Jump to content


Remembered Today:

Photo

Dispatch rider 1915.


18 replies to this topic

#1 Sean.

Sean.

    Major

  • Old Sweats
  • 375 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cork City.Ireland
  • Interests:Royal Munster Fusiliers.

Posted 24 May 2007 - 10:46 PM

Hello again,
This one is of a dispatch rider in 1915, Cork area,
any help again please.
Sean.
Attached File  2.JPG   42.68KB   1 downloads
Attached File  3.JPG   37.17KB   0 downloads

#2 Graham Stewart

Graham Stewart

    Lieut-General

  • Old Sweats
  • 5,082 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Darlington, Co.Durham
  • Interests:Researching and collecting militaria to the Northumberland Fusiliers from the raising of the regiment to 1968, and the new Royal Regiment of Fusiliers from 1968 to present day.
    My other interests are the study of British Army in general, and in particular units raised during the Great War, especially the Volunteer Training Corps/Volunteer Force.

Posted 24 May 2007 - 11:04 PM

Royal Egineers.

Graham.

#3 delta

delta

    Lieut-General

  • Old Sweats
  • 5,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Anna Valley
  • Interests:The First Tank Crews - those who fought at Flers-Courcelette on 15 Sept 1916

Posted 25 May 2007 - 06:52 AM

All RE signals companies contained despatch riders. Suggest you read the first few chapter of Adventures of a Despatch Rider for background http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/16868

It is quite possible that this fellow was also training in Ireland

Stephen

#4 Ram

Ram

    Lieutenant

  • Old Sweats
  • 218 posts

Posted 25 May 2007 - 11:13 AM

The bike is, I think, a Triumph Three and a half Horse Power.

#5 walrus

walrus

    Lieut-Colonel

  • Old Sweats
  • 518 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 May 2007 - 04:17 PM

Two views of a similar machine:





#6 Sean.

Sean.

    Major

  • Old Sweats
  • 375 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cork City.Ireland
  • Interests:Royal Munster Fusiliers.

Posted 25 May 2007 - 05:12 PM

QUOTE (Graham Stewart @ May 25 2007, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Royal Egineers.

Graham.


Thanks Graham that was quick,
Regards Sean

#7 Sean.

Sean.

    Major

  • Old Sweats
  • 375 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cork City.Ireland
  • Interests:Royal Munster Fusiliers.

Posted 25 May 2007 - 05:19 PM

Thanks to all,
Great photos of the bike, yes it is listed on the photo as a BSA or a Triumph, a footnote to the photo said that it had a leather belt which was notorious for sliping in wet weather. Thanks for the link to the book Stephen I did not get a chance to go through it yet but the first letter mentioned Carlow Barracks, looking up the RE site I found that the 33rd company were stationed in Cork 1914.
So once again many thanks,
regards,
Sean.

#8 bbroadside

bbroadside

    Lance-Corporal

  • Members2
  • 12 posts

Posted 27 May 2007 - 06:03 AM

Those are wonderful pictures. I'm interested in the motorcyles (and biycles) of the era and know next to nothing about them.

Is three-and-a-half a typical horsepower for the period? I imagine more would be needed if there were a sidecar but I don't know if those were common at the time. Does hp = bhp for these purposes or are there several types of horsepower?

Were motorcycles employed in significant numbers for purposes other than despatch at this time? I'm wondering if there were ever motorcyclist scouts, patrols, provost, etc., or if they could even be used as a sort of "staff car" for officers.

#9 Dan Morton

Dan Morton

    Lieut-Colonel

  • Old Sweats
  • 680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA

Posted 27 May 2007 - 11:32 AM

bbroadside - I highly recommend the book, "Adventures of a Motorcycle Dispatch Rider During the First World War", by Capt. W. H. L. Watson, R.E., Diggory Press, 2006, ISBN: 978-1-84685-046-2. Very readable and a nice memoir.

All the best,
Dan

#10 Raster Scanning

Raster Scanning

    Lieut-Colonel

  • Old Sweats
  • 1,563 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:7th Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment.
    Motorcycling (KLR 650).
    Running.
    Edwardian Bedfordshire photos by Frank Sweetland.
    Collecting military uniforms and equipment.

Posted 27 May 2007 - 02:25 PM

A Triumph Model J I believe. Here is another.

Attached Files

  • Attached File  3aa.JPG   137.64KB   5 downloads


#11 Sean.

Sean.

    Major

  • Old Sweats
  • 375 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cork City.Ireland
  • Interests:Royal Munster Fusiliers.

Posted 27 May 2007 - 08:36 PM

bbroadside,
In stephen's post above he gives a link to the book and it is a great read.
Sean

#12 Terry_Reeves

Terry_Reeves

    Lieut-General

  • Old Sweats
  • 6,009 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 May 2007 - 08:57 PM

It's a 4 hp Model H. Around 50,000 were supplied to British and Allied forces during the war. See my article on the Triumph Company in WW1 here:

http://tinyurl.com/2j9cqu

TR

#13 jpc

jpc

    Lieutenant

  • Old Sweats
  • 218 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Cork, Ireland

Posted 28 May 2007 - 01:01 PM

QUOTE (Sean. @ May 24 2007, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hello again,
This one is of a dispatch rider in 1915, Cork area,
any help again please.
Sean.
Attached File  2.JPG   42.68KB   1 downloads
Attached File  3.JPG   37.17KB   0 downloads


Sean, do you know if this man was from Cork, or do you have his name? If so, I may be able to help with some details.

#14 Sean.

Sean.

    Major

  • Old Sweats
  • 375 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cork City.Ireland
  • Interests:Royal Munster Fusiliers.

Posted 28 May 2007 - 05:40 PM

Hi Jean,
Sorry, no information on the man, the photo is from a book that you may be familiar with " Picture That" A Cork Examiner publication and there are some great photos in it.
Regards,
Sean.

#15 jpc

jpc

    Lieutenant

  • Old Sweats
  • 218 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Cork, Ireland

Posted 28 May 2007 - 10:04 PM

QUOTE (Sean. @ May 28 2007, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Jean,
Sorry, no information on the man, the photo is from a book that you may familiar with " Picture That" A Cork Examiner publication and there are some great photos in it.
Regards,
Sean.


Thanks for the tip Sean, I'll check that out.

#16 Marticelli

Marticelli

    Private

  • Members2
  • 4 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tillicoultry, Clackmannanshire
  • Interests:Despatch riders, machines and equipment, particularly 5th Divisional Signals Coy, Royal Engineers,
    Early tank crews and equipment

Posted 03 March 2012 - 03:47 PM

It's a 4 hp Model H. Around 50,000 were supplied to British and Allied forces during the war. See my article on the Triumph Company in WW1 here:

http://tinyurl.com/2j9cqu

TR


Sorry to disappoint, but the Triumph in post #1 is not a Triumph Model H, as this wasn't introduced until 1915. Its a normal 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub geared, probably 4HP (550cc) model of 1914, with direct belt drive to the rear wheel which contains a Sturmey Archer hub gear and clutch. The Model H has a three speed CS (ie countershaft) Sturmey Archer gearbox with chain primary drive and belt final drive, as seen clearly in post #10.

Its also worth noting that most of the early period despatch riders used their own machines, so were a relatively motley crew. Douglas and Triumph DR machines rose to prominence later when machines were supplied by the War Department and the DRs just rode them.

Martin Shelley, VMCC OEC and Blackburne Marque Specialist

#17 viking_raid

viking_raid

    Sergeant-Major

  • Members3
  • 66 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Newfoundland
  • Interests:WW1 Newfoundland Regiment, and WW1 Newfoundland Naval Reserve Items. - I pay top dollar and take trades.

Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:29 AM

Hey Walrus,

Are they motorcycles restored original bikes ? I just sold an unrestored 1943 WLC, but I would love to find a basket WW1 bike. I'm guessing a better chance of winning the lotto.

VR





Two views of a similar machine:

Posted Image

Posted Image



#18 panthersteve

panthersteve

    Lance-Corporal

  • Members2
  • 6 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brisbane, Australia

Posted 06 March 2012 - 05:45 AM

Is three-and-a-half a typical horsepower for the period? I imagine more would be needed if there were a sidecar but I don't know if those were common at the time. Does hp = bhp for these purposes or are there several types of horsepower?




Three and a half horsepower was typical at that time for a 500 cc motorcycle however it is not a rating of output.

It is,

This measure was instituted by the Royal Automobile Club in Britain and was used to denote the power of early 20th century British cars. Many cars took their names from this figure (hence the Austin Seven and Riley Nine), while others had names such as "40/50 hp", which indicated the RAC figure followed by the true measured power.Taxable horsepower does not reflect developed horsepower; rather, it is a calculated figure based on the engine's bore size, number of cylinders, and a (now archaic) presumption of engine efficiency. As new engines were designed with ever-increasing efficiency, it was no longer a useful measure, but was kept in use by UK regulations which used the rating for tax purposes.

Posted Image

where D is the diameter (or bore) of the cylinder in inches
n is the number of cylinders

This is equal to the displacement in cubic inches divided by 10π then divided again by the stroke in inches.

Since taxable horsepower was computed based on bore and number of cylinders, not based on actual displacement, it gave rise to engines with 'undersquare' dimensions (i.e., relatively small bore), but long stroke; this tended to impose an artificially low limit on rotational speed (rpm), hampering the potential power output and efficiency of the engine.

#19 RobL

RobL

    Brigadier-General

  • Old Sweats
  • 1,987 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The better 'ole
  • Interests:RFC, Tanks, Gallipoli, Mountain Gunners, anything with a motor, wheels or wings

Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:06 AM

The photographs shown in colour are of a restored machine, I know the owner, he also has a Douglas and a 1916 Matchless and sidecar (with vickers machine gun)