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1907 wilkinson bayonet .


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#1 steve140968

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 08:59 PM

Hi , i'm looking to buy a 1907 pattern wilkinson bayonet and was wondering how much i could expect to pay . Also any suggestions as to where to look and and what to look for and what to walk away from would be a great help , thanks . Steve . wink.gif

#2 Andrew Upton

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 09:20 PM

QUOTE (steve140968 @ Feb 1 2007, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi , i'm looking to buy a 1907 pattern wilkinson bayonet and was wondering how much i could expect to pay . Also any suggestions as to where to look and and what to look for and what to walk away from would be a great help , thanks . Steve . wink.gif


Just a few threads on similar subjects that might be of use:

http://1914-1918.inv...i...=50006&st=0

http://1914-1918.inv...i...604&hl=1907

http://1914-1918.inv...i...061&hl=1907

http://1914-1918.inv...i...480&hl=1907

#3 Pete1052

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 09:20 PM

I have a rusty one with no scabbard that I use as a fireplace poker. It was made in 1917 and is covered with inspection marks and bears the letters KOMR.

#4 joantel

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 09:45 PM

They seem to turn up quite often on Ebay,just had a quick look,couple going for around 60,not sure if thats a good deal or not,someone will be able to give you better advise on prices.


Joan

#5 4thGordons

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 03:24 AM

60 pounds would be about twice (maybe thrice) the price they are going for on Ebay.
There are several sellers (one in colorado and another in alabama) who have lots for sale - the "buy it now price" is about $40.00 plus shipping. Makers are varied (mine were Sanderson). They are packed in cosmoline and take a bit of cleaning but once you get through that they are in good shape. Most have post war inspection dates (20s and 30s) in addition to the original ones. I suspect that they are from Indian stocks although I cannot verify this. I bought a couple and was happy with what I got.

CAVEAT EMPTOR! just a note - there are several retailers in the US who now offer REPRODUCTION p1907 bayonets and scabbards (why? who knows!! but I got an ad in the post for them today) P1907 with quillon, P1903, WWII Jungle Carbine (no5 rifle) and M1917/P14 blades are also being offered. I have no doubt that weeks or months down the line these will emerge on the market as "mint condition" examples for unsuspecting buyers. I have no idea what sort of markings are on these or how "good" they are but they are there in abundance - several web sites have them listed also.

#6 auchonvillerssomme

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 06:55 AM

In the UK 60 quid should get you decent example WW1 marked.

Mick

#7 joantel

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 10:09 AM

QUOTE (4thGordons @ Feb 2 2007, 03:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
60 pounds would be about twice (maybe thrice) the price they are going for on Ebay.
There are several sellers (one in colorado and another in alabama) who have lots for sale - the "buy it now price" is about $40.00 plus shipping. Makers are varied (mine were Sanderson). They are packed in cosmoline and take a bit of cleaning but once you get through that they are in good shape. Most have post war inspection dates (20s and 30s) in addition to the original ones. I suspect that they are from Indian stocks although I cannot verify this. I bought a couple and was happy with what I got.

CAVEAT EMPTOR! just a note - there are several retailers in the US who now offer REPRODUCTION p1907 bayonets and scabbards (why? who knows!! but I got an ad in the post for them today) P1907 with quillon, P1903, WWII Jungle Carbine (no5 rifle) and M1917/P14 blades are also being offered. I have no doubt that weeks or months down the line these will emerge on the market as "mint condition" examples for unsuspecting buyers. I have no idea what sort of markings are on these or how "good" they are but they are there in abundance - several web sites have them listed also.


The price I quoted of 60 was for a couple on Ebay.co.uk.,so if that is three times what they cost over the pond,then that must be the place to purchase one from,not sure what the postage would be.


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#8 Grovetown

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 10:28 AM

QUOTE (auchonvillerssomme @ Feb 2 2007, 06:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In the UK 60 quid should get you decent example WW1 marked.

Mick
I agree with Mick because, to my mind, what you don't want is the inspection/ re-issue/ Home Guard marks from the 20s, 30s and 40s. You can get 'em for 20-40 - but they're not ideal; and have post-war, literally, stamped all over them.

Best wishes,

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#9 Devils Own

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 10:50 AM

You are better of seeing a bayonet before you buy it, if you want the real deal.

Buy it from a militaria fair, like War and Peace or Miliitary Odyssey and you can assess it more thoroughly.

Steve

#10 joantel

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 11:01 AM

QUOTE (Devils Own @ Feb 2 2007, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You are better of seeing a bayonet before you buy it, if you want the real deal.

Buy it from a militaria fair, like War and Peace or Miliitary Odyssey and you can assess it more thoroughly.

Steve


That is o.k. if you can get to these militaria fairs,there are some fine examples of militaria for sale on auction sites,quite a few sellers on auction sites obtain their wares from other sources like fairs,it is the same as anything else,buyer beware,know your seller,we have had some nice items from on line auctions.


Joan

#11 steve140968

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 12:58 PM

Hi , thanks everyone . It would seem then that UP TO 60 would be about right . Unfortuanately i'm probably not going to be able to make one of the fairs so i'll probably end up getting one from somewhere like e-bay . Grovetown , you are correct with what you said as i didn't really want a re-issue ! Would i be right then in saying that if i wanted one that had been issued and used in the great war then i should be looking for one stamped anywhere between 1914 - 1918 with no re-issue stamps ? There also seems to be several different makers ! Would anyone know whether the Middlesex regiment would have been issued any particular makers bayonet around about 1916/17 ? Thankyou everyone once again , Steve . wink.gif

#12 montbrehain

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 02:07 PM

Heres a few pics i thought may be of interest ? the Middle one is a repro, to which the hook quillion has been added . The bayonet and scabbard is an Australian (Lithgow) 1916 dated. I bought them years ago and cant rightly remember what I paid ???
Attached File  ctmpphpTaJRqhonce.jpg   90.8KB   15 downloads

Attached File  ctmpphpzBtMUFonce.jpg   80.8KB   8 downloads

Attached File  ctmpphpTsH1ltonce.jpg   55.53KB   6 downloads

#13 TonyE

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 05:28 PM

The bayonets issued to any unit would have been any manufacturer, depending what was available at the time when a particular man was issued with his kit. Also, replacements were often sent to their new unit complete with rifle and bayonet, so any bayonet could end up anywhere.

Regards
TonyE

#14 steve140968

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 08:13 PM

wink.gif Thanks guys ! Was it normal practice for these bayonets to be sharpened ??? Also what is the best way to look after one , or is best left alone , many thanks , Steve .

#15 Heatseeker

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 10:02 PM

QUOTE (steve140968 @ Feb 1 2007, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi , i'm looking to buy a 1907 pattern wilkinson bayonet and was wondering how much i could expect to pay . Also any suggestions as to where to look and and what to look for and what to walk away from would be a great help , thanks . Steve . wink.gif


There are plenty of 1907 bayonets getting around on eBay for around the 20 pound mark, but, while they are generally fine examples, what you get is a bit of a lucky dip.

If you're after "just" a 1907 bayonet, that's fine, but if you are a Great War collector, it will be a bit of a quest.

Like rifles, bayonets were serviced ... there are plenty of 1913-1918 .303 rifles getting about that were re-built as much as three time after the war - sometimes as late as the 1950s.

So it is bayonets - you'll find plenty dated 1908-1918 manufactures, but most you'll encounter will have post war inspection dates and various obscure "chicken scratch" ownership markings.

Only in very rare cases will you encounter a 1908-1913 British bayonet with an intact hooked quillon, but what many collectors don't realise is that from 1913 to sometime in 1916, Pattern 07 bayonets with the straight hilt did not have a clearance hole, which was often drilled during refurb.

The only intact "Great War" bayonet in my collection is a March 1914 Enfield which has never been refurbished. I have also been lucky enough to land a 1913 Enfield which had the quillon lopped in 1915 but no clearance hole drilled, and a 1911 Enfield which has no inspection marks and has had the quillon roughly removed, perhaps at unit level.

None of these bayonets cost me a premium, but it did take a bit of sorting through literally piles of bayonets to track them down.

So to answer your question "garden variety" Pattern 1907 bayonets are plentiful and cheap, but intact Great War examples are harder to find, and will not necessarily attract a premium price.

This very nice JAC (Chapman) December 1915 Pattern 1907 in original condition without a clearance hole and minus a scabbard recently went for a "buy it now" price on eBay of 85 pounds:

http://cgi.ebay.com....i...p;rd=1&rd=1

Sure, it was a bit more than you'd pay for a bayonet with scabbard, but I don't think it was outrageous.

Here's a few of the bayos from my collection (Enfield 1913, quillon removed in 1915 but no clearance hole drilled in the pommel. There is a 1915 inspection stamp on the other side of the blade - which is where you find them - but the bayonet is in the conifguration it would have served throughout the Great War):

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#16 Heatseeker

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 10:10 PM

Here's a few more ... the top one is a 1917 Wilkinson with clearance hole (standard on British bayonets after mid 1916, but only introduced on Australian and Indian '07s post war), a completely intact March, 1914, Enfield, and a 1911 Enfield which has had the quillon roughly removed and been sharpened, but it has no inspection stamps and no clearance hole in the pommel. Note the "Sold out of Service" (-><-) stamp on the pommel.

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#17 Heatseeker

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 10:17 PM

And to really make you drool ... here's my Great War straight cross hilt bayonets with a 1913 Enfield and 1915 Lithgow hooked quillon Pattern '07s (note that neither of the "hookies" have holes in the pommels ... beware any hooky with a clearance hole!)

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#18 montbrehain

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 02:11 AM

dont you just hate that ?? hahahaha

#19 walrus

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 02:45 AM

Heatseeker,

You are most definitely OFF my Christmas card list.

I am now officially VERY JEALOUS! smile.gif

Tom (the Walrus)

#20 auchonvillerssomme

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 07:34 AM

QUOTE (Heatseeker @ Feb 2 2007, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are plenty of 1907 bayonets getting around on eBay for around the 20 pound mark, but, while they are generally fine examples, what you get is a bit of a lucky dip.


Really?....what ebay are you looking at?

Mick

#21 Grovetown

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 10:27 AM

QUOTE (Heatseeker @ Feb 2 2007, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
what many collectors don't realise is that from 1913 to sometime in 1916, Pattern 07 bayonets with the straight hilt did not have a clearance hole, which was often drilled during refurb.
Things you didn't know Part #429. On reading this I checked my three; and - happily - two of them happen to be undrilled; one EFD and one Wilkinson, and both 1916.

Best wishes,

Grovetown.

#22 montbrehain

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 10:36 AM

I mentioned a repro bayonet in my pics ? I mean one that has a Hook quillion fitted, well A mate of mine has done a few of these repros. So what you do is find your worst c##ppiest bayonet (wouldnt want spoil a good one) and thats the one you let him do. usually they have a clearence hole , so he welds that up to. what do we do with these repros ?? well I could tell you but then Id have to bayonet you to death !!!! smile.gif

#23 Heatseeker

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 12:55 PM

QUOTE (auchonvillerssomme @ Feb 3 2007, 07:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Really?....what ebay are you looking at?

Mick


Regards plenty of "garden variety" Pattern '07 bayonets for around the 20 pound mark (plus postage):

Buy it now US $44:
http://cgi.ebay.com....1QQcmdZViewItem

Buy it now US $44.99:
http://cgi.ebay.com....1QQcmdZViewItem

Buy it now US $39.99 (no scabbard):
http://cgi.ebay.com....1QQcmdZViewItem

And I could go on ...

Of course, these bayonets seem to be late or early post war era which have been refurbed inbetween the wars, but you might jag an intact early Great War example without a clearance hole - if you bought a lot of bayos sight unseen.

I think the intact early Pattern 07s with straight cross piece and no clearance holes are the best value collectables ... there were actually fewer of them made than the hookies, and because they mainly saw heavy use, most were upgraded (if they weren't lost on the battlefield) and drilled with a clearance hole (of course, by stating this, I may have driven the prices through the roof ... but at least I have my little stash!).

#24 Heatseeker

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE (montbrehain @ Feb 3 2007, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I mentioned a repro bayonet in my pics ? I mean one that has a Hook quillion fitted, well A mate of mine has done a few of these repros. So what you do is find your worst c##ppiest bayonet (wouldnt want spoil a good one) and thats the one you let him do. usually they have a clearence hole , so he welds that up to. what do we do with these repros ?? well I could tell you but then Id have to bayonet you to death !!!! smile.gif


Ouch! No doubt the unwary will be snared by them down the track.

Also, I'd be suspicious of the pedigree of that 1916 Lithgow Hooky ... they stopped making them in 1915. The Lithgow and Ishy bayonets are prime candidates for fakes as they did not have a clearance hole until after the war, however the manufacture date is often a giveaway (I've knocked back 1917 and 1919 Lithgow Hookies).

#25 Heatseeker

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 01:00 PM

QUOTE (Grovetown @ Feb 3 2007, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Things you didn't know Part #429. On reading this I checked my three; and - happily - two of them happen to be undrilled; one EFD and one Wilkonson, and both 1916.

Best wishes,

Grovetown.


There you go - good pickups ... told you they were lurking around!