127 replies to this topic

[John Hartley]

PS: Thanks for the other info on the 'Lee' and 'Wrench Brothers'

Pity about Finnerty. One hopes for descendents with juicy information.

I've told this tale before but it'll stand a retell. When I launched my original memorial website, the local newspaper did a very nice two page spread. The after publication the phone and a voice says "Hello, this is Fred Wrench...."

I was, uncharacteristically, speechless for a few moments till I realised that this wasnt a ghost.

He was a nephew of a much younger brother of Fred's. And he put me in touch with a much older cousin who had known Charlie's widow. "Any idea where his MM might be" says I. "She'd have flogged it if there was five bob in it", she replies. I learned more about the area where I now live in two meetings with this elderly lady then a local history book can tell.

She then wanted to give me a copy of the Manchester City Battalions Book of Honour. "Can't accept it" says I....not wanting a reputation for conning a blind old woman out of a fairly valuable book. She insisted. I kept refusing. She kept insisting. I said I would buy it then. She refused to take more than 10p - cos she knew it was going to good home. There are still genuine nice people in this world. It cheers me up every time I think of this story and more so when I tell it.

John

[mmm45]

3 more brothers from the the Spenborough Roll of Honor:

Smith Waugh
273412
RN
HMS LARKSPUR
died of Pneumonia 25/12/19

Smith C H
Pte
201989
1/4th West Ridings
KIA 3/9/16  Schwaben Redoubt assault

Smith T
Lcpl
23989
9 KOYLI
KIA 9/4/17
Arras

All lived Walker St Littletown West Yorks.


Ady

[PBI]

Morning Dave,just been going through some of my Old DVDs and came across a Documentary Called "Brothers In Blood",and it tells the story of the 5 Stewart Brothers from Leeds of whom FOUR Died during the Great War,and One who Died on Active Service after the End of Hostilities.All of them were Leeds Lads Dave,i thought You might find their story Interesting...Regards Russ.

Pte.W.A.  Stewart KIA Gallipoli           24.10.15.
Pte.L       Stewart Died Leeds             17.06.17.
Pte.W      Stewart Died E.Africa          10.03.19.
Cpl.A       Stewart KIA                       13.04.18.
Lt.  C.E.   Stewart DOW                     10.09.16.

[Beau Geste]

Last week, friends and I visited Flat Iron Copse Cemetery near Mametz Wood. As many of you will know there are three sets of brothers buried, side by side, there: Lieutenants Arthur and Leonard Tregaskis, Ptes. Albert and Ernest Oliver and Ptes. Tom and Henry Hardwidge.

That though isn't the reason why I've added this posting to David's excellent thread.

The awful tragedy of losing three or two sons in a war is something I personally find impossible to imagine and my heart goes out to parents who were forced to suffer the emptiness that was forced upon them by such a catastrophe. I wonder though if that suffering, that sense of emptiness,  was any greater than that experienced by millions of parents who lost (or today in Iraq or Afghanistan lose )  an only son in war.

Harry

[PBI]

Dave,according to the Programme,Ada Stewart had 19 Children !!,and She outlived ALL of them,3 of the Children Died at Birth,the 5 Brothers We know about,as for the remaining 11..more research awaits.. I wonder if any male Siblings Died in WW2 ?...Will Burn you a copy of the Documentary,and get it off in the Post to you Today.

[PBI]

http://www.1914-1918.net/heroes/brothers.htm



Remembering the 3 Racheil Brothers,All KIA on the Same Day,with the Royal Fusiliers,None of the Brothers have a known grave,and are commemorated with Honour on the Menin Gate memorial to the Missing.

[montbrehain]

Also In memory of  Bertie , George and James Andrews. The 3 sons of David and Fleurine Andrews of MaMa creek ,Grantham , Queensland , Australia. Rest in Peace fellers as on this ANZAC day you and your deeds are not forgotten.  "MO"

[John Hartley]

I also wonder if Charles Edward made Lieutenant through the ranks? Perhaps someone with knowledge of the 20th Manchester Regiment could come in on this?

Dave

Quick glance at the freebie bit of the MICs shows he was previously 8537, Corporal, Worcesters.

John

[mruk]

Much Appreciated, John.
That's cleared a few things up. I'll try and access the London Gazette later to see if there's mention of his promotion.

Kind Regards,
Dave

[PBI]

Much Appreciated, John.
That's cleared a few things up. I'll try and access the London Gazette later to see if there's mention of his promotion.

Kind Regards,
Dave

Dave,Ada and Husband Fred,did manage to visit to Charles while he was Dying in Hospital in Abbeville in 1916.

[Beau Geste]

Many Thanks, Gentlemen.
As usual, Harry, you raise some very perceptive points on grief and suffering, and unimaginable loss. I was also drawn to your comments on 'courage' and 'fear' on the fine tribute you started to Lt. Col. Sandys. I hope to respond in time. Russell, I would be most grateful for anything you would be good enough to send. I'll forward my details.

Best Wishes,
Dave

PS: Many Happy Returns, Harry.

I love the smilie David, it seems so apropo. However, at my age you try to forget birthdays. Thank you anyway.

Harry

[highland]

Hello Friends

Honoured to add in the following, my Grandfather's cousins; from a chance remark I have just found out about this, a further, similar and sad tale; early days in my research but I believe these were the only children and therefore the family's line was to end with their deaths.

Details from CWGC; have been looking at other posts, I assume the 'additional information' is most likely to be from relatives, and given at the time?

(I would of course like to find there are other living relatives whose research resulted in the addition; but I think I am the first to 'remember' these 3 in a long time and am feeling very attached to them, you all know how it gets to you...)

With kind regards to all



VICKERS, PERCY
Initials: P
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Lancashire Fusiliers
Unit Text: "A" Coy. 1st/7th Bn.
Age: 22
Date of Death: 20/12/1915
Service No: 2003
Additional information: Son of Joseph and Mary Vickers, of 15, Milford St., Seedley, Manchester.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 58 to 72 or 218 to 219.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

VICKERS, LOUIS
Initials: L
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Royal Warwickshire Regiment
Unit Text: 2nd/5th Bn.
Age: 20
Date of Death: 01/07/1916
Service No: 7321
Additional information: Son of Joseph and Mary Vickers, of 15, Milford St., Seedley, Manchester. Born at Chester.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. J. 13.
Cemetery: RUE-DU-BACQUEROT No.1 MILITARY CEMETERY, LAVENTIE

VICKERS, HARRY
Initials: H
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Lancashire Fusiliers
Unit Text: 15th Bn.
Age: 24
Date of Death: 01/07/1916
Service No: 10265
Additional information: Son of Joseph and Mary Vickers, of 15, Milford St., Seedley, Manchester. Enlisted Nov., 1914. One of three brothers who fell.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 3 C and 3 D.

[Chris Martin]

Four members of the Ayre family, all officers were killed July 1, 1916. The four were brothers and cousins from a wealthy St. John's, Newfoundland family. Three were killed at Beaumont Hamel with the Newfoundland Regiment the fourth with a British Regiment, Norfolk I believe. Of course like many communities in the UK, St. John's saw their share of sacrifice July 1, 1916.

All four Ayre's in question were grandsons of C.R Ayre, a well known St. John's buisnessman, but only two were brothers.  Capatin Eric Ayre and Captain Bernard Ayre were brothers, Lieutenant Gerald Ayre and Lieutenant Wilfred Ayre were cousins (to both Eric and Bernard, and each other).  Eric, Wilfred, and Gerald served with the Newfoundland Regiment and died at Beaumont Hamel on 1 july 1916.  Bernard served with the Norfolk Regiment and died the same day near Maricourt.

[geoff501]

From Broughton Green, Hanbury.
All eight sons of Anne and Henry Brazier served King and Country.
Four did not return home; William Henry (age 31), Walter (age 24), Henry (age 18) and Edward John (age 30)

Name: BRAZIER (William Henry)
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: North Staffordshire Regiment
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Date of Death: 09/04/1915
Service No: 7219
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. A. 7.
Cemetery: ERQUINGHEM-LYS CHURCHYARD EXTENSION

Name: BRAZIER (Walter)
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: North Staffordshire Regiment
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Date of Death: 30/04/1915
Service No: 7220
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. F. 4.
Cemetery: BAILLEUL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION (NORD)

Name: BRAZIER, HENRY
Initials: H
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Age: 18
Date of Death: 09/03/1917
Service No: 9796
Additional information: Son of Anne Brazier, of The Stews, Broughton Green, Droitwich, and the late Henry Brazier.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 5 A and 6 C.
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

Name: BRAZIER, EDWARD
Initials: E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment
Unit Text: 3rd Bn.
Date of Death: 21/03/1918
Service No: 30288
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 6.
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

 brazier.jpg   17.68K   2 downloads

[SMG65]

The title of this post could apply to the parents of the 'The Fighting Bradfords' from Darlington.

Lt James Bradford MC, 18 DLI, KIA - 14/05/17.

Brigadier General Roland Boyes Bradford VC, MC, 9 DLI, 186 Brigade, KIA - 30/11/17. At 25 the youngest ever General in the British Army.

Lt Commander George Bradford VC, Royal Navy, KIA 23/04/18.

George and Roland were the only two brothers in the Great War to recieve the VC.

The eldest brother Captain Thomas Bradford, DSO, 8 DLI, survived the war and died in 1966 after living a full and active life.

Roland Bradford was a regular and a Lt at the outbreak of war in 1914 and was classed as a genius. He had been considered for the command of a brigade when only 24. His reports and recommendations were read and studied by Generals.

One of the great 'What Ifs' is if Roland had survived the war, would World War 2 have been different, he would have only been 47 in 1939.

Sean

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Dave

I have just seen your PM to me, sorry for delay, I've been on holiday in sunny Wales for a week, thanks I would like Herbert, Baldwin obit if you have it, by the way his Reg. number is 9446. Also Herberts 1914-15 star medal roll entry records the date of his death as 30-6-17 or it may be an 8 instead of a 6 ? but which ever, this does not match the date given by SD & CWGC.

Annette

[Chris Noble]

And just to add,


Casualty Details
Name: BUCKLE, LEONARD
Initials: L
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own)
Unit Text: 1st/5th Bn.
Age: 23
Date of Death: 03/09/1916
Service No: 2819
Additional information: Son of Edward and Annie Buckle, of Tockwith, York.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. M. 1.
Cemetery: CONNAUGHT CEMETERY, THIEPVAL
      
Casualty Details
Name: BUCKLE, PERCIVAL
Initials: P
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Rifleman
Regiment/Service: West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own)
Unit Text: 1st/8th Bn.
Age: 27
Date of Death: 09/10/1917
Service No: 307726
Additional information: Son of Edward and Annie Buckle, of Tockwith, York.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 42 to 47 and 162.
Memorial: TYNE COT MEMORIAL
      

Casualty Details
Name: BUCKLE, TOM
Initials: T
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: King's Royal Rifle Corps
Unit Text: "B" Coy. 16th Bn.
Age: 22
Date of Death: 29/10/1918
Service No: C/13036
Additional information: Son of Edward and Annie Buckle, of Tockwith, York.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: II. F. 19.
Cemetery: AWOINGT BRITISH CEMETERY
      
One can only speculate as to sense of grief of all these families.
With deepest respect to all,
Chris.

[lisa1616]

hello, i am new to this sight  and i was reading the stories of brothers lost in the war.
i would like to add my story.

Three brothers from Spexhall Suffolk were killed , one was my great great grandfather (robert)

On the gates of st peters Spexhall Suffolk it reads IN MEMORY OF WILLIAM AND MARIA STANNARD, AND OF THEIR SONS REGINALD ROBERT AND WALTER,  WHO DIED IN THE SERVICE OF THEIR COUNTRY 1914-1918

They are; Robert Stannard , Royal Naval Reserves, deck hand, HMS Pembroke , died 17/1/17 age 30, died of septacemia, buried st peters spexhall
Service no 5340DA

Reginald Stannard, Royal Naval Reserves, deck hand, HM Drifter Enterprise II, died 8/3/1916 age 18, sunk by enemy mine, italy all hands lost , Service no 3788DA, Chatham naval Memorial.

Walter Stannard, private Northamptonshire reg, 1st Bn, died of wounds 25/07/1916 age 30, buried at Puchevillers british cemetery

Robert left 7 children oldest was 17 her name was rose and she was my greatgrandmother.

[NigelS]

here, unfortunately, are a further three brothers, all KIA while serving with the LRB, who I don't think have been mentioned before

Name: WARNER, ARCHIBALD
Initials: A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade)
Unit Text: 5th Bn.
Age: 32
Date of Death: 01/07/1916
Additional information: Son of John Warner, of Waddon House, Croydon; husband of Norah E. Marriage (formerly Warner) , of The Parsonage, Broomfield, Essex. Served as Pte. in 3rd Bn. Artists' Rifles.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. D. 7.
Cemetery: HEBUTERNE MILITARY CEMETERY

Name: WARNER, BERTRAM
Initials: B
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade)
Unit Text: 1st/5th Bn.
Secondary Regiment: Worcestershire Regiment
Secondary Unit Text: formerly
Age: 28
Date of Death: 12/04/1917
Additional information: Son of John and Alice Warner, of Waddon House, Croydon.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 9.
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

Name: WARNER, EVAN
Initials: E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Serjeant
Regiment/Service: London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade)
Unit Text: 5th Bn.
Age: 34
Date of Death: 11/12/1914
Service No: 8050
Additional information: Son of John and Alice Warner, of Waddon
House, Croydon.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 8.
Cemetery: LANCASHIRE COTTAGE CEMETERY

The History of the London Rifle Brigade 1859 -1919 (Publ. Constable, 1921) gives for the 11th April '17:
2nd Lieut. B. warner was killed in the bombing operations up Heninel Trench, which resulted in the killing of 17 Germans and the capture of 2 wounded. Junction was made with the 2nd Londons, and posts were established at: (1) cross roads (2) N.22.a.central.  (3) N.22.d.37. (4) N.22.d.35. and (5) N.22.b.59. Warner made two unsuccessful efforts before his party finally cleared Heninel Trench, and was killed after he had gallantly succeeded his objective. He was the third and last of his family to be killed whilst fighting with the L.R.B.: One brother went out with the 1st Battalion and was killed at Ploegsteert, and another, Archie, was killed at Gommecourt. They were all fine soldiers.

Evan Warner must have been among the L.R.B's earliest casualties as for November only two deaths are reported and for December '14: The total casualties for the month were – Killed, Other Ranks, 11; wounded – Officers, 2; Other Ranks, 24.

A slight aside: The L.R.B's first casualty  at the front - of just two in November '14 - is reported as follows: During "D" company's preliminary tour in the trenches, Rfn. J.L. Dunnett, who was only 18 and very popular with his comrades, was killed by shell while breakfasting. - If you knew nothing at all about the conditions in the trenches, from this description you could be forgiven for imagining the unfortunate Dunnet,  meeting his maker while tucking into kedgeree from a silver salver - strange how much English usage has changed in just 90+ years

Do the Warner Brothers appear together on a War Memorial in the Waddon (Croydon, Surrey) area, I wonder?

Nigel S

[murrough]

Four brothers from Tasmania, details on link
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=514983

[PBI]

[quote name='NigelS' date='Nov 21 2007, 11:00 PM' post='805788']
here, unfortunately, are a further three brothers, all KIA while serving with the LRB, who I don't think have been mentioned before

Name: WARNER, ARCHIBALD
Initials: A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade)
Unit Text: 5th Bn.
Age: 32
Date of Death: 01/07/1916
Additional information: Son of John Warner, of Waddon House, Croydon; husband of Norah E. Marriage (formerly Warner) , of The Parsonage, Broomfield, Essex. Served as Pte. in 3rd Bn. Artists' Rifles. b.Waddon 13th Feb 1894.Educated at "The Limes",Croydon,Whitgift School,Leighton Park School,Reading & Queens College Cambridge,A Solicitor,lived at "Penarth",Carshalton.Enlisted 4.06.15.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. D. 7.
Cemetery: HEBUTERNE MILITARY CEMETERY

Name: WARNER, BERTRAM
Initials: B
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade)
Unit Text: 1st/5th Bn.
Secondary Regiment: Worcestershire Regiment
Secondary Unit Text: formerly
Age: 28
Date of Death: 12/04/1917
Additional information: Son of John and Alice Warner, of Waddon House, Croydon.Born.19.04.1888.Educated at "The Limes",Croydon & Reading Schools,An Agriculturist.ResidedSedgeberrow near Evesham.Enlisted as a Pte in the 8th Worcs 08.08.14.Comisioned Sept 16
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 9.
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

Name: WARNER, EVAN
Initials: E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Serjeant
Regiment/Service: London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade)
Unit Text: 5th Bn.
Age: 34
Date of Death: 11/12/1914
Service No: 8050
Additional information: Son of John and Alice Warner, of Waddon.Born 1880,Educated "The Limes",Croydon & Whitgift Schools,Manager for Wharfingers,Enlisted 03.03.04
House, Croydon.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 8.
Cemetery: LANCASHIRE COTTAGE CEMETERY

[PBI]

Archibald Warner.Archie is Commemorated on the Carshalton War Memorial,the other Brothers are Not.



Evan Warner

[PBI]

Bertram Warner

[NigelS]

PBI - many thanks for that additional info & the pictures of the Warner brothers, there's no mistaking a family likeness.  Can I be so bold as to ask the sources? I have a little more from  NOMINAL ROLL OF OFFICERS (Pg 487 & 488) in The History of the LRB 1859-1919 which gives:
WARNER, ARCHIBALD. Ed. Whitgift and Queens' College, Cambridge. Enlisted in the Artists' Rifles June-Oct. 1915. Commissioned in 3rd Batt. 2nd Lieut. 29/10/15, and went to 1st Batt. in France 27/5/16 – 1/7/16 (killed in action).

WARNER, BERTRAM. Ed. Reading School. Joined the 1/8th Batt. Worcesters 8/8/14 and went to France with it 31/3/15 as Corporal and was promoted Sergeant. Returned for commission, 2nd Lieut.  L.R.B. 26/9/16. Went to France and joined 1st  batt.  6/12/16-12/4/17 (killed in action).

The boys must have started their education at home as the 1891 census gives "The Limes" as the Family's address. Intrestingly, the 1901 census gives Leighton Park School, Which Archibald was attending at the time, as "Society of Friends" which might indicate that the family were Quakers; this seem strangely at odds with the three brothers being KIA (even stranger with Evan given as having enlisted 03.03.04) so might not be the case - unless, of course, they didn't share their parent's religious convictions.
From the Census records for 1881-1901 John & Alice Warner had nine children; 2 other sons: John (born C.1876) who appears to have died in 1886, and Gerald (born c.1879) who I haven't been able to trace in 1901, and four sisters: Mildred (born C.1874), Cicely C. (born c.1890), Alice R. (born c. 1883) and Grace (born c.1884). John senior's occupation is given as "Ironfounder", with the 1881 census gives him as employing 17 men & 3 boys; obviously none of the sons had followed their father into their father's ironfoundry business pre-war.

I initially had a problem with the statement given for Archibald "husband of Norah E. Marriage (formerly Warner) , of The Parsonage, Broomfield, Essex."  but realised that  Norah had probably  remarried and subsequently found that she had to Llewllyn Marriage in 1921

I would guess that Bertram might be remembered on a memorial in Sedgeberrow; I would have expected Evan to be on one local to the Croydon area; in the 1901 census, where his occupation is just given as "Wharfinger" he is still in Waddon with the liklihood, but by no means certain, that he remained there pre-war.

[PBI]

Nigel,The Additional Information and the Portraits came from the 1920 Publication "Croydon And The Great War" By Moore & Sayers....Regards Russell.