Drill halls Options

[Dragon]

Hi Jimothy

I took quite a few pictures a couple of years ago and two of them are already on drillhalls.org, though there are more to add. Just time...

However, any new insights are always welcome, and there's no such thing as duplication, just updated information. Thanks very much for taking an interest. It makes it all seem worthwhile.

Cheers

Gwyn

[Jimothy]

Hi Jimothy

I took quite a few pictures a couple of years ago and two of them are already on drillhalls.org, though there are more to add. Just time...

However, any new insights are always welcome, and there's no such thing as duplication, just updated information. Thanks very much for taking an interest. It makes it all seem worthwhile.

Cheers

Gwyn

I took a look at drillhalls.org which mentions Wistaston Road, Crewe. Does anyone know if the drill hall exists still? If so I can get pictures of that too. Or indee any others in the South Cheshire vicinity.

[Dragon]

Charles, that's brilliant information; thank you so much for your efforts. At least there will be a record of where they were.

If ever you have the chance to copy a small part of the map and ask permission for it to be reproduced, we've found that a useful way of illustrating a lost drill hall where photos are not available. I've done this for several towns and libraries are usually very accommodating provided that they're properly credited. (Eg Maidstone in your locality - the museum sent me the maps to use.)

The flyover to Dover Docks, hm. A lost memory for forum members to contemplate next time they're queueing there en route to F&F.

Gwyn

[Dragon]

Hi again Jimothy

I don't know about Crewe's status. Give me a day or two to check and I'll see what else is in the southern part of the county. I know that Nantwich DH is no longer there. There are apparently no records of its drill halls in the county regimental museum, if records ever existed. I did ask.

I think that Graeme has found as I have that sometimes one just has to go to the site and look.

Thanks very much, again.

Gwyn (Cheshire also)

[stuartd]

Oh Stuart - that's excellent information. Can you take its photograph, please? It would be good to know what its present use is, so that the website is up to date.

I have a programme for a dinner at the drill hall, Redruth, in February 1945, starting with Ox Tail soup, then Roast Sirloin of Beef, with Green Peas, then Sherry Trifle or Almond Tart and Custard Sauce - and this was in rationing. Lots of speakers with more letters after their names than in them toasting H M The King and other worthies. You can have a copy if you like; you might recognise the odd name. We put that sort of document in the Memorabilia section, which is intended to illustrate how communities and local people used their drill halls.

We have quite a few interesting photos from Cornwall. I'm looking forward to preparing that county.

Gwyn

Hi Gwyn. I am not back in Cornwall now until the beginning of April as I live away, but I will certainly take a photo for you. I have also seen some photos of the drill hall from the Great War period, but can't think for the life of me where!

Some of the names from the 1945 dinner you mention will undoubtedly be familiar and I'm sure that my elderly relatives will actually know some of the people. I'll probably just recognise surnames.

Would love to see a copy of a copy of the programme from the 1945 dinner, as well as any photos of Cornwall from this period.

Stuart

[Charles Fair]

If ever you have the chance to copy a small part of the map and ask permission for it to be reproduced, we've found that a useful way of illustrating a lost drill hall where photos are not available. I've done this for several towns and libraries are usually very accommodating provided that they're properly credited. (Eg Maidstone in your locality - the museum sent me the maps to use.)

Gwyn/Graeme - I have emailed you both extracts from the 1907 and 1937 OS Maps which show the locations of the Dover Northampton and Liverpool St drill halls. Also photos of the site of the Northampton St DH.

I will have go and have a chat to the people in the Dover Local studies centre next time that I am in Dover. The best thing would be if I can show them drillhalls.org and the Maidstone example.

Sandwich DH is used by the local auction house. Sandwich (Kent): Drill Hall, The Quay: Sandwich Auction Room. Antique Furniture, Fine Art & Collectables. 01304 621000. We are hoping to go up there next time they have am auction going. Hopefully I will be able to get some pics of the inside.

Graeme - I have also just sent you some more photos of the inside of the Handel St DH in London with the marvellous stairway, also some night time shots of the DH at 16 Chenies St London - which is now a perfoming arts centre.

Charles

[Matthew]

Charles,

I spent 17 years as a Territorial at Handel Street. I'd appreciate copies of any old photographs if you wouldn't mind.

Matthew

[Charles Fair]

Matthew - my Handel St photos are all taken in the last 2-3 years - since it was refurbished and now entirely used by LUOTC since the Int Corps moved out. I don't have any old photos unfortunately. Happy to email the modern ones if you send me an email via the forum (not a PM).
Charles

[Dragon]

Just for interest there is a nice description of the Chenies Street premises in the Images of England database here. I suspect one needs to register (free, fast) but then one can enjoy hundreds of wonderful buildings.

Gwyn

PS I haven't overlooked the people to whom I owe replies; I'm ploughing through old directories and maps.

[Dragon]

I took a look at drillhalls.org which mentions Wistaston Road, Crewe. Does anyone know if the drill hall exists still?

Hello Jimothy

I’ve searched Kelly’s Directory 1914, the Defence of Britain Database and English Heritage Images of England, all on the town name, street name and building type. None of these gave me any more information about Crewe than is already in Graeme’s database: that the address was or is Wistaston Road.

I extracted the names of the Sgt Instructors and other miscellaneous men in charge and searched on them as individuals in Kelly’s Directory, and after that I looked for Volunteers or Territorials. Again, the results came up as simply Wistaston road, often referred to as the Armoury.

I’ve found that the directory which is really of use in listing street occupants premises by premises is Slater, or alternatively local ones such as produced by individual towns or small regions. I could only find one online for Crewe but as it was 1874, it was really too early. It told me that the Rifle Volunteer Corps HQ was in Prince Albert street (no number, though), run by a Sgt Major Badger. Unfortunately when I found him listed, his address was simply Prince Albert street.

The directories are in libraries, though, as are my other alternative: old OS maps. I found Wistaston road on Multimap and located it on old-maps.co.uk, but there was no drill hall marked. That is probably because the old map online was too early. If a DH is there on an OS map in the 20s and 30s but not marked in, say, the 70s, it may well have gone.

It can be worth a phone call to the local heritage people in a town, who can sometimes say yes it’s there or no it isn’t.

I browsed the Crewe images in Picture Cheshire. Poignantly, so many of the pictures are of the demolition of old streets in the centre, and I found this saddening.

This is about as much as I can do about Crewe at the moment, I’m afraid. I just don't know exactly where it was or whether it's still there. Ultimately, the only way for someone to get absolutely up-to-date information is going and looking; and that may often prove only that the building is no longer there. Which is, of course, relevant.

Thank you ever so much for taking an interest. Please don’t feel under any obligation to go out of your way. If you have chance, though, it would be good to know whether anything of the Crewe armoury or drill hall survives. As far as the rest of the Cheshire database goes, if we’ve visited it or have a picture or other basic information, the town’s entry will say so, though I still have additional information to put on about some of the towns.

I’m sorry, I’m running out of time to do this justice.....

Cheers

Gwyn

[Charles Fair]

Just for interest there is a nice description of the Chenies Street premises in the Images of England database here.

Thanks for this Gwyn - good pic and description. I will try and wander up there after work one evening to see if I can get some interior photos.
Charles

[Matthew]

Charles,

Thank you for your kind offer. I was really interested in any old stuff you might have had. I haven't been there for maybe ten years but I can't imagine it has changed much.

Yours

Matthew

[Dragon]

Charles, thank you so much for the emailed material. I hope you received my email yesterday in reply.

Other examples of places where I’ve had great help from local studies people are:
- Oxford: here
- Chatham / Rochester:here
- and Faversham (the Faversham Society; I didn’t have time to go into the Library): here.
The credits are self-explanatory.

This list isn’t exhaustive; there have been many, many other places where library staff have helped, engaging with my quest enthusiastically, when I’ve visited in person. It would be invidious to start to list them. I’m fortunate in some ways to have the time to invest in this. I know Graeme has made good use of libraries too, but can only say what I’ve done.

I ask for:
- local directories
- old OS maps
- archive newspaper fiches
- books on local history
- photo image-banks

Having said that, usually I am armed with a starting point from Graeme’s database and I may well have walked the site. Yet again, some of my most interesting discoveries have been pure serendipity, spotting something on a map or a picture or seeing a building that makes me pause or just talking to a local person.

The Sandwich Auction Room will be one of several drill halls we have which are now used for auctions.
Grantham is one, where the manager was extremely helpful. He allowed me to wander round, taking photos and he scaled the balcony to take pictures for me. One of the two Drill Halls in Horncastle - South Road - is another. (The Boston Road Drill Hall is now the Town Hall.)

I’ve invariably found that proprietors of all sorts of drill halls have been willing to allow me access to interiors, once they know that the Project is legitimate, that the website is reputable and that I’ll credit them properly, which obviously makes commercial sense.

I realise you know all this, but I’m expanding because we have had enquiries about what to do and how to find a drill hall, so I hope this doesn’t seem patronising. Maybe I ought to put a Guide on the site...

I’m also contemplating making a Gallery of Horrors, to show what monstrous buildings have been erected on the sites of some Drill Halls where the men on the local War memorial may have trained and later their daughters and sons danced with their sweethearts. Maidstone would be on the list.

We hope to load Berkshire any day now, by the way.

Gwyn

[Charles Fair]

Charles, thank you so much for the emailed material. I hope you received my email yesterday in reply.

Gywn - email received, thank you.

Having said that, usually I am armed with a starting point from Graeme’s database

I find this makes a big difference. With the database entry from the website (or a directory listing) I know where to look. I prefer to get the OS map first, then go and recce the site. Once I have got a good mental picture of the location it then becomes easier to go back to the local studies to find photos etc.

I will also show library staff drillhalls.org too.

I’m also contemplating making a Gallery of Horrors, to show what monstrous buildings have been erected on the sites of some Drill Halls where the men on the local War memorial may have trained and later their daughters and sons danced with their sweethearts. Maidstone would be on the list.

Excellent idea. I think that Folkestone may be one to join it....

It might also be a good idea to have an 'At Risk' page too for those that are most derelict.... It might help to get some Listed if they are not already.

[Dragon]

It might also be a good idea to have an 'At Risk' page too for those that are most derelict.... It might help to get some Listed if they are not already.

I did think of this, actually and a News Page too. It's a good, interesting idea.

I'm saving up to join SAVE [Save Britain's Heritage] and SPAB. I recall visiting one Northern town, known for demolishing buildings in nocturnal secrecy before the populace is awake in the mornings, where the Library Archive Assistant suggested the Cuttings Folder. This folder was incredibly saddening. It was about two inches thick and it was mainly cuttings about buildings which have been demolished. Tudor cottages, single arched medieval bridges, a house from the time of the Plague, Georgian homes, theatres, inns, all gone in the cause of the town council’s drive to eliminate Heritage. I couldn't believe the scale of it. It was outrageous. I actually felt tearful.

At the moment that town still has its Drill Hall. but I cherish my pictures. None of us know when it’ll be its turn for the secret demolition squad. When it is, I hope the ghosts of the Territorials, displaced, will set up home in the adjoining council offices and haunt the coffee machine and the photocopier for a hundred years.

Gwyn

[Sgt_Hazell_Great...]

Gwyn.
Pics on the way.
Roland.

[Dragon]

Three great pictures later...

It's help like this from interested friends which is enabling us to bring so many more pages to life. I'll try and get the various updates from Berkshire and Kent loaded this week.

The Project is very grateful, Roland! Thank you.

Gwyn

[Dragon]

Thank you to people who have sent material recently. I believe I have emailed everyone personally, but I fear that my emails don't always get through.

Please bear with me; I am not at my best at the moment.

Gwyn

[Graeme Fisher]

Can I offer a huge thank you to Charles for all the info and pictures, Roland and Jimothy, and especially Gwyn.

This project has been enriched by your contributions, as it has by many people during the last five years.
Now, with drillhalls.org proving to be a valuable resource, our endeavours are reaching a far wider audience. Without you all, it wouldn't be.

Special thanks to the lady who nagged me into cyberspace, who turned an anorak's hobby into reality, and encouraged you lot to join in.
Thanks, Gwyn.

Graeme

[Dragon]

You're underselling the importance and breadth of the basic material and your own tenacity in building up the database from nothing, Graeme.

Thanks.

Gwyn

[T8HANTS]

Hi Graeme

The state of Drill Halls on the Isle of Wight, that I know of

Newport, R.V. Hall still in military use
Newport Artillery Drill Hall, demolished last year.
Ryde T.A. Hall Office building still standing, Drill Hall extension, demolished.

West Cowes still standing (I think) used as a factory
Ventnor R.V. Hall was tin shed and is long gone.
Freshwater Artillery hall, turned into a memorial hall for the Hants Heavy Howitzers, who were captured at Kut el Amara, Refurbished recently.

Some photographs available, and copies of documents on the founding of Newport R.V. Hall

Gareth

[bill24chev]

Bolton used to have two drill halls/TA barracks ,one for the artillery (part of 1st East Lancs/42nd Div in WW!) and one for the infantry of 5th Loyals (1/5 LNR in 1st West Lans/55 Div & 2/5LNL 57th Div).

The Artillery was based at the Silverwell St drill hall in the town centre.The 5th Loyals where based at Fletcher St, I think it was called Quebec Bks.

The artillery moved to Fletcher Street some time after WW2 and the Drill Hall became a sports centre and was in use into the 1990's

The artillery are now in a modern TA centre, there is no longer a TA infantry presence in Bolton.

Fletcher St Bks are I beleive currently being redeveloped as social housing but I understamd some of the buidings including the facia on Fletcher Street are being retained and converted.

I will try and get a photo.

[daggers]

The new Artillery centre in Bolton was opened on 15 April 1992 - source: "103rd (Lancashire Artillery Volunteers) Regiment RA (Vols), 1967-2001" - a booklet compiled by the RA Officers' Association which aims to guide us through the web of former RHA, Field, Garrison, Heavy, AA & S/L, RE & Infantry and units which covered South Lancs and are now moulded into one with a tangled multiple set of honour titles down to sub unit level!
Daggers

[Dragon]

Thank you, Gareth, Bill24chev and Daggers for the insights into Hampshire and Bolton. Apologies for not elaborating at the moment but it's quite late.

Gwyn

[Graeme Fisher]

Hi Graeme

The state of Drill Halls on the Isle of Wight, that I know of

Newport, R.V. Hall still in military use
Newport Artillery Drill Hall, demolished last year.
Ryde T.A. Hall Office building still standing, Drill Hall extension, demolished.

West Cowes still standing (I think) used as a factory
Ventnor R.V. Hall was tin shed and is long gone.
Freshwater Artillery hall, turned into a memorial hall for the Hants Heavy Howitzers, who were captured at Kut el Amara, Refurbished recently.

Some photographs available, and copies of documents on the founding of Newport R.V. Hall

Gareth

Gareth, this is wonderful information. Do yu have addresses?

The kind offer of photos and documentation is seized with both hands! Yes, please!

Many thanks

Graeme