Is anyone able to confirm that the patch of land I have identified is indeed Baghdad North Gate Cemetery?
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Baghdad North Gate Cemetery, Iraq
Started by
Neil Clark
, Feb 13 2008 06:11 PM
13 replies to this topic
#1
Neil Clark
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Posted 13 February 2008 - 06:11 PM
I have been playing on Google Earth and found this patch of land in Baghdad that looks as though it could be a CWGC cemetery? Bearing in mind that lots of Ashford's Great War casualties still lay all over Iraq (5th Buffs), I thought I would try and ascertain what condition the cemetery is in and what is the Commission's intent regarding these men's graves? I suspect that many graves and memorials to the missing have been completely destroyed or at the very least badly damaged. It makes me very sad to think that these local men are laying all over Iraq in unkempt graves like this...
Is anyone able to confirm that the patch of land I have identified is indeed Baghdad North Gate Cemetery?
Is anyone able to confirm that the patch of land I have identified is indeed Baghdad North Gate Cemetery?
#2
Terry Denham
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Posted 13 February 2008 - 06:32 PM
Neil
I can't confirm you have the right spot but re your other comments.
Many of the nineteen CWGC cemeteries/memorials in Iraq are now in a poor state of repair though some have been tidied up where possible by British and US troops. CWGC, as in all cases like this, plays a waiting game. One day they will return and make the necessary repairs - as they did in Lebanon and Russia.
The main memorial, the Basra Memorial, has been declared 'no longer fitting' since the damage it sustained when Saddam moved it from its original location to its current site. CWGC is waiting to see how the situation pans out before deciding how to replace it. Meanwhile they have a Roll of Honour on display in their HQ.
Their timeframe is 'in perpetuity' and so they will bide their time but something will be done as soon as it is possible. Oddly, new headstones for many of the Iraq graves were produced and still sit somewhere in Italy. Saddam gave permission for them to be erected but later events put a stop to that.
I can't confirm you have the right spot but re your other comments.
Many of the nineteen CWGC cemeteries/memorials in Iraq are now in a poor state of repair though some have been tidied up where possible by British and US troops. CWGC, as in all cases like this, plays a waiting game. One day they will return and make the necessary repairs - as they did in Lebanon and Russia.
The main memorial, the Basra Memorial, has been declared 'no longer fitting' since the damage it sustained when Saddam moved it from its original location to its current site. CWGC is waiting to see how the situation pans out before deciding how to replace it. Meanwhile they have a Roll of Honour on display in their HQ.
Their timeframe is 'in perpetuity' and so they will bide their time but something will be done as soon as it is possible. Oddly, new headstones for many of the Iraq graves were produced and still sit somewhere in Italy. Saddam gave permission for them to be erected but later events put a stop to that.
#3
Neil Clark
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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:25 PM
Thank you Terry. I have asked my son to take some good photos of any British or Commonwealth monuments he happens to come across when he starts his tour of Iraq in June. Not sure if he will get the chance to do it but it's worthwhile asking him I'm sure. Since the Gulf Wars I haven't seen many really good photos of all these memorials.
I wonder if it's worthwhile writing to the CO's of the infantry regiments that are going on tour asking if they can supply some up to date photos? I suspect the commission may have already done this? It's a great shame that these men's graves are in such an appalling state. As I have stated above, the reason for my interest is that many of the men whom I have researched are buried throughout Iraq (Mespot) - Most were 5th Buffs.
I wonder if it's worthwhile writing to the CO's of the infantry regiments that are going on tour asking if they can supply some up to date photos? I suspect the commission may have already done this? It's a great shame that these men's graves are in such an appalling state. As I have stated above, the reason for my interest is that many of the men whom I have researched are buried throughout Iraq (Mespot) - Most were 5th Buffs.
#4
Greg Bloomfield
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Posted 14 February 2008 - 04:45 PM
Neil
I can confirm that it is North Gate cemetery. I haven't seen it for about a year now but it was in a bit of a state last I saw of it although I didn't linger in the neighbourhood as the locals are a tad unsympathetic to Great War tourists. I've got a couple of my lads in there so I would naturally have loved to have gone for a wander, perhaps another decade or two!
I can confirm that it is North Gate cemetery. I haven't seen it for about a year now but it was in a bit of a state last I saw of it although I didn't linger in the neighbourhood as the locals are a tad unsympathetic to Great War tourists. I've got a couple of my lads in there so I would naturally have loved to have gone for a wander, perhaps another decade or two!
#5
Neil Clark
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Posted 14 February 2008 - 06:36 PM
Greg,
I know where you're coming from.... It upsets me to think these men's graves are being neglected like this. I did think it looked like a cemetery... Thanks.
Terry,
Has the commission ever thought about bringing all these guys home? I realise that it wouldn't be easy but in the circumstances I feel it would be preferable to the present situation. There are of course many examples where the bodies have been removed and then placed in a different cemetery so it wouldn't be the first time. Without getting too deeply into politics, the future of Islam/Christian relations is NOT looking at all good. It would be interesting to gauge forum members feelings regarding doing this. Depending on responses here, I might start a new thread asking for opinions...
I know where you're coming from.... It upsets me to think these men's graves are being neglected like this. I did think it looked like a cemetery... Thanks.
Terry,
Has the commission ever thought about bringing all these guys home? I realise that it wouldn't be easy but in the circumstances I feel it would be preferable to the present situation. There are of course many examples where the bodies have been removed and then placed in a different cemetery so it wouldn't be the first time. Without getting too deeply into politics, the future of Islam/Christian relations is NOT looking at all good. It would be interesting to gauge forum members feelings regarding doing this. Depending on responses here, I might start a new thread asking for opinions...
#6
Greg Bloomfield
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Posted 14 February 2008 - 07:07 PM
Unless things improve out of all recognition, people would die attempting that so its a non-starter.
#7
geoff501
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Posted 14 February 2008 - 07:27 PM
Neil,
A link was posted on here a few years back for Basra. I have not seen any more recent photos.
http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/photo_g...ry_cemetery.htm
Quite a few of my locals are there from February 1917
geoff
A link was posted on here a few years back for Basra. I have not seen any more recent photos.
http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/photo_g...ry_cemetery.htm
Quite a few of my locals are there from February 1917
geoff
#8
Neil Clark
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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:57 PM
Greg,
I wasn't suggesting it be done right now!!!! ONLY when the security situation allows...
I wasn't suggesting it be done right now!!!! ONLY when the security situation allows...
#9
Falco
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Posted 11 March 2009 - 07:38 PM
Is there any update on the condition of the North Gate Cemetery as it`s been a year since anyone last enquired ?
#10
Mr Bush
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Posted 19 May 2009 - 02:01 AM
QUOTE (Falco @ Mar 12 2009, 05:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is there any update on the condition of the North Gate Cemetery as it`s been a year since anyone last enquired ?
Hi,
I am presently posted to the Australian Embassy in Baghdad and as luck would have it we celebrated Anzac Day this year at North Gate Cemetery. I consider myself very lucky to have been in Baghdad this year as we haven't celebrated at the cemetery before and are unlikely to do so again for a few years as the element of surprise is no longer with us. The ceremony was excellent except for the fact the Turks weren't represented. This was especially annoying as the Turkish Embassy is less than 25m outside of the perimeter.
Having visited CWG around the world I was very disappointed to see North Gate as it has been neglected for many years now, although understandably. Hopefully as things settle down there will be opportunities for it to be refurbished. As you can see from the sign, in theory it has been under refurnishment since 1996 but a lot has happened since then.
I have attached some photos including General Maudes Grave and I have a few more generic photos but unfortunately due to security we didn't have a lot of time to wander around. To give you a taste i have downloaded a number of very small photos. I am happy to email better copy versions if you desire.
Cheers
Jonathan
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#11
Drummy
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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:03 AM
Thank you for sharing these pics, it is such a shame that these graves are in such a condition, hopefully one day it will be restored, is it secured from further damage?
#12
Ozzie
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Posted 22 May 2009 - 11:24 AM
The first photo is very poignant. The modern day and well equipped soldier in a war zone, with the graves of WW1 in the background, and the slouch hat and , I assume, .303.
Kim
Kim
#13
Chris Henschke
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Posted 24 May 2009 - 07:37 AM
I can see the Turkish Embassy flag behind the remains of the Cross of Sacrifice in the second row image. Perhaps they were woken yet again by Australians at dawn.
Chris Henschke
Chris Henschke
#14
Icenitribe
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Posted 04 July 2009 - 06:24 PM
QUOTE (Mr Bush @ May 19 2009, 03:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi,
I am presently posted to the Australian Embassy in Baghdad and as luck would have it we celebrated Anzac Day this year at North Gate Cemetery. I consider myself very lucky to have been in Baghdad this year as we haven't celebrated at the cemetery before and are unlikely to do so again for a few years as the element of surprise is no longer with us. The ceremony was excellent except for the fact the Turks weren't represented. This was especially annoying as the Turkish Embassy is less than 25m outside of the perimeter.
Having visited CWG around the world I was very disappointed to see North Gate as it has been neglected for many years now, although understandably. Hopefully as things settle down there will be opportunities for it to be refurbished. As you can see from the sign, in theory it has been under refurnishment since 1996 but a lot has happened since then.
I have attached some photos including General Maudes Grave and I have a few more generic photos but unfortunately due to security we didn't have a lot of time to wander around. To give you a taste i have downloaded a number of very small photos. I am happy to email better copy versions if you desire.
Cheers
Jonathan
I am presently posted to the Australian Embassy in Baghdad and as luck would have it we celebrated Anzac Day this year at North Gate Cemetery. I consider myself very lucky to have been in Baghdad this year as we haven't celebrated at the cemetery before and are unlikely to do so again for a few years as the element of surprise is no longer with us. The ceremony was excellent except for the fact the Turks weren't represented. This was especially annoying as the Turkish Embassy is less than 25m outside of the perimeter.
Having visited CWG around the world I was very disappointed to see North Gate as it has been neglected for many years now, although understandably. Hopefully as things settle down there will be opportunities for it to be refurbished. As you can see from the sign, in theory it has been under refurnishment since 1996 but a lot has happened since then.
I have attached some photos including General Maudes Grave and I have a few more generic photos but unfortunately due to security we didn't have a lot of time to wander around. To give you a taste i have downloaded a number of very small photos. I am happy to email better copy versions if you desire.
Cheers
Jonathan
