Just a thought, I've just seen a very famous photograph of the German bunker found within Bernafray woods. Its the one with some soldiers standing at the top of about 40 - 50 steps leading to a bunker. As it was obviously a very deep position, and presumably little (if any) damaged, I have always thought that it would have survived the war, possibly being filled in at the end of the war.

Does anyone know of any attempts made to locate it or excavate it ?

Mick

Hello, Mick - Jean-Pierre Matte, the owner of the bed-and-breakfast in Bernafay Wood, has searched the entire wood for this position. He informed me that he believes that a depression in the northwest corner of the wood (across from the British cemetery) marks the location. He thinks that the shelter was destroyed by explosives by retreating British during March 1918, so that the position could not be used again by the Germans. Although we will not know the facts until someone discovers documention, I personally find Jean-Pierre's theory to be a very logical explanation of why the position is not easily located today. Regards, Torrey

Thanks for replying Torry, I guess Jean-Pierre would be the best person to have truly searched for the location of the bunker !

Also, his theory would seem perfectly logical.

Mick

Presuming this is the one that Mick means

Yes, that's the one !

Mick

This is the one before our lads got there.

It was not in Bernafay wood, but just outside, on the northern side in a small quarry (marked on trench maps but filled in nowadays) about 300 yards from the present cemetery, towards Longueval.
There was a detailed drawing of this in the RE archives, marked Battle HQ, at Brompton but is marked "missing" in the index....looks like someone nicked it some time ago.

An examination of the site of the quarry shows the soil to be different for a patch about the size of a tennis court.

I've never seen this photograph before, it looks as if the German soldier is standing on a balcony, possibly another level ?

Also there is a long pole to the left of the staircase, with a mop type object on the end, I wonder what that was ?

Mick

Mick, dunno what the pole is for, I wondered too.

The German soldier does seem to be on a ledge (in quarrying terms, a berm), which is what you could expect to find in a quarry.

Regards, Peter

Thanks Peter.

Mick

Hi Mark & Peter,

There's not bunker in Bernarfay Wood. But there's a military hospital. On the first photo in the forum, there's English who take the hospital in 1916. The second photo there's military Germain hospital in aproximatly 1914. I'll open it in few weeks ... I know where is it !
See you later !
Eric.

Hello Eric,
Are you saying that you know the loaction of the 2 photographs in this thread ?

Mick

WHere i live there is loads of bunkers!!! Its gresat!

Eric, some 4 months ago you said you were to open the dugout at Bernafay Wood. Anything to report? Peter

Hello Mick,
I looked at the pole with some curiosity, too, until I realised what it had to be.
Chimneys were kept clear of soot and other obstructions with the aid of similar equipment, so I'd suggest the pole in the photo to be a ventilation shaft brush, stored outside for the sake of convenience. Granted, it is a bit of a stab in the dark to think so, but is certainly logical, and a bunker/structure that deep underground would require some means of keeping ventilation shafts clear.

Blessed Be, Mick, Uyraell.

Thats an interesting thought, but surely such a long item could only be manipulated from above ground, which would be a potential target in any daylight hours, and unless such a vent was fully lined could result in collapse. I appreciate that German underground bunkers were often extensive, but surely it would not be practical to use such an object. My chimney brushes are made in sections that fit together. I don't know at what stage in time thatn idea was developed, but I must doubt the suggestion, unless someone knows better.

Keith

Time Team, eat you heart out!

Roel

very plausible I would say !

Mick

After seeing those brushes I now have visions of fireplaces and chimneys down in the depths, and since I had never seen the second photo either, thanks for putting it up...


Barbara..

Having stayed at Bernafay wood i can confirm that roughly in North West corner of the wood there is def signs of a large bunker/hospital?. Plenty of concrete lying around and prob about a 15 metre depression area there. Not sure if this is the place but be very surprised if it isnt. Christine, Jean Pierre's wife, told us that was the area of the Bunker

Wayne

Sorry to throw my two cents in, but my first thought when I saw the apparatus at the left of the picture was that it was for cleaning out chimneys or air vents. There is another one right next to it that seems shorter and it looks like the bigger one articulates so it could be used indoors. JMHO

Hello

I know this subject has been discussed before, but this time it appears we have a location!

Wayne , any chance you could mark it on the map/aerial attached, would like to take a look myself one day

Thanks

Andy

Click to view attachment

It is fairly certain that the deep dugout is not in the wood but in the (now filled in) quarry just outside. It was surveyed, and recorded as a Brigade HQ, by the REs (it is certainly not a hospital, and there is no concrete involved, which rules out any concrete found in the wood). As stated above the RE library has the indexed record but unfortunately the file is marked "missing". Looks like someone some time ago wanted to visit.

The quarry walls are apparent, as is the lack of overhanging trees.

Regards, Peter

If my memory serves me right it more or less in the area i've marked. If you head for that area Andy you should come across it. I Will be there again in April to check it out. Plenty of paths within the wood as it still used for hunting. If you lucky you may spot wild deer in there but they tend to be more in Trones Wood. Happy hunting(the bunker type i mean not the deer.. )

Wayne

Interesting!

Well Wayne looks as though we will be visiting inside the wood and outside at the quarry, Peter has a good case concerning the RE records and the photograph.

It appears we are talking about two different sites, or would they be connected? does anyone else have an insight to the RE archive. What do the German records state?....Wayne get the deer to get out of the camera shot, as Roel says we're going to have to do a "Time Team" of our own here

I have walked in the wood before, such a peaceful place

Andy

Really? I had the exact opposite feeling. I was there in the summer of '06 and staying at Bernafay Wood B & B (which is the old railway station in the maps and photos) and had an opportunity to walk in their woods. I was very creeped out by what i do not know, just had a very unpleasant feeling. I walked for about half an hour and got a good ways in and just had to turn back. I just did not want to be there anymore. Can't explain it...

Incidentally, was this the quarry where Robert Graves was taken after he was wounded near High Wood?

Jon

Have to agree with Jon bit eerie in there def get the feeling you being watched but nowhere near as bad as walking near High Wood. that place scares hell out of me!! could well be 2 diff sites just that Christine said that the bunker was in there where we found it. Sadly as some may know Jean Pierre not 100% fit as he had stroke few years ago so no longer able to get out and about as he did. Off to Somme in 8 weeks so will get pics n post them here to confirm or to delete my theory ..lol

Wayne

I walked around Bernafay last week and noticed a few sections of broken concrete, in the area where the farmers pile the potatoes/sugar beet at the northern edge, is this likely to be WW1 related ?

Mick