18 replies to this topic

[John Morcombe]

 Fitzsimons_JB_RFC_grave.jpg   68.99K   3 downloads

Can anyone throw light on what happened to this chap? Headstone reads "John Bernard Fitzsimons, killed while testing a new aeroplane at Hendon on 26th March 1917, after having served in France for 6 months as Sec. lieut. in the R.F.C."

Cannot find him in MICs nor on CWGC. The only MIC for a John B. Fitzsimons is an A.S.C. Private.

[michaeldr]

One entry in LG for John Bernard Fitzsimons

link might work http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...PageDuplicate=n       &issueNumber=29281&pageNumber=0&SearchFor=John Bernard Fitzsimons&selMedalType=&selHonourType=

In case not
Gazette issue 29281 pub. 31st Aug. 1915 page 8 of 16
8706 Supplement to the London Gazette, 1 September 1915

Special Reserve of Officers
Supplementary or Regular Units or Corps
Royal Flying Corps
Military Wing
The undermentioned to be Second Lieutenants (on probation):-
John Bernard Fitzsimons. Dated 1st September 1915


regards
Michael

[michaeldr]

to further entries
Confirmed in rank per LG, 29 Nov 1915
Appointed Flying Officer 20th Nov 1915, per LG, 3 Dec 1915

[Terry Denham]

He is not listed in 'Airmen Died'.

Possibly a civilian pilot with a manufacturer at the time of death.

[chrisharley9]

Dc Ref is Hendon 3a 520 which shows John B Fitzsimons age 20

Chris

[per ardua per mare per terram]

The MICs are for the army, the RAF MiCs have not been released to the public yet and given his dates for commission he probably got a pair, so that would be an RAF issue.

Have you tried contacting RAF Hendon research & archives?

[Boreenatra]

After I took the picture the other day, I emailed Hendon and await a reply. Anybody know what type of warplane he was flying. Regards Steve

[Will O'Brien]

I'm wondering if Terry Denham has hit the nail on the head. The inscription is quite unusual. It's the phrase 'after having served in France for 6 months as 2nd Lieutenant in the RFC' which makes me think he wasn't currently serving when the crash happened. Perhaps he'd been discharged after serving 6 months due to ill health or injury.

[mickdavis]

He was with the 18th Wing School of Instruction, which incorporated the civilian schools at Hendon (GW, Beatty etc). I don't know of any records for that unit's losses but the machine was probably either a Caudron (G.II or G.III) or a G.W. XV. I suspect he was a former RFC ground officer undergoing pilot training.

[Boreenatra]

While looking for something else, I came across him here


http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/wiki/Aviators...cates_-_UK_1915

Some famous names are included.

Regards Steve

[Simon Birch]

Hi,

I suspect this is his AIR 76 file.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=4

Simon

[centurion]

He was with the 18th Wing School of Instruction, which incorporated the civilian schools at Hendon (GW, Beatty etc). I don't know of any records for that unit's losses but the machine was probably either a Caudron (G.II or G.III) or a G.W. XV. I suspect he was a former RFC ground officer undergoing pilot training.

Unlikely if he got his aviators certificate in 1915 but he wasn't killed until 1917

[centurion]

Aircraft manufacturers using Hendon for testing at the period of death were Handley Page, Airco and Graham White (which built under license for other manufacturers). I believe HP lost one of the early o/100s sometime around then. It was usual practice for RFC and RNAS personnel released back to the manufacturers to be treated as civilians but retain their commissions so there might just be a non comm here.

[NigelS]

From Flight of March 22nd  1917 (just four days before his death) JB Fitzsimons is given as  flying for F. Nestler Ltd; it appears from the wording of this article that the plane in which he was killed  might have been a prototype and the first (and last?) that the company produced; the 2nd and 3rd articles gives details of the accident & inquest (note that a 2nd 'm' has been added to his surname), but not the type of plane involved. A search on Nestler indicates that the company may also have been  involved in hangar construction (?)

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/vie...arch=Fitzsimons

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/vie...rch=fitzsimmons

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/vie...rch=fitzsimmons

There is, unfortunately, no mention of the accident or an obit. in The Times

EDIT: searching back further in the Flight Archive finds, in 1914, a 'JB Fitzsimons' (given as 'Hon. Sec.' of the 'Ilford Model Aero Club') inquiring about anemometers, as well as later references to his training, Aviator Certificate & military service

EDIT II: there seems to be very little information - at least on the web - about Nestler, but there is this:
http://www.aviastar.org/manufacturers/1545.html which gives that only one plane was ever produced  by the company, and that it did crash in 1917; the same site even has a photograph of the Nestler 'Scout'  http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/nestler_scout.php

NigelS

[centurion]

Well done. Nestler did indeed produce a very compact little  scout and, checking, a  J B Fitzsimmons (2 ms note) was engaged - not as a test pilot but as a demonstrator of its aerobatic capability (it was it seems exceedingly manoeuvrable being better than either the Bristol Scout and the Nieuport Bebe). After a number of demos at Hendon it crashed on the date shown killing Fitzsimmons. It was not, however, Nestler's only aircraft as a Mk 2 was built but may or may not have been flown as doubt was cast upon the structural safety of the rear spar. (sounds a little like the final scenes of the Blue Max film !). Now what we need to know was did Fitzsimmons (or Fitzsimons) still hold their commission (possibly in the reserve) at the time? He obviously had experience of chucking an aircraft around or he wouldn't have been hired.

The Nestler was built by a British firm that had taken over an Italian aircraft company - the designer was French!

P S they also built collapsible hangars

[Dolphin]

The Nestler Scout is seen below.

Gareth

Attached Files

•  006_Nestler_Scout.jpg   44.63K   0 downloads

[centurion]

Fitzsimmons was a pupil of Dover County School. On leaving he became a clerk with the Ports Authority but was also a member of the 12th London Regiment. He spent a year in France and was commissioned from private. At what point he transfered to the RFC is unclear but he had been interested in aviation before the war being a leading light in the Dover Model Flying Club. Strangely his school magazine says he learnt to fly after being invalided out of the army. (There are a number of discrepancies between the grave stone and other accounts - including the spelling of his name!).

He was killed when the wings on his aircraft failed at 400ft as he pulled out of a sharp turn part of one breaking away, the aircraft crashed through the roof of some airfield sheds. The Nestler scout had a very strong and rigid front spar and a very light and flexible rear one - a combination since fingered as a cause of flutter and similar problems.

So he was a civilian at death but I'd say that death was definitely war related.

[Boreenatra]

Centurion, Nigel and all who contributed

We can say he was ex-service at the very least. Thanks for your research and once again thanks to this forum we can remember more than just a name on a headstone. By the way, the memorial is at the City Of London Cemetery.

Regards Steve

[MaggieSK]

We have Bernard Fitzsimon on the Dover War Memorial Project website - the information was kindly supplied  recently by Andrew Dawrant of the Royal Aero Club Trust.

Bernard is on part of our list of civilian casualties
here (one needs to scroll down a bit)

We have the family living at Crabble Hill in Dover in 1909 and 1910, and hear that they were at Lower Road in 1911.

I am so pleased to learn about him, and it's so good we can remember him.