25 replies to this topic

[hywyn]

Flying Officer Palmer J Parry is commemorated on the village Memorial at Penygroes, Caernarfonshire.
I have yet to find him on CWGC.

Could I ask for an Airmen Died check please before I look deeper.

he was 3 yrs old in 1901 therefor born c1898.


TIA

Hywyn

[centurion]

When did the RAF adopt its own ranks? It wasn't on 1,1 1918. I know that there were some 'daft' ideas floated initially (eg 2nd Avian, 1st Avian etc). The reason I ask is that this guy might not be a WW1 casualty but slightly later

[hywyn]

I see what you mean about when the rank was created. Possibly one of the Air experts can enlight us on that.
The name was along the bottom of two lists of names in mostly alphabetical order. I had assumed that it was there to fit in the rank.
There is a separate list for WW2 casualties.

Hywyn

[Terry Denham]

This rank was instituted on 01.08.19.

The odd ranks suggested were 1st Ardian, 2nd Ardian etc. (Gaelic - Ard = Chief and Ian = Bird - or so I read!).

He would not be listed in Airmen Died if he died after 11.11.18

[hywyn]

Thanks Terry

I think the answer to this one lies in Ancestry Deaths Records/local records/newspapers then.

Given that you have provided details from Airmen died previously can I take it that you've checked and I can conclusively say that he is not in it? (to negate the possibility that the villagers, when they compiled the list in 1920/21, did notgive him a rank he did not have if you get my drift)

Hywyn

[Terry Denham]

Hywyn

He does not appear in Airmen Died which only has names up to 11.11.18.

I looked at UK deaths on Ancestry 1919-21 and his name did not appear there - nor does he show up in GRO Overseas.

[hywyn]

Thanks Terry

I've just done 1916-1924. Nil.
Ireland possibly?

I'm steadily going through the newspapers so hopefully something will turn up there in the fulness of time


hywyn

[Trebrys]

I know the son of this man's brother.

His name is also Palmer Parry. I got the information below from him and I hope people will be able to find more detail from what I've learnt.

It seems he initially joined up in the army with a group of friends pretty early on - they lied about their age, but were accepted without any problems. The nephew told me that he was amongst the first to receive a commission to join the RAF (or RFC) and that he survived the war. He then found himself fighting in Russia against the Bolsheviks and even survived being shot down there. The nephew has a photo of his uncle in an aircraft in the snows of Russia - the aircraft has the identification numbers of D285. I am yet to see the photo so I cannot tell you what type it is at the moment.

Palmer John Parry was killed in a flying accident over the Curragh near Dublin in 1922. It seems that there might have been a base there. He was aged 25. The family do not know where he is buried.

I hope someone out there will be able to fill in any details.

Trebrys.

[hywyn]

Thanks Iwan

Your info goes to clear the possibility on a non commemoration (i.e within the time scale)
Hopefully someone can add to what you have found.

Should you get a rough date in 1922 I'll look up the newspapers.


Diolch


Hywyn

[Dolphin]

the aircraft has the identification numbers of D285.

Trebrys

D285 was an SE 5a, a type that wasn't used during the intervention in Russia.  However, D2853 and D2854 were DH 9s that did fly in Russia - it's likely that the final number of the serial is invisible against the red of the rudder striping, as red becomes black on orthochromatic film.  

D2853 was sold to the Anti-Bolshevik government and used by No 1 Volunteer Arm Squadron in 1919; although used by No 222 Sqn RAF at Mudros during the Great War, it doesn't appear to have been flown by the RAF in Russia.

D2854 was flown by No 221 Sqn from Petrovsk (north of Baku on the west bank of the Caspian Sea) in 1919.  It often appears in colour profiles of DH 9s as there was a distinctive blue arrow along the fuselage side from the roundel to the nose.  

Is this the machine?

Cheers

Gareth

[Martin Elliget]

Palmer John Parry was killed in a flying accident over the Curragh near Dublin in 1922. It seems that there might have been a base there.

Not sure about RAF but there was a large British army base at Curragh, which, after 70 years of being in British hands, was formally handed over to the I.R.A. in 1922.

[Dolphin]

Not sure about RAF but there was a large British army base at Curragh, which, after 70 years of being in British hands, was formally handed over to the I.R.A. in 1922.

The aerodrome at the Curragh was used by a detachment from No 105 Sqn (Bristol F2B) from 28 January 1919 until disbandment on 1 February 1920 and a detachment from No 141 Sqn (Bristol F2B) from 1 March 1919 to disbandment on 1 February 1920.  

I think that it's more likely that British Army bases in Ireland were handed over to the army of the Irish Free State than to the outlawed IRA.

Gareth

[Trebrys]

Absolutely fantastic - thank you very much, gentlemen! I'll go chase after a copy of the photo and try to put it on the Forum somehow! I'll phone my acquaintance to see if he can tell me more about the photo.

Isn't this good, Hywyn?

Let's see if we can flesh out the story a bit more!

Thanks all,
Iwan.

[Dolphin]

Iwan

Here's a drawing of DH 9 D2854 of No 221 Sqn for you to compare with the photograph.

Regards

Gareth

Attached Files

•  dh9.jpg   30.89K   0 downloads

[hywyn]

Good stuff indeed Iwan.

Thanks Gareth for your most informative replies.

Iwan, Hopefully the rellies will have some sort of a date  in 1922 and then I can look up the newpapers. I've checked the GRO for a death this side of the Irish Sea up to 1924. Hopefully we can pinpoint something in Ireland with a better idea of a date.


Dioch

Hywyn

[Trebrys]

Thank you all for the information.

All the family over here knows is that another flyer was killed in the same accident which suggests a two-seater - they have no idea when exactly the accident happened other than it was in 1922.

There is indeed a blue arrow running along the fuselage so this would make it the  DH9 D2854. Thanks very much, Gareth!

Iwan.

[Trebrys]

I am now in possession of a framed photograph of "Lieut. Palmer J. Parry RAF, (South Russia 1919)" sitting in his DH9 D2854. The arrow is clearly painted on its side and the field is totally covered in snow. The picture has been sealed in a frame so it will be impossible to remove the photo without breaking the frame. Its size is 30cm x 20cm.

I have also a photo of Palmer Parry in a formal portrait pose (size 10cm x 14cm). It was taken at Chesney Ltd., 50 Strand, London.

Also I have his death certificate labelled in Gaelic and English which gives the following information:
Death registered in No.3 North City, Eleventh February 1922 at the King George Hospital, Palmer John Parry of 44 Snowdon Street, Penygroes, Nth Wales. Male. Single. Aged 25 years. Flying Officer Royal Air Force. Died in King George Hospital from Haemorrhage of the Brain. Information received from Louis A. Byrne, Coroner for the City of Dublin. Inquest held 13 Feb 22. Death registered 23 02 1922.

I hope this information will enable someone to find the particulars of his death.

Regards,
Trebrys.

[Trebrys]

Here is Palmer Parry!

[hywyn]

Iwan

Sorry about the delay. I've not been able to access the Forum due to 'gremlins' for a few weeks. I have 73 pages to view!!

Great stuff re Palmer Parry. I've made a note to look up the papers next Archives visit and will let you know.

Diolch

hywyn

[Trebrys]

No problems at all.

My computer is playing up big time and I suspect a visit to PC World is on the cards this week! I hope the layoff won't be long!

Trebrys.

[Neil Clark]

Very interesting thread.

[jdoyle]

an old thread I know, but stumbled on some info today.

Bristol Fighter D7856 is listed on the following website as having crashed 90 years ago tomorrow at Baldonnel (now Casement) aerodrome

http://www.orpheuswe...ents/Feb22.html


An NZ paper carries a news item re the death of the mechanic but notes the pilot, Perry, as injured

http://paperspast.na...NS19220213.2.26


Flight Magazine has B J Parry

http://www.flightglo...922 - 0114.html

RAF forum has his death as 11th Feb 1922
http://www.rafcomman....11.18-31.12.28


Medal Card has P J Parry, Sgt RWF number 265222, then 2nd Lt RAF and then FO.

FO in the LG October 1919
http://www.london-ga.../13139/page.pdf


a cancellation notice in the LG
http://www.london-ga...es/839/page.pdf

[hywyn]

Thanks for posting the links.

The following appeared in a local North Wales newspaper 21/2/1922
"On Friday the sad news was received by Mr and Mrs T G Parry, Miners, Snowdon Street, Penygroes that their son Mr Palmer J Parry had met with a fatal accident in an aeroplane at Blandonnel, Dublin when he and a colleague were about to fly over to England. After rising some hundreds of feet the machine fell to earth and they were seriously injured, both dying later in hospital on Tuesday. His body was brought to Penygroes under military escort on Thursday. A large congregation met to bury him at St Rhedyw, Llanllyfni. A number of Air Force Officers were present. There was a volley of shots over his grave and the last post was sounded."

His medal card shows his first overseas number as RWF 265222. This is a 6th Bn TF number and is of course post the 1917 renumbering. He was a pre war enlistment having done so Jan/Feb 1914, his number being 1084 (by process of elimination)

I wonder if Gareth (Dolphin) spots this thread whether there exists a photo of D7856.


Hywyn

[tim hogben]

Hi

Have a look at the Flight archive, put Parry into the box and look at 1922.
In the Feb 16 1922 Flight is B. J. Parry crashed after takeoff from Baldonnell near Dublin for a flight to England.
The "B" may be a typo? have a look and sea what you think!

Tim

[jdoyle]

following up on the NZ newspaper report, so far, the only Harris who died in 1922 who might fit is a James Harris who had his death registered in North Dublin, Q1 1922 (same as Parry)


James Harris :
https://familysearch...M9.1.1/FTN3-54X

Palmer Parry :
https://familysearch...M9.1.1/FTNQ-PYZ