Drill halls Options

[Tony van der Spi...]

[attachment=59405:attachment][attachment=59406:attachment]

[Queen Victoria's Rifles, Davies Street, London, W1. This is where my great uncle enlisted in 1915.

[kebabking]

Hi Lads been out to library this morning
Middle Street
Nice stuff here
Short article from local dated 1895 of opening with drawing of front plus text description
Fuzzy photo return of 1st Cinque Ports Rifle Volunteers from Soutj Africa 1901
Goodish photo 5th Bat Royal Sussex Reg leaving hall 1 jul 1909 (good side angle shot of hall) Hastings Police parading inside hall 24 sep 27
Text from Cinque Ports Gazette with memories of hall
Cinque Ports Way
Is not on 1909 OS but is on 1929 OS
Invitation for drinks at hall (sorry undated)
Rock a Nore
No picture but refers HAS OB 31 oct 1986 re demolision
Tower road West
Have horrid suspision redevolped within last year
2 to add to list
Tackleway
Believe the raggety school used as drill hall (still to get in touch 73 year old who knows inside out
Grove Road Ore
Still standing now wood merchant .Been so last 25 years previous workshop for ?ALVA cars
Owner really nice guy.Some alterations but loads original features Original floor in parts ANDone wall behind some shelving which owner and myself 90% sure original paint
Am borrowing sons digi camera so will be out soon
Am leaving letter to H Ob till after elections. If can catch a no news week they often follow up letter with article of their own
Have no scanner so PM address where to send stuff so far

[Dragon]

Gosh. Wow!

Thank you. You seem to have unearthed some gems! Very much looking forward to seeing it!

Gwyn(eth)

(See profile. Not a lad, though thinking of adopting honorary bloke status after numerous comments on this forum over the years. )

[Dragon]

Tony, thank you very much for the pictures to add to London.

Would it be possible to email images to either Graeme or me? That way we get better quality pictures.

It must have been moving to see where your great uncle enlisted. Did he survive?

Gwyn

[kebabking]

Gwyn
Got Pm ok
Answer is I dont know will ask library
Had to rush for hospital appointment earlier
Grove Rd Address still THe Drill Hall Grove road
Recreation ground
Cant place this/Have got someone working on it for me
Forgot to look for church St
One oddity
Grove road,Cinque Ports way, and Rock a Nore all next to Mortuary on OS map (is this usual)
Will post what I have tomorrow hopefully

[Dragon]

Grove road,Cinque Ports way, and Rock a Nore all next to Mortuary on OS map (is this usual)

Do you mean was it usual for drill halls to be next to mortuaries?

I know that the drill hall in St Cross road, Oxford, was just down the road from a mortuary chapel, but I'm certain this was coincidence, because the chapel is ancient.

Some drill halls were used as hospitals in the Great War and some were very close to buildings used as war hospitals, so I don't know whether this is significant in the context of mortuary locations. I hadn't really thought about it, because Oxford is the only one I'd noticed (but I hadn't been looking for the connection). Were these drill halls taken into use for hospitals?

I can't generalise, so I don't know, but it's an interesting concept which I'll try to follow up. It might apply to some drill halls. Public buildings tend to beget other public buildings.

I do know that a fair number of drill halls were conveniently situated within reach of a station.

Gwyn

[kebabking]

Mortuaries
Rock a Nore off 1909 OS Sent u a copy along with one of Middle St in package just posted (Royal Mail that is)
A bit of joy
Just up that way so looked for Tower road West
Still there now garage (repairs) the owner seemed quite proud when asked if could take photos (havent yet) seemed quite large told story of 3 tanks being stored there after 2nd WW. Would not have found unless got location from OS map at library.

[Dragon]

Good news; thank you.

The old OS maps are often very useful in pinpointing the location of a drill hall. We have quite a few reproduced (with permission) on the website.

Gwyn

[kebabking]

Heres a new "What is now?" for you I hope
Rock a Nore is now Shipwreck Heritage Centre
Drove past it (possibly) some of DH incorporated into new building ,some of the brick work looked old
Do u want photo if it is
When I have do photos must mention dont do emails,hate the things,only have so can join places like this forum.
Have just discussed with son he suggests printing them here then posting (MAIL) would that be OK

[Dragon]

Drove past it (possibly) some of DH incorporated into new building ,some of the brick work looked old
Do u want photo if it is

Yes please!

Have just discussed with son he suggests printing them here then posting (MAIL) would that be OK

Oh yes! No problem. We can scan. Or put the files on CD, which would save you paper and ink.

We're very grateful for your input. Thank you.

Gwyn

[kebabking]

Right been out and about
Cinque Ports Way
Still there although derelict
Only point of interest built next to it is a modern large complex active for Forces recruitment and still TA
As I said not 1909 OS but on 1929 looks 20s build to me.
Has an 8ft high security around complex which includes DH
Have some photos but difficult with fence and can foresee loads of problems if I try to get inside (health and safety etc)
Rock a Nore
As I suspected the ground floor of the Drill Hall has been used to create single floor Shipwreck Centre possibly because although Listed was dangerous
No sign of the mortuaries at either venue
the Bulverhythe pic is maybe the Recreation ground but still need those details of adjacent roads
One problem we have here SALT
It is obviously in the air however a lot of cheapskate builders in late 1800s used sand from the beach which had salt in it and a lot of the mortar breaks down quicker than it would inland.
So far Grove Rd looks to have most interest and will record as much as i can (that paint and the interior roof )
Here is a photo of back of Grove road taken from B & Qs which is on the site of the mortuary showing problems with brick work[attachment=59624:Picture_008.jpg]

[kebabking]

[attachment=59636:rocknore_006.jpg][attachment=59635:rocknore_004.jpg]
Top pic shows Rock a Nore looking west with entrance to Shipwreck centre
Bottom shows cobbled entrance into hall (would this be correct)

[Graeme Fisher]

Some impressive pictures!

The image of the decaying brickwork shows one of the problems that affect these places. Earlier drill halls were built for the Rifle Volunteers by local worthies, often the O.C. of the unit, or by the Volunteers' own fundraising efforts.

And whilst some raised huge amounts, others had to cut their cloth accordingly, and if a few quid could be saved on the quality of the bricks, so be it.

I have no references to the Cinque Ports way premises in any of my research, but it seems to be of the right period.

I'd found a reference to Rock a Nore elsewhere that suggested the premises next door (Underwater World) were built on the drill hall site, but that cobbled entrance is a good sign.

Keep it coming, Kebabking!

Graeme

[Dragon]

Whatever the quality of the brickwork, it's still there after the best part of a hundred years.

Looks like erosion (sand, wind) to me and frost damage. There is evidence of efflorescence too.

Gwyn

[Graeme Fisher]

Whatever the quality of the brickwork, it's still there after the best part of a hundred years.

Looks like erosion (sand, wind) to me and frost damage. There is evidence of efflorescence too.

Gwyn

Efflorescence? Ooo, 'ark at 'er.....

[T8HANTS]

Graeme

What evidence have you come across that the MOD has made millions selling off ex volunteer drill halls and rifle ranges that they in fact had no title to?

It is my understanding of the situation that they would have title to those drill halls built by the Territorial Association, but possible not those built for Rifle Voluteer units, those probably belonging to the local communities who raise the money in the first place.

Again it is my understanding that RV property was requisitioned for the duration of WW1, and then never returned. Have local communities lost assets because of this oversight I wonder.

Gareth

[kebabking]

Some impressive pictures!

The image of the decaying brickwork shows one of the problems that affect these places. Earlier drill halls were built for the Rifle Volunteers by local worthies, often the O.C. of the unit, or by the Volunteers' own fundraising efforts.

And whilst some raised huge amounts, others had to cut their cloth accordingly, and if a few quid could be saved on the quality of the bricks, so be it.

I have no references to the Cinque Ports way premises in any of my research, but it seems to be of the right period.

I'd found a reference to Rock a Nore elsewhere that suggested the premises next door (Underwater World) were built on the drill hall site, but that cobbled entrance is a good sign.

Keep it coming, Kebabking!

Graeme

Re Underwater World: Looking at the cobbled view UW is the far building
What would help is if The Dragon can tell me from OS I sent her how related
In the cobbled view I am standing ouside church so going east should be drill hall then mortuary
If its church mortuary DH then its the mortuary (though looks too big , and life time local told me it was DH but never believe a fisherman)
Also anyone done Rye or Battle ,have def seen photos of Rye, would help if u had address as I think I would have to go Lewes for OS (leave me alone perhaps after R & B )
Guess Gwyn never got PM (sent as site settling down)
Need any info on Recreation Ground as no record here (could be a multipul of sites)
Also in PM Do u want sample of paint from Grove road (have a couple primitive ideas how to achieve but would be glad of any advice)
Am going to have card made " Hallo you might find this strange but am researching for someone Drill Halls in situ 1914-18"
Will save a lot of time

[Dragon]

Hi

I'm not sure which PM.

I don't think that a sample of real paint would be appropriate, and you might get arrested for vandalism. A photo is fine.

Looking at the OS, along Rock-a-Nore road, the buildings are: ( West) urinal - space- fishermen's church - unlabelled building - drill hall - mortuary (East). I would scan and post it, but I'm going out. Sorry.

The drill hall in Battle was / is High street and the one in Rye Cinque Ports street. (Kelly 1911)

Apologies for brevity. We do appreciate your efforts. There really is no urgency (unless it's evidently on the point of demolition) because we're not planning to load Sussex for at least another month, then you'll be able to see what we have.

Gwyn

[kebabking]

[attachment=59667:Picture_009.jpg][attachment=59668:Picture_004.jpg]

Whatever the quality of the brickwork, it's still there after the best part of a hundred years.

Looks like erosion (sand, wind) to me and frost damage. There is evidence of efflorescence too.

Gwyn

There has been subsidence at rear of building New? brick work with ties (the grey bits at bottom)
The front has been rebricked (apart from side entrance) but ? original window put back
Gwyn I make u right about eff..eff..eff... powdering

[kebabking]

We're always grateful for anyone who pays a visit to the places we have listed; please take your camera!
Often the drill hall's long gone, but if someone says 'it was demolished in 1986 and is now Tesco' then that's valid.

Hastings lists Rock-a-Noree Road and Middle street, St Leonards has Hatherly road, Church street, Cinque Ports way, Recreation Ground and Tower Road West. I have pictures of Hatherly road but would be grategul for anything else

Thanks

Graeme

Reference post 639
Not this Cinque Ports Way then
Would correctly be CPW St. Leonards
Have seen an OS where CPW is on map but road ( its more like a little stub running to sea) unnamed
AS stated before not on OS 1909 but on OS 1929 (one of the two its unamed) have made a note to get OS copy for you

[kebabking]

Been to site of middle street.Now back of Priory Meadow shopping centre. Have taken pic from where the one I sent you was taken.Very boring!
Been Tower Road West
Thought initially was straight forward. Not at all. Under the Hall are some arches accessed through a National Builders merchants.Leaving through the back of the hall through what is now fire escape is another building also accessed from buiders yard.Which from the floor construction appears to have been stables
Went to builders asked to take photos after a bit of ummimg etc given ok as long as I didnt photograph anything with their logo on.???? Beats me!
Went to hathersly road on way back. Lovely building but appears built in 2 phases. The corner of Hathersly and Southwater road has different details on windows etc than the Hall that would be described as in Southwater Road.Still being used but no one there will try to gain access later.
This may explain Rock a Nore as from Gwyns details of map the bit I photoed was next to church.2 phases that is.
Went to Church Road
Cant understand this as it is literally round corner from substantial Hath Road which would have been all that was needed in the area /One possible /need to go library for OS. If u want anything OS maps etc let me know./
Problem I have now is my memory failing me. Computer memory that is . need to get more before i load photos dont want to lose them
Photoed Grove road. no problem if you want paint .Guv their very accomadating unlike The Army at Cinque Ports Way who never seem to be there.Solved the 2 types of brick.Back dug out to expose foundations and then tied.So the man said.
AhHH Just seen as I went to enter post"Church Street" Can i have some details of surrounding as we have lots of Church St/ roads in Hastings and St.Leonards as the town grew into surrounding villages.
PS Just to balance things out a bit Tower Road West near old Maternity Hospital

[kebabking]

[attachment=59738:tower_rd_001.jpg][attachment=59707:tower_rd_014.jpg]
Middle St ! Need I say more
Cinque Ports Way showing :Fence,dereliction, and new buildings (Top)

[kebabking]

[attachment=59708:tower_rd_021.jpg][attachment=59709:tower_rd_019.jpg]
Tower Road West
Top: Hall with arches below
Bottom: Inside arches
You have to realise Hastings is very hilly the hall is below the level of Tower Road West and then the arches are at the level of a lane adjacent to maternity hospital

[kebabking]

[attachment=59710:tower_rd_028.jpg][attachment=59711:tower_rd_029.jpg]
Top:Hatherley Road from Southwater Road Note the details of brick work above windows etc
Bottom: Hatherley Road from Hatherley Road again hilly a fair drop from rear to front

[kebabking]

[attachment=59715:tower_rd_004.jpg][attachment=59716:tower_rd_010.jpg]
Detail of paint on rear interior wall Grove Road.The paint extends all along the wall be it patchy. The plaster behind is a light blue which even if not natioanlly then locally I think would be historically correct.
Will check with my builder pal and correct if need be.The numbers 3&4 were the only ones on the wall I could find although some of wall is obscured by shelving[attachment=59735:tower_rd_005.jpg]