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Tay Valley (formerly Fife & Forfar)


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#51 Locheelad

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 03:03 PM

Superb stuff there re the Huli Huli skirt Neil - a belter as they say. Made me seriously chuckle !

By the way - whats a 78 ?

Bob

#52 Tom A McCluskey

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 03:10 PM

Bob,

I thought this was a '78' mellow.gif :

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Aye

Tom McC

#53 truthergw

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 08:32 PM

Thanks for the offer Neil but I have prior engagements up here that I can't get out of. I did try! Red Feathers, even I remember that one. It used to get well thrashed at the New Year. Here's tae yese, wha's like wis.

#54 Doc

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 08:50 PM

Thanks to Tom for a gem of a idea to have a muster of the "Fife & Tayside" Battalion in the Fisherman's this afternoon.
Such a wealth of knowledge around a small pub table! I enjoyed myself and at least my wife Ann, did not have to get
out her current Torey Hayden book to keep her awake!

I proposed that the venue of the next muster should be in the "Black Watch" Pub in Kirkcaldy, opposite the harbour!
(We could also get a few of those Gold Medal pies from Buckhaven.)

#55 Tom A McCluskey

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 02:47 PM

Doc,

It was great to meet everbody. Now that we've all met, I think Kirkcaldy is a good location and venue for the next meet - especially now that the Fifers are the champion 'makers o' pehs and bridies' wink.gif . Possibly a meet round about Easter time would be good and maybe we can get a table for a pub lunch.

Also, after a general consensus, Dundee & Angus to be amended to be Fife & Forfar, as it represent all areas and is our local Yeomanry:

http://www.regiments...cav/fifefor.htm

Hope this is suitable to all and suggestions please for future branch logo for a polo shirt or something...that way it may prevent me from asking 'Orinoco' in the duffel coat if he is here for the forum meeting biggrin.gif

Again, great to meet you all and have a Happy New Year!

Aye

Tom McC

#56 dycer

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 02:58 PM

Tom,
Seems fair that.
I was surprised the Fifers crossed the Bridge as they would have to pay a toll on the return trip.Still the Forfar lot will have to pay if the next meet is in Kirkcaldy.
Doubt I'll make the next meet.I may be up around Easter but it's Tayport then Aberdeen.
George

#57 Doc

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 04:39 PM

QUOTE (Tom A McCluskey @ Dec 31 2007, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Doc,

It was great to meet everbody. Now that we've all met, I think Kirkcaldy is a good location and venue for the next meet - especially now that the Fifers are the champion 'makers o' pehs and bridies' wink.gif . Possibly a meet round about Easter time would be good and maybe we can get a table for a pub lunch.

Also, after a general consensus, Dundee & Angus to be amended to be Fife & Forfar, as it represent all areas and is our local Yeomanry:

http://www.regiments...cav/fifefor.htm

Hope this is suitable to all and suggestions please for future branch logo for a polo shirt or something...that way it may prevent me from asking 'Orinoco' in the duffel coat if he is here for the forum meeting biggrin.gif

Again, great to meet you all and have a Happy New Year!

Aye

Tom McC


Tom,

Good idea about the polo shirt! Another branch pis#-up/ meeting would be great, however I will be still at sea around Easter. I am not due to pay off from my next ship until about mid May. huh.gif


A Happy New Year to you and all the Forum members

#58 truthergw

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 05:37 PM

Glad to hear that all went well. Fife sounds OK to me. How often does the Stagecoach run from Dundee to Kirkaldy? I can't remember the last time I saw the Red Lichties. I'll give you a clue, it was before Glenrothes closed but after it opened. I can't believe Fleming's Pehs didnae win!

#59 Locheelad

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 08:07 PM

Traumatic times in The Fishermans all because my wife wore her duffle and i refused to wear mine as we would be seen as the Gloverall Family from The Ferry.

We really enjoyed our time there, pity we'd to go a bit early plus i'd the car. Another meeting would be cool around Easter. Kirkcaldy's fine by me or whenever.

If any others though want a few wee pints on say a Friday night in The Ferry or thereabouts i'll bring 2 next time. T-shirts would be great as long as i get an XXXXXXXL Fat B******* size !

Our pleasure to meet you all and i truly look forward to seeing you again.

Bob Paterson

#60 loobylou

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 11:24 PM

Thanks for your warm welcome - it was great to meet you all last Sunday - I look forward to the next one, whether in Kirkcaldy or wherever.

Happy New Year & all the best to everyone - hope all your research bears fruit in 2008.

Jane

#61 Ian Robertson

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 06:30 PM

A belated message to say how much I enjoyed our meeting last Sunday. A very good turn out I thought, considering the time of year etc. A special mention must be made regarding the Fife contingent travelling through on such a driech Sunday afternoon. I look forward to attending the next wherever it's held; other commitments allowing I'd be happy to take my car so there'd be space for 3or 4 others.
The idea of a members t shirt is an interesing one. For a branch logo it may be worth considering, given the amount of men from the area lost there, something from Loos; say perhaps the outline of "Tower Bridge". If we had still been "Dundee and District" I would have however suggested Dark blue shirt with a badge of the letters D,F and C interwoven which would have of course stood for Dundee Forum Club biggrin.gif ; however given the expanded area and the previous comments regarding the culinary speciallities of the region perhaps 2 rampant pies on a bridie field over crossed smokies would be more appropriate!

regards

Ian
P.S.Having just finished "Fighter Writer", the story of Joe Lee I was interested to read that his Grandfather's sword from the Battle of Waterloo is exhibited in Broughty Castle.

#62 Tom A McCluskey

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 04:30 PM

Ian,

Loos is quite poignant to the area. I like the pies, bridies, and smokies...but after a pub lunch the punters will be thinking we are wearing scratch and sniff polo shirts biggrin.gif . Along with Loos, possibly: Dundee Lilies and Fife knight (Duncan Earl of Fife)?

I never knew Joe Lee's Grandfather's sword was in Bro'ty Castle, I'll need to have a look next time I am up in Dundee. Joe Lee has a Poem dedicated to his Grandfather in Ballads of Battle page 97:- 1815-1915, ONE HUNDRED YEARS AGO TODAY, To my Grandfather that fought at Waterloo.

It ends:

Grandsire, whose good right hand is long since dust,
I hold the same true steel in sacred trust;
From some Valhalla of the British dead
Perchance thou watchest where our lines are spread;
Thou knewest whence should come the power
When the dark battle-clouds did lower -
May thy God be on my shield and stay
As thine a Hundred Years to-day!


A picture of Joe Lee is attached, along with the other 'Fighter Writers' of the 4th (City of Dundee) Bn, The Black Watch. The picture was taken from The Courier. Joe Lee is in the back row third from the left. William Linton Andrews is sat down front right (Lance Corporal)

As Doc cannot make the Easter get-together, would anyone still be interested in a separate Easter one in Dundee, still with a view to going through to Fife in the early Summer?

Aye

Tom McC

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#63 Ian Robertson

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 04:49 PM

I'd be interested in an easter meet in Dundee. Good picture you posted. Of the nine shown, only one did not return. Private John (Jack) Beveridge Nicholson was killed by a sniper's bullet and is buried in the military cemetery of Richebourt St Vaast. He is standing in the picture on Joe's left and at age 21 was the youngest of the group.
I can't see a review of the book"Fighter Writer" in the forum so perhaps I'll do one later tonight (when I'm not supposed to be working!)

regards

Ian
P.S. just to say that the nine shown were John Leng employees and there were another nine editoral staff from Thomsons who also went off to war. Of that band 4 were killed and three wounded. Most served with the 4th BW.

Edited by Ian Robertson, 07 January 2008 - 05:01 PM.


#64 Tom A McCluskey

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:34 PM

Ian,

Thanks for the wee nuggets of information. J B Nicholson's death (13 July 1915), is mentioned in Haunting Years, by William Linton Andrews, pages 147 to 151. 1259 Cpl William Hutchison, a stretcher bearer from Dundee went to his aid and was shot and died. Both were buried together at St Vaast Post. Lee and Andrews were unable to attend the funeral but visited the grave of Nicholson 2 days later. Joe Lee sketched the grave for Nicholson's folks at the Manse. Nicholson also gets a mention in one of Lee's poems. From the writings of Lee and Andrews, the death had a profound affect on them both.

When we marched back for a rest the full force of my comrade's death came upon me. For almost a year we had marched side by side, shared our food and our resting places, shared our hopes. I was sick at heart with loneliness now - William Linton Andrews

Ref: Easter get-together, I already had you penned (not pencilled) in wink.gif

Aye

Tom McC

#65 Ian Robertson

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 11:21 AM

As promised a precis ( sorry I can't do accents, umlauts, cicumflexes etc) and opinion of Bob Burrow's book "Fighter Writer" on this thread
http://1914-1918.inv...showtopic=89527

regards

Ian

#66 George Armstrong Custer

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 03:54 PM

I think the renaming of the branch to 'The Fife & Forfar' is inspired in that it simultaneously reflects the geographical location of members whilst also paying tribute to the region's famous Yeomanry regiment. So why not stay with the theme as far as a branch logo for sweatshirts or polo shirts is concerned, and base it on the regimental badge:



#67 truthergw

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 04:38 PM

I believe Easter is March? Should be OK for me. Can we go up Reres Hill and roll wir eggs?

#68 Tom A McCluskey

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 10:52 PM

GAC,

A good starting point for a badge, possibly the shield and apron of the horse could be slightly modified with other emblems of provenance associated with the area.

Tom,

Roll yer egg, course you can, seeing as it's not too far away wink.gif ...well if we're in the Ferry we're not.

Aye

Tom McC

#69 Black Watch

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 12:57 AM

Pen me in too. I like the Fife and Forfar Yeomanry Badge. Its one of my favourites. Is there any legal or moral reason we couldn't use it?

Neil


#70 George Armstrong Custer

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE (Black Watch @ Jan 9 2008, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is there any legal or moral reason we couldn't use it?


I shouldn't think so, Neil - particularly if it has the title of the forum chums on a scroll or something underneath it. The Custer Association of Great Britain did something similar for their poloshirt logo by incorporating their own devices and logo with the badge of the 7th Cavalry - a unit which also still exists - without attracting any criticism:



Regards,
George


#71 truthergw

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 08:14 PM

Is there a Fife & Forfar Yeomanry Association or Museum? I think we ought to make a real effort to find out if it is OK to wear it.

#72 George Armstrong Custer

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 08:27 PM

Tom, they still exist today as a TA unit - "C" (Fife & Forfar Yeomanry/Scottish Horse) Squadron of The Queen's Own Yeomanry, with HQ in Cupar, Fife - as, of course my example of the 7th Cavalry continues to exist in the US military. The Fife & Forfar MOD homepage is here: Fife&Forfar. The Scottish Horse museum used to be located at Dunkeld, but closed some years ago, though a small private museum can be viewed by appointment at the current F&FY HQ in Cupar. As the knight on horseback armorial device constitutes only a part of the current badge, then I can't see a problem with using it as part of a distinctive branch badge; however someone might like to confirm that with the HQ of the Fife & Forfar? Apart from the 7th Cavalry example, I also know of masonic lodges, for example, which have used the RA badge and its motto of 'Ubique' so I'm not sure what the copyright is on using army insignia - or parts thereof - for non-commercial purposes. I suspect, however, that the knight on horseback element of the Fife & Forfar Yeomanry may turn out to be an adaptation of a much older image anyway - perhaps from a coat of arms - which was itself adopted by the Fife & Forfar Yeomanry - in which case it's in the public domain anyway and not the property of the Scottish Yeomanry.

Regards,
George

#73 loobylou

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 08:45 PM

Hi Everyone

Yes in principle to meets in Dundee, BF, Kdy whatever suits the majority.
Great logo idea the F & FY - I believe there's a tiny museum at what is now the TA place in Cupar.
As with most of the places closest to home, I've never been there & I'm a very short distance from there.
I have a feeling it's only open at certain times, but would you like me to reconnoitre?

Tom
I've just discovered today that my chap with the 'tache in the Scots Guards was Constable Carstairs
in the Dundee City Police between 1896 and 1908. Amazing what info turns up! I'm saving up now to
send to the Guards for his service records.

Best wishes
Jane

#74 J T Gray

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:58 AM

QUOTE (loobylou @ Jan 10 2008, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great logo idea the F & FY - I believe there's a tiny museum at what is now the TA place in Cupar.
As with most of the places closest to home, I've never been there & I'm a very short distance from there.
I have a feeling it's only open at certain times, but would you like me to reconnoitre?


Just don't metion who unveiled the war memorial, or we'll never hear the end of it!

On a more personal note - Ian - thank you very much for those pictures!

Adrian


#75 George Armstrong Custer

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 03:45 PM

In an effort to establish whether there might be any objection or barrier to using the knight on horseback element of the Fife & Forfar Yeomanry badge as part of a logo for the Fife & Forfar Great War Forum Chums, I gave the Regimental museum a call today. I spoke with Captain J. Preece, who is the Honorary (army speak for unpaid! laugh.gif ) Curator of the Fife and Forfar Museum at Cupar. Captain Preece is a serving officer, but in his capacity as Honorary Curator he could not have been more welcoming or enthusiastic about my enquiry.

I explained what the Great Forum community's interests were, and about the recent naming of those members from this area as the Fife & Forfar. I went on to say that a group logo had been discussed, with the equestrian knight from the Fife & Forfar Yeomanry badge being one possibility. I told him that we would be anxious not to tread on anyone's toes either in terms of copyright, or in being seen to use the badge inappropriately. Captain Preece doubted that the Regiment would regard the use of part of the badge by a group such as ours as inappropriate, and went on to explain that the knight on horseback element of the badge represents the 'Thegn of Fife', an office dating from Norman times. That part of the Regimental badge therefore represents something older than the Regiment, and was adopted by the Regiment in much the same way as we're proposing to adopt it now. I undertook to drop him a line formally indicating that we would like to adopt the knight logo if there were no objections.

The Captain was very interested in the activities of forum members here, and told me that their museum's largest collection of documentary material related to the Boer and Great Wars. In particular, he noted that they hold an extensive collection of cuttings from local papers from throughout the region relating to individuals in the Regiment who were decorated, promoted, wounded or KIA in these conflicts. This sounds like a great treasure trove for anyone researching a member of the Regiment during the Great War. In fact, Captain Preece said that he was involved in closing the Scottish Horse Museum at Dunkeld some years ago, and that much of the collection from there was now housed at Cupar. He went on to suggest that it might be possible to form some kind of affiliation between the Regimental Association and the Forum Chums local members, saying that a group visit to the Regimental Museum could certainly be arranged - with the added incentive that they have an in-house bar! It sounds like there's a great potential here to link the local forum Chums with the local Yeomanry Regiment in a mutually benefical way - and their HQ and museum at Cupar is certainly conveniently accessible for members travelling by public or private transport from anywhere in Fife or Dundee & Angus

The Captain suggested that I write, care of him, to the current Honorary Colonel, Sir John Gilmore, whose family have long associations with the Regiment, setting out something about the research acrtivities of the Forum, with the idea that a meeting could be arrranged with Sir John at one of the monthly Regimental Association meetings which, I was assured, were attended by several interesting former members of the Regiment who were happy to share their own recollections and Regimental anecdotes.

So, if Fife, Dundee and Forfar members here give me the go-ahead, I'll drop a line to Captain Preece and set the ball rolling for establishing a unique link between local forum members and a local Regiment as well as formalising the adoption of the equestrian knight as part of a logo.

Regards,
George