,' too, but it will mean rugby or Australian rules football, and I assume you're not interested in tham?
Regards,
Bob

COLLINSON, FREDERICK
Initials: F
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Lancashire Fusiliers
Unit Text: 1st/5th Bn.
Age: 41
Date of Death: 15/05/1915
Service No: 2213
Additional information: Son of James and Sarah Ann Collinson; husband of Mary Collinson, of 6, Woodfields Terrace, Bury.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 58 to 72 or 218 to 219.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

HODGKINSON, JOHN CHAPMAN
Initials: J C
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: East Lancashire Regiment
Unit Text: 1st/5th Bn.
Date of Death: 05/06/1915
Service No: 2116
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 113 to 117.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

[Jonathan Saunders]

Bob - what were the football careers of Collinson and Hodgkinson?

Regards,

Jon S

[bobpike]

Jonathan,
As I intimated I can't tell you. They were in a sports-related war dead database that crashed and I was left with names & sport, but no reference! I suspect that Collinson may be in 'Hell's Foundation,' sorry. I will be interested if you pursue it further & find out,
Kind Regards,
Bob

[Mark Hone]

Collinson is in 'Hells Foundations' by Geoffrey Moorhouse. He had served in the Boer War and became a gas meter inspector for Bury Council after his time as a half-back for Bury FC (aka 'The Shakers'). I haven't been able to ascertain whether he played in either of Bury's FA Cup triumphs of 1900 and 1903. In 1903 they won 6-0 in the final, the highest winning margin ever, and didn't concede a goal in the entire competition. Those were the days-this year they were thrown out of the competition after owning up to fielding an ineligible player once they realised their mistake. The FA wouldn't have noticed otherwise. Of course Bury aren't West Ham...
Here is Fred Collinson's photo from the Bury Virtual War Memorial:

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[bobpike]

Mark,
Thank you for this, a piece of lost information for me recovered.
Regards,
Bob

[Jonathan Saunders]

As I intimated I can't tell you.

Bob - apologies, I couldnt have read your post thoroughly.

Mark - many thanks for the additional info.  

Regards,

Jon S

[Gibbo]

According to The Hamlyn A-Z of British Football Records by Phil Soar, Fred Collinson wasn't in either of Bury's FA Cup winning teams. In case anybody asks, it doesn't mention him, it just gives the teams.

[rjaydee]

According to The Hamlyn A-Z of British Football Records by Phil Soar, Fred Collinson wasn't in either of Bury's FA Cup winning teams. In case anybody asks, it doesn't mention him, it just gives the teams.

Dont recall seeing this name  JIMMY CONLIN 26447 PTE 15TH SERVICE BATT H L I (1ST GLASGOW) KILLED IN ACTION 23 JUNE 1917 FORMER MANCHESTER CITY PLAYER. Nieuport Memorial

[Eceabat]

Thanks all for the replies on footballers who served during the Gallipoli Campaign, it adds an interesting dimemsion to the Galatasaray project.

Interesting the reference to Iceton, who played for the Workington Central Football Club. Workington was where my father's faimily hailed from.

Again, thanks for the information.

Cheers
Bill

[rjaydee]

Thanks all for the replies on footballers who served during the Gallipoli Campaign, it adds an interesting dimemsion to the Galatasaray project.

Interesting the reference to Iceton, who played for the Workington Central Football Club. Workington was where my father's faimily hailed from.

Again, thanks for the information.

Cheers
Bill

A couple more FRANK (TABBY) BOOTH died Manchester Royal Infirmary 22-6-1919  of wounds recd in WW1 played 98 games for Man City 1902-1906 and 1911-1912

GEORGE BROOKS KIA 8-11-1918 played 3 games for Man City in 1912 was registered with Derby County FC when he was killed.

One who survived but lost a leg in 1917 was PETER GASTLAND played one game for Man City Boxing Day 1914 (beat Chelsea 2-1) (last time we beat them )?

[davep]

Dont recall seeing this name  JIMMY CONLIN 26447 PTE 15TH SERVICE BATT H L I (1ST GLASGOW) KILLED IN ACTION 23 JUNE 1917 FORMER MANCHESTER CITY PLAYER. Nieuport Memorial

Jimmy Conlin was quite a man. One of 9 former Bradford City players killed in the war. I've extensively researched his story. Have a look at our website and click on the Great War button the right hand side of the home page.

Dave Pendleton
curator
bantamspast musuem
Valley Parade
Bradford

Bradford City Museum

[rjaydee]

pte mcguire age 26,leaves a widow and family,he was a former player for man city,while under training he turned out for grimsby town,i havent been able to find out his full name or regt.
l/cpl a.robinson was the blackburn goalkeeper,i dont know if he was killed but his brother pte samuel robinson 20428 gren guards of 69 oxford st,old trafford was,bernard

Bernard. Found the following PATRICK MCGUIRE 17TH MANCHESTERS  KIA 12-10-1916 SON OF LATE MARTIN AND BRIDGET MCGUIRE HUSBAND OF MARIA 6 BLAIR ST OLDHAM RD MANCHESTER  BORN AND ENLISTED MANCHESTER COMMEMORATED THIEPVAL MEMORIAL PLAYED FOR THE SKY BLUES 15 TIMES BETWEEN 1912 AND 1914. Ralph.