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Trench mace or...?


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#1 Arditi

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 03:26 AM

I picked this up at a local gunshow this past weekend. It's about the length of a feldspaten and has a lethal look to it. Interestingly, it has the German rust colored paint found on many late war paint jobs as well as splotches of feldgrau. Can I get an opinon on what this it. I want it to be a trench mace rolleyes.gif , but have not seen this pattern before. Another usage? I do believe it is Imperial German due to the paint. I paid a nominal fee for this, so nobody was trying to hoodwink me. Any opinions appreciated. Links to pics added...Many Thanks, Arditi
http://www.gunboards...TOPIC_ID=173612

#2 auchonvillerssomme

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 05:15 AM

How much does it weigh? My first impression wouldnt be a weapon, to start with what would be the benefit of all the tines? you would do just as good a job with the lump they fit into. also the pin at the bottom appears to be holding them in place which would maybe indicate they are designed to be removed. A tool would be my guess but who knows what it would be used for.

Mick

#3 Max Poilu

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 06:36 AM

It's an odd tool for sure but not a trench club I think. Never seen anything like it or a reference to it. The war connection is a bit dubious - any old iron tool has this sort of patina - are you sure it was a 'bring back'. Looks more likely to be a specific agricultural or engineering tool to me.

Some previous GWF trench club discussion here:

http://1914-1918.inv...ite=trench club

#4 Doc2

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:32 AM

QUOTE (Giles Poilu @ Jul 14 2006, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's an odd tool for sure but not a trench club I think. Never seen anything like it or a reference to it. The war connection is a bit dubious - any old iron tool has this sort of patina - are you sure it was a 'bring back'. Looks more likely to be a specific agricultural or engineering tool to me.

Some previous GWF trench club discussion here:

http://1914-1918.inv...ite=trench club

Ihave to agree with Giles-- This is a tool of some kind, not a weapon. In fact, I have seen very similar tools in several French museums--- unfortunately, I can't for the life of me think what the labels said they were used for. Will have to keep thinking, but I am sure it's a tool, not a weapon. Doc2

#5 Andrew Upton

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:37 PM

QUOTE (Arditi @ Jul 14 2006, 04:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I picked this up at a local gunshow this past weekend. It's about the length of a feldspaten and has a lethal look to it. Interestingly, it has the German rust colored paint found on many late war paint jobs as well as splotches of feldgrau. Can I get an opinon on what this it. I want it to be a trench mace rolleyes.gif , but have not seen this pattern before. Another usage? I do believe it is Imperial German due to the paint. I paid a nominal fee for this, so nobody was trying to hoodwink me. Any opinions appreciated. Links to pics added...Many Thanks, Arditi
http://www.gunboards...TOPIC_ID=173612


Not seen one quite like this before, but I've seen very similar tools designed for catching/spearing eels - so perhaps not a WW1 trench weapon?

#6 bkristof

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:45 PM

isn't that a tool to beat Flax to make it usable to spin with?

#7 IanA

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:45 PM

Andrew - definitely not a leister for catching eels. Couldn't say what it is though - a tool rather than a weapon would be my guess.

Ian

#8 Arditi

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:05 PM

Thanks for the feedback gents. The item came out of a long term collection and I only have his word that is was a bring back, but I don't doubt it. The entire piece looks like rust patina throughout, but it's deceiving. The handle up to the loop and nails is painted with the exact same rust colored paint used on the tortoise shell coalscuttles. I have two examples to match the paint to. In addition, there are small paint splotches of WW1 feldgrau on the handle. Just a couple, but definitely WW1 felgrau. The weight of the item is about double the weight of a feldspaten. It's handy to be sure. I am also not sure if it is a trench mace/maul, but...I'm hoping rolleyes.gif . I paid $48.00 for the thing and the elderly gentleman was selling off his collection. He says it's from WW1, but you know what a story is worth. wink.gif On the Gunboards, the preposition was made that it had a use at, possibly, log construction of the trench systems. Wood being an intregal part of the more complicated structures. Sounds plausible, but he was not sure as well. The item looks field made. The nails are meant to be permanent I think, but what do I know. I appreciate the help from this august company. Any other opinions greatly appreciated. Many Thanks, Arditi

#9 T8HANTS

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:56 PM

I think it is a boiler descaling hammer for knocking calcium and rust from boiler tubes, probably quite big ones. The spikes look as if they can conform to the shape of a variety of tube diameters. There is a similar air operated rust descaling tool called a needle gun.

That's my hunch

Gareth

#10 auchonvillerssomme

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 06:58 AM

QUOTE (T8HANTS @ Jul 14 2006, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it is a boiler descaling hammer for knocking calcium and rust from boiler tubes, probably quite big ones. The spikes look as if they can conform to the shape of a variety of tube diameters. There is a similar air operated rust descaling tool called a needle gun.

That's my hunch

Gareth


I showed the picture to a colleague who has been known to get his hands dirty, he said more or less the same thing.

Mick

#11 Arditi

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 02:35 PM

QUOTE (auchonvillerssomme @ Jul 15 2006, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I showed the picture to a colleague who has been known to get his hands dirty, he said more or less the same thing.

Mick


Thanks Gents. Now I'll show my ignorance. What is a boiler tube? Something to generate power...steam power? Best Regads, Arditi

#12 T8HANTS

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 10:01 PM

Hi

The three major parts of any boiler are the fire box, where the fire is placed, the water jacket where the water to be turned into steam is, and a passage(s) to allow the hot gases of the fire to pass out to atmosphere. This they do by flowing through one or more tubes which are surrounded by the water in the water jacket through which these tubes pass. The hot gases flow as a result of "draught" which is the phenomenon where smoke goes up the chimney and not into the living room. The transfer of heat creates the steam which is collected at the top of the water jacket and used for what ever purpose. In doing so the constant evaporation causes scale to build up just like the inside of a kettle if you live in a hard water area (ie chalky) on the tubes, to the point where they become inefficient in heat transfer and can also be damaged. For this reason they have to be kept clean, and this would mean some lucky person would have to get into the boiler and knock off the scale.
Hope this helps

Gareth

#13 Arditi

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 11:10 PM

QUOTE (T8HANTS @ Jul 15 2006, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi

The three major parts of any boiler are the fire box, where the fire is placed, the water jacket where the water to be turned into steam is, and a passage(s) to allow the hot gases of the fire to pass out to atmosphere. This they do by flowing through one or more tubes which are surrounded by the water in the water jacket through which these tubes pass. The hot gases flow as a result of "draught" which is the phenomenon where smoke goes up the chimney and not into the living room. The transfer of heat creates the steam which is collected at the top of the water jacket and used for what ever purpose. In doing so the constant evaporation causes scale to build up just like the inside of a kettle if you live in a hard water area (ie chalky) on the tubes, to the point where they become inefficient in heat transfer and can also be damaged. For this reason they have to be kept clean, and this would mean some lucky person would have to get into the boiler and knock off the scale.
Hope this helps

Gareth



ahhh...something we call a "hot water heater" here I think. Thanks for the help. I am still puzzled by what I believe is Imperial German paint on the handle. Something I may never truly find out about. Many Thanks to all. You gents have a fine site and I will be back. Best Regards, Arditi

#14 T8HANTS

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 10:05 AM

The imperial German fleet was I believe driven by steam, so boilers and their cleaning tools might have been a handy item to have on board.

Did the German army not use any form of steam road traction?
Gareth

#15 Greg

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 11:26 AM

I think I agree with Gareth. I have seen something similar used on ships to knock off rusting paint before repainting but all combatants used a vareity of steam engines and presumably they came with their own military tools. I also wondered if it was for cutting chalk. I used to use a thing called a scrutch hammer(chisel also available) for working stone which had a comb of multiple points It must have been a nightmare using an entrenching tool on chalk
Greg

#16 Arditi

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 03:19 PM

hmmm...makes sense. Nothing like a sexy killing device! Thanks again, Arditi