11 replies to this topic

[Hett65]

John KERR Morgan left our shores in 1911 for Australia with his wife and settled in Kurri Kurri, near Maitland, NSW where he worked as a miner.   In 1915 he enlisted, and entered France in June 1916 where he was transfered to the 8th Light Trench Mortar Battery and was promoted Serjeant in December 1916.   He was hit in the back by shrapnel in January 1917 and sadly died of his wounds, perforation of the intestine and gas gangrene.
In January 1923 his widow acknowledged receipt of his Memorial Plaque which had been named to John KEN Morgan, a mistake with his second name which was KERR.   Mrs Morgan informed the authorities of this mistake and they acknowledged this but there is nothing on his file after the letter to say what happened with the plaque.
When mistakes like this were made and the authorities informed and admitted the error, did they issue a new Memorial Plaque or had the relatives to just accept it as issued.  
I have had plaques in my collection where they have missed out a middle name but none where the name was incorrect, I am sure someone may have one in their collection.
John  

[John Morcombe]

A replacement was likely issued with correct name. Saw two plaques online for sale recently, where the incorrectly named plaque was being sold along with the correctly named replacement.

[tonyblackpool]

hi john. my g grandfathers was spelt wrong  FREDERICK RODOWAY SHOULD BE  RODAWAY
just down to the chap who set it up i suppose, as all his records are spelt correct, its still with the family but not with me. tony

[John Morcombe]

Hi Tony. Aye, mistakes were made & some never corrected. It must have been distressing enough when the plaque arrived, doubly so to find the surname wrong. I dare say it was a common error for that name. Plenty of plaques were merely glanced at on receipt, then stashed away. A painful business.

[Terry]

An example in my collection, which I have discussed before, is the plaque named to Pte.P.C.Ladds,49th Bn.,CEF. He was killed in action at Courcelette 15 Sept.,1916. His name was Philip Collyer Ladds; the plaque is named to Philys Collyer Ladds. As the plaque came with his medals, badges, documents, original photos,etc. in a fairly large lot, I can only assume that the family retained this plaque despite the spelling error.

[303man]

I have one to JOHH GEORGE COLE quite obviously should be John but again never corrected. Quite a considerable number of the early issued plaques were defective (Spelling/ quality) and had to be returned. I beleive this extract dates to 1921 From 349.  BM/8117/A.G.1.R  (extract) at the beginning of July The serial number then reached in the factory was 410,000 and that plaques were being issued at the rate of 10,000 per week, it is hoped shortly to increase production to 15,000 a week.  At the same time, 18,000 bearing early reference numbers were found to be defective. These defective plaques are being cleared off at the rate of 4,500 a week.

Another eatract from the regulations regarding issue. "It will be realised that the value of the plaque and scroll to the next of kin depends very greatly on absolute accuracy in rank, spelling of names &c inscribed on the memorials, and the very greatest of care and accuracy is necessary in compiling the particulars on army form W.5031.

The last column of this form completed in quintriplicate had the unique plaque reference number if you have a plaque in its original outer envelope you will see part of W5031 cut out with the number stamped on.  The inner white envelope holding the plaque usually had this number pencilled on or at least the last few figures.  

I could write a book on the subject!

[303man]

As a point of interest the award of the memorial plaque was not made in association with any medal entitlement as it was and would be given to the next of Kin.  

Ever wondered why so many casaulty medals have no plaque with them.  It is because the plaque probably went to another family member with the medals going to another.  

No records exist as to the total plaques issued estimates range from 800,000 to 1,100,000 The imperial war museum gives a figure of 1,355.000 however Army General orders state highest reference number issued as 920,230  which as a mid figure appears about right.

Has anyone got a plaque with a reference number higher than 920,230

[Hett65]

Thanks to all who replied to my post and sorry for not getting back sooner, I placed this post and shortly after my computer crashed, and I have just got it back.
It is interesting to see that others have come across this, I was curious as to what would happen when the incorrect name was pointed out to the authorities, and in the case in question they had acknowledged the error but there was nothing on the file to say what happened after they were notified.
From the information posted it appears to be quite a common problem and a number of people had two issued, one incorrect and one correct.   I suppose it can be quite a problem for medal collectors who have a mans medals and are trying to get his Memorial Plaque, and they cannot match it with the medals.  In Morgans case it would cause a problem if someone found the plaque to John KEN Morgan, and did not have the information I had from his file, they would probably not associate the medals of John KERR Morgan with the plaque.
John

[303man]

Further to post No 7  I have found a plaque with the issue number 951863 it was posted to the Next of Kin on 02 May 1922 for a casaulty killed 26/10/17 nearly 5 years earlier.

I am still working on research into the plaque reference numbers. for example plaques;

302518 Posted to NOK 25/11/21
307687 Posted to NOK 09/03/22
335315 Posted to NOK 03/10/22
341089 Posted to NOK 23/12/22

From the above you can start to see how many plaques were dispatched.  All the 300,000 serial no plaques were to Australians

I have 590660 Posted to NOK 21/11/21 for a 30/10.18 Casualty.

As you can see a higher serial number plaque was posted out befor the Australian one in Nov 11

I would be interested if any forum members have plaques in their original outer envelope with the reference number and date posted to the NOK, The casualties date of death. (I do not need the name if you want to keep that anon). But soldiers country he served would be good.

[old owl]

Hett65, on 30 November 2007 - 03:37 PM, said:

John KERR Morgan left our shores in 1911 for Australia with his wife and settled in Kurri Kurri, near Maitland, NSW where he worked as a miner.   In 1915 he enlisted, and entered France in June 1916 where he was transfered to the 8th Light Trench Mortar Battery and was promoted Serjeant in December 1916.   He was hit in the back by shrapnel in January 1917 and sadly died of his wounds, perforation of the intestine and gas gangrene.
In January 1923 his widow acknowledged receipt of his Memorial Plaque which had been named to John KEN Morgan, a mistake with his second name which was KERR.   Mrs Morgan informed the authorities of this mistake and they acknowledged this but there is nothing on his file after the letter to say what happened with the plaque.
When mistakes like this were made and the authorities informed and admitted the error, did they issue a new Memorial Plaque or had the relatives to just accept it as issued.  
I have had plaques in my collection where they have missed out a middle name but none where the name was incorrect, I am sure someone may have one in their collection.
John  

I have a plaque to an Irish Guards officer, Sec.Lt. Albin George Tomkins, his plaque is named to, Abin George Tomkins.  A small error but presumably the family accepted it for what it was and didn't send it back? there are certainly no others with the same or similar name on CWGC.

We also have the double issue plaque.  I have two to the same man,  Cpl.Ernest Ramus, 9th London Regt, Kia 1/7/16.  One plaque has the number 20 outside the leg and no mark on the reverse, the second one has the number 25 inside the leg, but with the stamp on the reverse.

Anyone else have a double issue unique name plaque?

Robert

[old owl]

303man, on 01 March 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

I would be interested if any forum members have plaques in their original outer envelope with the reference number and date posted to the NOK, The casualties date of death. (I do not need the name if you want to keep that anon). But soldiers country he served would be good.

I have a plaque to Capt.Thomas Heathcock, 7th East Yorkshire Regt., Kia 10/7/16, which is still in its original addressed envelope and has the number 280355, posted on 6 Aug 21.

Another to Sec Lt Nelson Petty, 1st Lancs Fus, Kia 28/6/15 at Gallipoli, which has its original addressed envelope with the number 221866, unfortunately the post mark is torn away.

The third one is to Pte John Mitton, 2nd Yorkshire Regt, Kia 9/4/17, which has its original addressed envelope with the number 84014, unfortunately although the envelope is complete there appears to be no postal mark.  This seems to be a very low number for a man killed in 1917?

It seems to be quite unusual to aquire the original mailing packaging with plaques, I suppose that this was generally discarded due to the much stonger card envelope inside.

Hope these are of interest.

Robert

[mobyaes]

Good evening.

I am searching for a plaque to:   18724 Fusilier Harry Jourdan of the 5th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers KIA Gallipoli 21 Sep 15.

He was only 18.  So far no luck but I would like to restore it to his family if it is available for purchase.

Thank you in advance.