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German 116th Reserve Regiment


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#1 joerookery

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 10:04 PM

Help me Mr. Wizard! According to the histories of the 251 divisions I have a big anomaly. I'm researching the 11th Army in Serbia The 116th reserve regiment shows up in the 103rd division of the IV Reserve Corps as well as the 25th reserve division in III Corps. Which way do I go? What is the real order of battle? What would be correct? Help me and thank you very much advance.

#2 Jack Sheldon

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 10:43 PM

Hi Joe

Complex issue this one. RIR 116 went to war as part of 49 Res Brigade, 25th Res Div, XVIII Res Corps. By 15 May 1915 it was part of 205 Inf Brigade with 103rd Inf Division. Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the regimental history which covers the Serbian period, but scanning other parts of the history, I would go with 103 Inf Div. According to Volume 9 of the German Official History, during the Serbian campaign 103rd and 101st Inf Divs were under command of Generalleutnant Kosch (X Reserve Corps), forming, as you say, part of Eleventh Army.

Hope this helps a bit

Jack

#3 joerookery

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 01:57 PM

Thanks Jack!

Confusion reigns supreme here! Even my corps designations do not match up. Here is what I currently have for an order of battle
III Corps.
6th Division.
20th Regiment.
24th Regiment.
64th Regiment

25th Reserve Division.
116th Reserve Regiment.
118th Reserve Regiment.
83rd Reserve Regiment.
168th Regiment


IV Reserve Corps
101st Division.
45th Regiment.
59th Regiment.
146 Regiment

103rd Division
32nd Regiment.
71st Regiment.
116th Reserve Regiment

X Reserve Corps.
105th Division.
21st Regiment.
122nd Fusilier Regiment.
129th Regiment

107th Division.
52nd Reserve Regiment.
227th Reserve Regiment.
232nd Reserve Regiment

XXII Reserve Corps.
11th Bavarian Division.
3rd Bavarian Regiment.
22nd Bavarian Regiment.
13th Bavarian Reserve Regiment
43rd Reserve Division.
201st Reserve Regiment.
202nd Reserve Regiment.
203rd Reserve Regiment
204th Reserve Regiment.
15th Reserve Jäger Battalion

AlpenKorps Division

Something is really fishy and I don't have a solution.

#4 Jack Sheldon

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 02:38 PM

Dredging through Vol 9 of the Official History reveals various ORBATS, depending on the actual operations, but if we take the assault over the Save and the Donau 4 Oct 15 as an example, the German elements appear to be:

Eleventh Army: Gen der Artillerie von Gallwitz

III Corps: Gen der Infanterie von Lochow
with 25th Res Div and 6th Inf Div

IV Res Corps: Genlt von Winckler
with 11th Bav Div and 105th Inf Div (In Reserve 107th Inf Div)

X Res Corps: Genlt Kosch
with 103rd and 101st Inf Divs

I think that the divs break down as follows:
25th Res: IR 168, RIR 83 & RIR 118
6th: IRs 20, 24 & 64
11th Bav: Bav IRs 3, 22 & Res 13
105th: IRs 21, 122 & 129
107th: RIRs 52, 227 & 232

While we are at it 43rd Res Div had RIRs 201, 202, 203 & 204 (204 left for 218th Inf Div 8 Sep 16). XXII Res Corps appears to have been reinforced and to have been operating elsewhere under command Third Austrian-Hungarian Army.

I hope that there are no errors in this info. Check it through, highlight any problem areas and I shall look again. If any new queries come up, get in touch.

Jack

#5 bob lembke

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 02:40 PM

Joe;

I have not even seen the book, but that of course is no bar to my commenting. Over the years I have seen or read several very knowledgable people warn that this book, not surprisingly, is not revealed truth, and in fact contains a considerable number of obvious errors.

Someone whose opinion I valued (perhaps our own Jack!) commented that this book was compiled in considerable haste by intelligence officers (American?). A book like this, even if fairly well done, will unavoidably have a greater or lesser number of errors. I use the German Army Handbook compiled by British intelligence, it is quite useful, and mostly accurate, but contains errors, inaccuracies, and oversimplifications.

I have collected some internal materials from US Army Military Intelligence on the German Army of the Kaiserzeit, and they contain some glaring errors. When I started assembling my roster of the officers and men of Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment (Flammenwerfer), I only had two names, my father, and that of the founder and CO of the regiment, Maj. Dr. Bernhard Reddemann, and at first I had the latter wrong, as US Military Intelligence had his first name quite wrong, and I think I have an internal document from US Military Intelligence from 1928, and they still had it wrong. There was a Leutnant Reddemann in the unit, and they promoted him to regimental commander, it seems. (I now have about 1200 men in my unit roster.)

As an aside (one of my specialties), if anyone has the name of a officer or a soldier of the flame regiment, or another German flame unit (there were one or two), contact me; I will happily look him up and tell you if I have anything on him, and also add him or the new information to the roster. As the unit had surprisingly few casualties (the oft-exploding FW or the Flamm=Pionier burning up and writhing in pain are largely literary inventions, thank you Alistair Horne), and not that many men passed thru the unit, although it was quite large, about 15 companies, plus the use of someone else's battalion as a depot unit.

If anyone has a Militaer=Pass oder Soldbuch from this unit, the provision of a copy will instantly provide the donor with a free pass to Paradise and a seat to the right of the Prophet (Blessed be His Name!), never mind the access to the oft-cited (and quite comly) 72 virgins. Additionally, I would be happy to provide a copy of another equally choice Militaer=Pass. I once sent a copy of my father's to a leading German collector, and he was so swept away that he sent me five choice ones, including one from the Sturm=Batalliion Nr. 5 (Rohr) that taught me valuable things about that unit; specifically, where they got their machine-gunners from.

Bob Lembke

#6 bob lembke

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 02:47 PM

Joe;

I just saw Jack's post; I have a book about the assault over the Danube, written by a participant, and if that action is important to you I could thumb thru it and look for something it might contain on a point important to you. The book, of course, does not contain an index.

But not before midnight. I have already done 10 tax returns in the last two weeks, but I still have one particularily difficult one to finish and post before midnight, and possibly a second. (Yes, they are all my own, except for my wife's 2006 Federal tax return.)

Bob Lembke

#7 joerookery

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 05:57 PM

Thanks guys! You both know what it's like to hit a dead end in researching -- sometimes you need a push.

Yes I'm interested in the assault over the Danube but my real interest is helmets as usual. I have been chasing the scroll helmet problem for years. I finally started writing an article and the order of battle did not pan out. I have found no order of battle information on the non-divisional units -- Gebirgs Maschinengewehr Abteilung 211 -- 250.

Reserve infantry Regiment 116 poses interesting questions as a surviving example exists of the 116 scroll and a diagram of a R116 scroll. I have a wonderful postcard of fusilier Regiment 122. It seems absolutely certain that these helmets were also used on the Somme contrary to all of the references. Any help is appreciated. sad.gif sad.gif

#8 joerookery

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 07:15 PM

My first paltry attempt at the scroll helmet article is online if it interests you.

http://www.pickelhau...ll_helmets.html