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Boy Scouts in WW1


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#1 Geert Spillebeen

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 09:05 PM

Hi,
I am still a rookie on this forum.
I am leading a research about the link between WW1 and the First Boy Scouts.
As you may know 2007 is the 100th anniversary of the first Boy Scout Camp, a test camp in august 1907 on Bronwsea Island. Baden Powell took some 20 boys to that camp to test his scouting theories.

Some of these boys died a few years later during WW1 in Flanders & France.
I have quite a bit of information about some of them, BUT NO PICTURES.
Could someone help me find photographs of :
2LT M.C.Wroughton, 12 Royal Lancers, died 30 Oct.1914
2LT W.F.Rodney, Rifle Brigade (att. to Royal Flying Corps), died 9 May 1915
2LT Marc A.P. Noble, Royal Field Artillery, 1 July 1917

Any information is welcome.

Greets, GEERT cool.gif

#2 Paul Reed

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 09:09 PM

Geert - do you have a complete list of all those who attended this camp, and do you know if there is a 'Scouts Roll of Honour' for WW1?

#3 stiletto_33853

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 10:05 PM

Geert,

From the 1915 Rifle Brigade Chronicles.

2nd Lieutenant Hon. F.W. Rodney
Francis William Rodney was the fourth son of the seventh Baron Rodney and Corisande, second daughter of the first Lord Wimborne and was born 2nd October 1896, educated at Shrewsbury College and the Royal Military College, Sandhurst. He was appointed to the 5th (Reserve) Battalion in December 1914 and joined the Royal Flying Corps and did duty in Flanders with No. 3 Squadron. On 9th May 1915 when carrying on his observations he was shot down and killed. He was buried at Chocques near Bethune.

Hope this helps a little, unfortunately I do not have a picture of him.

Andy

#4 Geert Spillebeen

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 10:58 PM

QUOTE (Paul Reed @ Jan 7 2007, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Geert - do you have a complete list of all those who attended this camp, and do you know if there is a 'Scouts Roll of Honour' for WW1?


YEs, Paul, the full list of the first boy scouts exists (just google "boy scouts / brownsea island / test camp " etc... But I cannot find any picture of the 3 men that I mentioned in my request. Thanks anyway.
GEERT

#5 Geert Spillebeen

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 10:59 PM

QUOTE (stiletto_33853 @ Jan 7 2007, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Geert,

From the 1915 Rifle Brigade Chronicles.

2nd Lieutenant Hon. F.W. Rodney
Francis William Rodney was the fourth son of the seventh Baron Rodney and Corisande, second daughter of the first Lord Wimborne and was born 2nd October 1896, educated at Shrewsbury College and the Royal Military College, Sandhurst. He was appointed to the 5th (Reserve) Battalion in December 1914 and joined the Royal Flying Corps and did duty in Flanders with No. 3 Squadron. On 9th May 1915 when carrying on his observations he was shot down and killed. He was buried at Chocques near Bethune.

Hope this helps a little, unfortunately I do not have a picture of him.

Andy


THANKS, ANDY.
Anyone else who can help me find these photos?
GEERT

#6 CROONAERT

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:05 PM

Geert.

Not any help to your quest, but i thought you might find this memorial of interest. It's in Nelson, Lancashire - one of my neighbouring towns - and I happened to take this pic just this morning (whilst (supposedly)at work!!! ph34r.gif ).

Dave

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#7 Myrtle

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:11 PM

Geert
If you contact Shrewsbury College you may find that they have a photograph of 2/Lt Rodney in their archive.
Myrtle

#8 DaveBrigg

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:48 PM

I have a book listing former scouts and leaders who received gallantry awards, with brief outlines of some of the more notable ones. I haven't seen a Roll of Honour listing all scouts killed though, and doubt if an accurate list could have been compiled, even at the time.

#9 wulsten

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:52 PM

Again slightly off topic but associated with the scouts this is one of several tablets laid as a memorial to Porthill, Staffs

#10 BeppoSapone

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:05 AM

I have mentioned this before in this forum, but will repeat it now.

Scouts in their mid teens were sent out to France during WW1. They were attached to the Friends Ambulance Unit and did simple tasks.

Their papers, complete with photographs, survive in the Friends Library in London's Euston Road.

IIRC at a later stage in the war Conscientious Objectors replaced the Scouts with the FAU.

#11 Geert Spillebeen

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 09:18 AM

QUOTE (DaveBrigg @ Jan 8 2007, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a book listing former scouts and leaders who received gallantry awards, with brief outlines of some of the more notable ones. I haven't seen a Roll of Honour listing all scouts killed though, and doubt if an accurate list could have been compiled, even at the time.

Dave,
Would there be any trace of these 3 men in that book? (If so, quote pls.)
2LT M.C.Wroughton, 12 Royal Lancers, died 30 Oct.1914
2LT W.F.Rodney, Rifle Brigade (att. to Royal Flying Corps), died 9 May 1915
2LT Marc A.P. Noble, Royal Field Artillery, 1 July 1917

Tx. GEERT

#12 Geert Spillebeen

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    True stories

Posted 08 January 2007 - 09:19 AM

QUOTE (wulsten @ Jan 8 2007, 12:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again slightly off topic but associated with the scouts this is one of several tablets laid as a memorial to Porthill, Staffs

Thanks for the picture! GEERT

#13 Geert Spillebeen

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 09:28 AM

QUOTE (BeppoSapone @ Jan 8 2007, 01:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have mentioned this before in this forum, but will repeat it now.

Scouts in their mid teens were sent out to France during WW1. They were attached to the Friends Ambulance Unit and did simple tasks.

Their papers, complete with photographs, survive in the Friends Library in London's Euston Road.

IIRC at a later stage in the war Conscientious Objectors replaced the Scouts with the FAU.

Thanks,"Beppo". I may find someone who can take a copy of a picture in London. Or else... would there be a Forum member who has one?
My main question of course remains : who has a pic of the 3 fallen scout pioneers: 2Lt.MC Wroughton, 2Lt.WF Rodney, 2LtMAP Noble.

GEERT (Flanders, Be.)

#14 Patrick H

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 03:46 PM

As a matter of interest the 20 boys at the first Scout Camp at Brownsea were not Scouts at all. They were boys supplied by the Boy's Brigade (Bournemouth I believe) and a public school ( I believe Eton)

The camp was an experiment by BP at a time when he was a member of the Boy's brigade and thinking of starting his own movement

Patrick

#15 Geert Spillebeen

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 04:07 PM

QUOTE (Patrick H @ Jan 8 2007, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a matter of interest the 20 boys at the first Scout Camp at Brownsea were not Scouts at all. They were boys supplied by the Boy's Brigade (Bournemouth I believe) and a public school ( I believe Eton)

The camp was an experiment by BP at a time when he was a member of the Boy's brigade and thinking of starting his own movement

Patrick

Right, Patrick. They came from Boys' Brigades (like the 1st Bournemouth B'B), and some were kids of friends, came from public schools, indeed.
They were no Boy Scouts yet, BUT this was the beginning of the world movement. Scouts all over the world commemorate this centannial: 1907-2007 during the Jamboree in London, this summer.
And I would like to add something special: some of these pioneer boys died in Flandersand France in 1914-1918.
Who can HELP me find PICTURES of
2LT M.C.Wroughton, 12 Royal Lancers, died 30 Oct.1914
2LT W.F.Rodney, Rifle Brigade (att. to Royal Flying Corps), died 9 May 1915
2LT Marc A.P. Noble, Royal Field Artillery, 1 July 1917

GEERT

#16 Myrtle

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 04:35 PM

QUOTE (Myrtle @ Jan 7 2007, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Geert
If you contact Shrewsbury College you may find that they have a photograph of 2/Lt Rodney in their archive.
Myrtle



Geert just in case you have not seen this.

#17 Geert Spillebeen

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 06:50 PM

QUOTE (Myrtle @ Jan 8 2007, 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Geert just in case you have not seen this.

Thanks for the hint, Myrtle. I wrote Shrewsbury College two months ago. They forwarded my e-mail to the 'Foundation Office'. Then all remained silent. I insisted today. We'll see. Not much hope.
GEERT

#18 DaveBrigg

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:34 PM

QUOTE (Geert Spillebeen @ Jan 8 2007, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dave,
Would there be any trace of these 3 men in that book? (If so, quote pls.)

Tx. GEERT

Sorry - no mention. You may have more success posting separate threads with each name and regiment mentioned in the title. If all else fails, the local newspaper for the hometown of a casualty would often print a picture once the death had been confirmed.
Good luck in your hunt
Dave

#19 mruk

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 11:28 AM

Sorry, it's not directly related to Brownsea Camp, and I have raised this question elsewhere, more in jest than anything else, but has anyone noticed the picture in the 'Barlow House' in 'Coronation Street'? It hangs in the entrance to the doorway, and looks what appears to be a Boy Scout with an angel standing before him. I'm sure it must have something to do with the creed and ethos of the movement, but does anyone know what the picture is?

Cheers,
Dave

#20 The Majors Batman

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:01 AM

Maybe sometime after your first posting but have you ever come across this site http://www.wintonfor....uk/scouts.html one died from the effects of gas in 1926.


I am in the process of picking up old posting apertaining to Bournemouth using my local knowledge

#21 NigelS

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 12:23 PM

... and do you know if there is a 'Scouts Roll of Honour' for WW1?


Don't think this was answered when the thread was originally active, and it may not have been available then, but the Scout Association does now have its WW1 (and WWII) rolls of honour available on line Click; As was suggested earlier, I doubt that these are complete as they are probably only as good as notifications that would have been given by family members.

....but has anyone noticed the picture in the 'Barlow House' in 'Coronation Street'? It hangs in the entrance to the doorway, and looks what appears to be a Boy Scout with an angel standing before him. I'm sure it must have something to do with the creed and ethos of the movement, but does anyone know what the picture is?


Again rather late, but it appears to be 'The Pathfinder' by Ernest Carlos Click

NigelS

#22 Nawbus

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:09 PM

Don't think this was answered when the thread was originally active, and it may not have been available then, but the Scout Association does now have its WW1 (and WWII) rolls of honour available on line Click; As was suggested earlier, I doubt that these are complete as they are probably only as good as notifications that would have been given by family members.

NigelS


Nigel,

You're right, the SA's roll of honour is compiled with the information they know about and when members ask for names to be added. The names of the men from my Troop have recently been added.

Nick

#23 Lancashire Fusilier

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:12 PM

Hi,
I am still a rookie on this forum.
I am leading a research about the link between <u>WW1 and the First Boy Scouts</u>.
As you may know 2007 is the 100th anniversary of the first Boy Scout Camp, a test camp in august 1907 on Bronwsea Island. Baden Powell took some 20 boys to that camp to test his scouting theories.

Some of these boys died a few years later during WW1 in Flanders & France.
I have quite a bit of information about some of them, BUT NO PICTURES.
Could someone <u>help me find photographs </u> of :
2LT M.C.Wroughton, 12 Royal Lancers, died 30 Oct.1914
2LT W.F.Rodney, Rifle Brigade (att. to Royal Flying Corps), died 9 May 1915
2LT Marc A.P. Noble, Royal Field Artillery, 1 July 1917

Any information is welcome.


Greets, GEERT <img src="http://1914-1918.inv...DIR#>/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />


Geert,

Here is some WW1 Boy Scout information, which may be of interest to you. It comes from an excellent book on British Uniforms 1914-18 by John Bodsworth, pages 395-396.

British Boy Scouts were the subject of a War Office letter No.144/Miscellaneous/3098(C1) dated 10th August 1914 :-
" The service of Boy Scouts has been placed at the disposal of the Government, and General and other Officers Commanding who desire to avail themselves of their services should communicate with the County Commissioners. The Boy Scouts would be capable of carrying out such duties as the following, in uniform and equipped :-
a. Guarding or patrolling bridges, culverts, railway and telegraph lines, stores, etc, against damage by individuals.
b. Collecting information as to available supplies, transport and accomodation etc.
c. Handing out notices to inhabitants and other duties connected with billeting.
d. Carrying our relief measures among inhabitants.
e. Carrying out communications by means of dispatch riders, signallers, wireless beacons etc.
f. Assisting families of men employed in defence duties, or sick and wounded, in their homes.
g. Establishing first aid dressing stations, or temporary hospitals, refuges, dispensaries, soup kitchens, etc.
h. Acting as local guides and orderlies etc.
j. Forwarding dispatches dropped by aircraft.
k. Sea Scouts can assist Coastguards in their duties, and can assist in guiding friendly vessels in unbouyed and unlighted waters.

By November 24, 1914, the use of Boy Scouts and Cadets had been modified by War Office letter No.114/Miscellaneous/3302.
" The Army Council have recently had under consideration the question of the continued employment of boy scouts and Cadets of recognised Cadet Units in Commands, and have decided that to ensure uniformity in their employment the following conditions must be enforced.
1. That no boy scout or recognised cadet is to be employed on any military or semi-military duty such as the protection of or watching any vunerable points, or stores, or in situations where there is any possibility of their being brought into contact with the ememy.
2. That while scouts or recognised cadets may in future be employed as orderlies, messengers, telephone operators, or on other light duties connected with military offices, such appointments must result in saving the employment of a serving soldier.
3. That no scout or recognised cadet may be employed who is liable to attend school.
4. That no scout or recognised cadet is to be paid more that 1s 6d per diem.

Boy Scouts were awarded a War Service badge, to be worn above the uniform right breast pocket.
The 1914 War Service badge was awarded for 28 days unpaid service.
The 1918 War Service badge was awarded for 50 days unpaid service.
About 80,000 War Services badges were awarded during the war.

Regards,
LF

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#24 Lancashire Fusilier

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:16 PM

Photograph of a mixed group of soldiers, sailors and marines with 4 Boy Scout/ Sea Scout helpers. ( same book page 396 )

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#25 June Underwood

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:36 PM

It's a bit late in the day now, but I have a photo of 2nd Lt Musgrave Cazenove (Bob) Wroughton. If it's still needed I'll post it.
June