Phil,
You've started something now. I've just had a closer look at the capbadge and it appears to be in reverse i.e. bird looking to it's right. All other photo's I've seen have it facing to it's left.
However if this photo is inversed why is the breast badge on the left pocket as it should be???? It my well not be RNAS.
I'm starting to get a little dizzy with this one.

Jonathon,

Could we have a closer look at the breast badge please as I think it may be RFC and not RAF. Of course if it were it would only serve to confuse matters even more. Unless perhaps he is the Flying Boat Pilot and indeed RFC or RAF attached in some way to RNAS.
Al.

Here's a close-up of the wings.

Here are some more I've struggled with. Royal Artillery? 1065 name is Martin.

By definition you cannot have an RAF bloke attached to the RNAS as the RAF subsumed the RNAS

Post 53 is lovely. No idea what rank he is, but I reckon Grumpy would tell us.

BLACKMORE (1424) FRANK WILLIAM 1/1 Bucks Bn Military Cross Compton Cottage Broadbridge Heath Horshaw Sussex. MIC. Ralph.

LONDON GAZETTE no 31043 d/d 29-11-1918 2LT FRANK WILLIAM BLACKMORE BUCKS BATT OX AND BUCKS L I (ITALY) For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty during a raid. He led his platoon with courage and determination although wounded early in the attack. Having had his wound bandaged, he rejoined his platoon and resumed command, successfully clearing the whole of the area allotted to him. Ralph.

You are correct of course, I should have said RAF attached to the RN.

Jonathon,
A shot in the dark but your KOYLI man wouldn't happen to be Joseph MacRae would it?
Al.

Hi Ralph, excellent work on Blackmore. There were three VAD hospitals/convalescent halls around Sevenoaks: St.Johns Hall, Cornwall Hall and Coombe Bank (now a school). Prehaps tht explains Blackmore's presence in the area.

Al, the KOYLI man is Lieutenant Thompson.

Here are some more that are currently lised under unknowns.

Top: 1291, 1481 the name is Young.

Bottom: 1469 the name is Snow. Could these two be RASC?

Another wearing a kilt. I'm not very good at identifying Scottish regiments. 1257 the name is French.

.

Here's some more name lists:

Queen's Own Dorsetshire Yeomanry
2nd.Lt.Haywood 1142
Cpl. Marsh 1061
Smith 1057
Cowdry 1033
Pollen 1032
Winmill 1014, 1010
Withey 1012
C. Smith 1006
Wiltshire 1001
Turner 1175
Woodcock 1217
Taylor 1319
Baldoch 1432
Trethowan 1395, 1397
Trott 1432
group photo (poor quality) 1498


Volunteer Aid Detatchments
Limbrick 1024
Wilkins 1021
Thompson 1020
Collin 1072
Smith 1352
White 1206, 1292

Left:1231 2nd.Lt. Wilson. Any ideas on this one?

Right:1113 Malkin. This appears to be an embroidered cap badge?

Left:1237 The name is possibly Kodura? Is this Royal Navy?

Right:1195 2nd.Lt. Marwood.

I'd like to put this one in the Middlesex Regiment, but would like your opinions. Did many regiments have 10 battalions? 1247 the name is Furgeson.

.

The same applies with this one. My inexperienced eyes would like to see 'LIVERPOOL', what do you think? 1191 Smith.

.

1291 and 1481 are London Scottish
1257 is Seaforth Highlanders
1113 Makin is 20th Hussars.

1291/1481 London Scottish.

1257 Seaforth Highlanders

1231 Hampshire officer possibly.

The RN type may well be Royal Naval Division - he seems to have khaki uniform, with RN and army rank badges.

The 10th battalion chap may well be Middlesex: they had a 10th Territorial (the T in the badge), so T/10/Middlesex is very possible

Hi,

These photos are absolutely fantastic!

I'm going to throw my lot in with a suggestion that the man in post 53 is a Staff Sergeant Instructor of Gunnery, but why he is wearing an officer's pattern SD jacket and Sam Browne I cannot say.

2nd Lieut Wilson is as suggested, Hampshires.

Cheers,

Nigel

I wonder if there is a computer programme that will convert oblique views to something more easily viewed?

Great thread by the way. Just the sort of detective work that the Forum is so good at.

I'd like to add my thanks to what a great service you have provided in saving these wonderful pictures and I'm sure they will be of immense benefit to students of the Great War and its soldiers.
I'd be happy to try my modest knowledge of the MGC and the King's Liverpool on photographs you have of men in these units - particularly if named.
Julian

When the Royal Naval Division came under the command of the Army in France in 1916 they had to wear Naval and Army badges of rank.So the photo is dead right for RND circa 1916 and 1917.Naval Ranl Lieutenant = Army Captain.Bob

Jonathon,
Can I point you in the direction of this thread ref. your Naval /RAF airman Windsor. I posted on the SHIPS AND NAVIES Section. It may be worth your while posting the Naval based photo's in this section.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...mp;#entry959244

Al.

Quite a find there. Look forward to seeing the finished exhibit/book/cd etc.

Here's a few id's for to help you.
Queen's Own Royal West Kents
Lt.Col. Whatney 1494, 1500
Charles Norman Whatney of Ivy Hatch Court (nr Sevenoaks). He commanded 1/4th all through the war.

Capt. Waydelin 1455
Frank William Waydelin MC. Was Adjutant of 10th Bn.

2nd.Lt. Waite 1116, 1153
Charles Elvy Waite MC later Lt. Col. in the West Yorkshires, and appears to have moved to Harpenden Estate, Kapar, Selangor, Federated Malay States post war. Went overseas with 3/4th on June 1st 1917.

2nd.Lt Thompson 1119, 1120, 1124
Probably Edgar Victor Thompson of 6 Marine Parade, Folkestone.

2nd.Lt. Westacott 1232, 1233
William Alan Westacott of Turvins, Dunton Green, Sevenoaks. Also served in the RAF.

2nd.Lt. Rainer 1510 ?

officer Kennedy 1443 ?

Sgt. Whyntie 1405
G/2143 Sjt. Cyril John Whyntie, commissioned into the East Surreys and made Captain. Living at either 11b or 116 High St., Sevenoaks.

Sgt. Wilson 1244 ?

Cpl. Ryealey 1406 ?
Cpl. Martin 1265
Hard to determine as there are two Martins who served with 1/4th but neither appear to have made Cpl. There is a 1253 Cpl. Jack Martin of 1/5th who might fit the bill.

L.Cpl. Whyntie 1167
(Same as Sgt Whyntie?)

L.Cpl. H.A. Smith 1297
Given he's most likely a territorial with 1/4th I'd go for 1633 Henry A. Smith (later renumbered to 200342 and entitled to BWM and IGS with Afghanistan 1919).

Signaller H. Martin (Military Medal) copy photograph 1266 ?

Bugler Woolven 1207
23305 Benjamin Woolven, later GS/61442 Royal Fusiliers.

Yorkeston 1169
Most likely 1906 pte. Leslie N. Yorkston who served with 1/4th (later number is 200507 entitled to BWM and IGS with Afghanistan 1919).

Turner 1174 ?
Wheeler 1208 ?
Malcolm 1263 ?

A.B. Wilden 1314
240912 Cpl. Aubrey B. Wilder (later number L/13055)

C. Wills 1315 ?

Tingley 1344
Possibly Pte. William Tingley of 16 Stratford St., Tunbridge Wells. Served with 2/4th and transfered to Essex Regt. (There are a couple of other candidates but he's the front-runner).

I'd hazard a guess that the unidentified men are all locals and most will have served with either 1/4, 2/4 or 3/4.

Best regards,
Matthew

What a fantastic find. Can't wait for further installments and what great pictures.

Cheers,

David

Officer on the right in 1195 appears to be Royal Engineers and probably Territorial as there seems to be no scroll below the grenade on his collar badge.

The two lads wearing the Royal Arms cap badges in 1469, I would suspect are and look like Labour Corps, as opposed to members of the Volunteer Force which wore the same badge, but had specially woven titles in their shoulder straps

Mansfield could also belong to the 16th Bn AIF as they had the same shape of patch and were also white over blue.

I had a look on the embarkation roll and the following men with the name Mansfield initially belonged to the 4th, 8th, 12th or 16th Battalions.

5152 - Alexander Mansfield - 12th Bn - Age 25 Horse Driver of Launceston Tasmania - Transferred to 52nd Battalion
1503 - Alex James Mansfield 16th Bn - Age 18 Timber Worker of WA & Monmouthshire England - Enlisted 12/11/14 - Returned to Australia 02/01/1919
3824 - Charles Mansfield 4th Bn - Age 21 - Hairdresser of Mosman NSW - Later transferred to 1st Pioneer Battalion - Enlisted 01/09/15 - RTA 12/5/19
4831 - George Robert Mansfield 8th Bn - Age 30 Tailor of South Ballarat - Later transferred to Australian Corps School - Enlisted 7/7/15 - RTA 27/11/19
2054 - Harold Ellis Mansfield 12th Bn - Age 18 Stoker of Hobart Tasmania - Enlisted 23/1/15 - RTA 09/03/19
50 - Harry Charles Mansfield 12th Bn - Age 19 Pattern Maker of Deveonport Tasmania - transferred the 3rd Machine Gun Company & killed 6/5/17
6043 - Herbert Charles Mansfield 4th Bn - Age 24 - Labourer of Mudgee NSW - Enlisted 23/01/16 - RTA 20/04/1919
3381 - James Mansfield 4th Bn - Age 37 Labourer of Sydney NSW - Enlisted 03/09/15 - RTA 13/12/15
4505 - Thomas Mansfield 12th Bn - Age 24 Labourer of Zeehan Tasmania - Enlisted 13/10/15 - RTA 1/12/18


Some of these may be able to be ruled out as they would have been serving with other units when they were in England, such as Alexander, Charles & Harry, while James was sent home in 1915 with Rheumatism, but it still leaves a handful of names.
Hope it helps though.

Cheers
Andrew

Going back to my last post, it would seem that the Royal Engineer officer in question could be 2/Lt Bernard Vivian Marwood the only RE officer of that name with a MIC and going off his single 'pip' on his rank cuff this is probably him. He was later promoted Lieut.

Going to 1113 and Malkin 20th Hussars. Only two Malkins are to be found serving with the cavalry who have MIC's and one of them with a Yeomanry unit. Therefore my suggestion is that this is 10714 Pte William J. Malkin, who was regular cavalry.

Fantastic work everyone! It's great to reduce the number in the 'unknown' folder. I'll post some more soon.

Matthew, a stunning piece of work, thankyou! I've got to drive to Sevenoaks on Monday to look at the exhibition space, so can now also see where some of these men lived! This also means that there is every chance that relatives of these men may visit the exhibition!

Julian, here are the names for The King's Liverpool and MGC.

The King's Liverpool Regiment
Capt. Tweedale 5th or 7th Batt. 1507
Officer Balmforth 1434
Blackburn 6th(T) Rifle Batt. 1426
Whitelaw 6th(T) Rifle Batt. 1484
Mason 6th(T) Rifle Batt. 1450
A.W. Smith 6th(T) Rifle Batt. 1284
group photo 5th? Batt. named to Smith 1280

Machine Gun Corps
Officer Stacey (copy photo) 1477
Newport 1137

This is the group photo 1280, is this 5th battalion?

.

Here's are the close-ups of 1280.

Here are some more from the 'unknown' folder. Left: 1430 Towlson.

Right: 1299 Smith.

Can anyone ask Henry Allingham ? Would he be able to make out the photos ?

Some more names.

Royal Air Force
Marsh 1042 (photo already posted)

RAF/RNAS
Windsor 1183(photo already posted)

Royal Naval Air Service
Cooper 1071 (leading aircraftsman?) 1025 (signaller?)
Bourne 1025 (petty officer? three long service stripes)
Windsool 1479 copy photo (a photo of a photo) of Raymond Collishaw beside 'Black Cat'.

Royal Flying Corps
Major Barratt 1438 (previously Royal Artillery?)
Lt. Tudhope 1172
Trezise 1399 (observer wings)
Taylor 1323 (groundcrew?)
Wisdom 1187, 1188 (groundcrew?)

Some more unidentified. Here is one showing the same chap as plate 1430. Notice the armband. 1429 Towlson.

The Australian in Post #8 is almost certainly 5054 Private Harold Ellis Mansfield, 12th Battalion. He was wounded in 1916 and spent time at Chepstead Kent (wound stripe on sleeve) and attended signal school in Belgium during 1917 (hence the signaller patch on his sleeve). Perhaps this was taken on a susequent return to England and Kent. i.e. after the war.

Cheers,
Tim L.

Essex Yeomanry
2nd.Lt. Vatali 1496, 1505, 1509
L.Cpl. Marshall 1062
L.Cpl. Cormach 1023
L.Cpl. Mase 1451
Whitby 1049
Wynn 1005

Essex Regiment
Sgt.Smart 1051

What a find -
Keith, you have done these men justice and well done to all who have contributed.
This is stunning.
Thank you for sharing
Susan.

I'd say 1430 is Army Service Corps.

1429 (the chap with the 'tache) s - I think - the Kent Volunteer Fencibles. The badge is (I reckon) in Kipling & King, Vol 1, 1629 (page 389), and the uniform doesn't look like a regular army unit.

The bars on the RAF cap are the early rank bars worn in addition to the cuff ranking. They were abolished around Oct. 1918.

I think 1191 Smith is 7th Middlesex.

Any chance of posting the Royal Fusiliers names?

Thanks,

W.

What rank is the flyer in post #28 then? What is the item on his right cuff?

I'm afraid that's the limit of my knowledge [?] on the subject. The object on his cuff appears to be a metal eagle, but what rank that indicates I don't know.

I think he is a Battery Sergeant Major Instructor of Gunnery, but RA is abit off my beat!

Post 79 closeup features pre-1916 Quartermaster sergeant's badge .... changed during 1915.

What a fabulous find!
I notice that there are some German surnames in the Middlesex list. These soldiers may have been with the 30th or 31st Battalions that contained a large number of men whose fathers were German, Austrian etc. For example it is possible that Borgest 1182 was Hans Borgeest G84432 (probably 31st battalion).

Myrtle

1280 if the badge is blackened brass it is the 5th Batt The Kings (Liverpool Regt) if its all white metal its the 7th Batt, but the shoulder title looks like the 5th. Ralph.

Hi Wainfleet, here are the Royal Fusilers names.

Royal Fusiliers
officer Masters 1114
Coomber group (photo with parents?) 1070
Wells (family group with mother and two sisters?) 1245
Marsh 1043
Mathews 1139, 1140 (photo already posted)

Left:this is the plate for 1114 Masters.
Right:1043 Marsh, and detail of the cuff.

Interesting: the chap in the middle photo above (the o.r.) is wearin collar dogs - unusual for a Great War-period man. I assume he's a Lewis Gunner (the L in a wreath)?

I've just had a look at the National Portrait Gallery website and think that 1438 Barratt RFC maybe the later Sir Arthur Sheridan Barratt, Air Marshall Royal air force. What do you think? I can't post the photo from their site as it costs money! But just google 'Sir-Arthur-Sheridan-Barratt' and it's the first result.

Jonathan

Thanks for posting the RF names. And thanks too for posting all these pictures, lost for so long.

Regards,

W.

Here's the royal Aero Club Aviators' Certificate info for Arthur Sheridan Barratt
Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

looks like the same chap to me, but he looks younger in uniform!

NigelS