Hi folks

been looking at various places on Google earth in connection with my interest in 18th military camps. One place is Barham Downs in Kent which has been used many times from the mid-18th century to Napoleonic period for camps and now it appears in to the 20th century. Image shows a fantastic set of trenches which appears to be a mock up of 2 frontline trenches and communications trenches with no mans land between

Cheers
Dominic

Kinmel Camp had set of practice trenches in the Gounds of Bodelwyddan castle . Not this grand though!
Google Earth shows them clearly.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...p;#entry1025355

Neil

How nice to be mentioned in a post title!

Aren't these wonderful? It's one of the most elaborate scenes 've seen.

Thanks

Martin

What a great idea! I'm going to be searching on Google for the next week now..... All I need to start is a list of large WW1 training locations...

Barham is very close to me too. Are you aware of which units spent time there? I'd be interested to learn this. Perhaps I can use my website as a platform for this work.

Domsim, how an earth did you know to look here for these images?

I wonder if they warrant protection?

They are very close to Kitchener's Country retreat -

Hi Neil

Thanks for the comments. As i said in my original post I am an archaeologist researching 18th century camps and am currently studying 2 in Dorset, 3 in Wiltshire and 2 in Hampshire. There is a fantastic portfolio of hand drawn plans of nearly 30 of these camps in the collections of the British Library. there are a number for Barham Downs which show the camps about 500m north west of these trenches-I was just looking to see if there was any evidence of these camps and the trenches were a total surprise. Nice continuity of use over time though.

Cheers
Dominic

This could be quite a scoop! Well done that man...

I'm going to get in touch with the Kent County Council about these trenches. I wonder if it's possible to protect them in some way?

I will try and find out what can be done. If anyone can help then I'd appreciate your advice.

Neil

I hope people add more great closeup photos from Google Earth etc....
John
Toronto
Especially of those CEF related British sites!

What an spectacular trench formation, would I be right in thinking that these have been filled in and the land used for farming for the last 60 years, and probably not visible at all from the ground?
Which camp was near Barham?
I have used google earth to find the trenches at Redmires, dug by the 12th York and Lancs during late 1914 and early 1915 and known as Hill 60, they were dug on the moors and are now difficult to see. the area was subject to an archaeological survey in 1999. Also the trenches at Penally which is just down the road from me and are quite impressive and well preserved. I also have a 1930ish aerial photo of trenches at Bustard Camp on Salisbury Plain but can find no trace on google earth. It would be a great idea to have a collection of aerial shots of all the trenches that can be found in the UK as I'm sure there may be many more out there,

Jon

Click to view attachment
practice trenches at Penally, Pembrokeshire

Jon,
I'd be very interested to see the 1930s AP of the Bustard set - I've got one from the 20s but have not yet seen a 1930s example. They really don't show on google earth as they are pretty ephemeral on the ground (and the area is not ploughed which would give you other possibilities to see them). Best bet from a google earth point of view would be the set on Beacon Hill - roughly SU215454
cheers
Richard

Hi Jon

Yup these are back filled and are crop marks so are in an arable field.

Neil if you get in touch with the county council archaeology or Historic Environment Rewcord section you might be able to get them put on the Historic Environment Record (if they aren't already there). Protection in the form of Scheduling might be a bit more problematic.

Cheers
Dominic

Appologies Richard, I've just looked up the photo which is 1920s and so would imagine it's the same as yours. Do you have a location for the Bustard Trenches and is that Beacon Hill, Dorset?

Jon

Dear Jon,
no problems. The set on Beacon Hill are in Wilthshire (edge of Salisbury Plain training area). An approximate NGR for the Bustard Trenches is - SU 083473

Have just read the above post about the Barham trenches...amazing! Living nearby I never even knew they were there...you really DO learn something new every day!

"Have just read the above post about the Barham trenches...amazing! Living nearby I never even knew they were there...you really DO learn something new every day!"

Agreed! I live in Canterbury, and drive past there all the time, and I never knew they were they, I am downloading goolge earth and seeing if I can find anything intresting, also so going for a road trpi tomorrow.

Hi rachel

Let us know what you see, but I think they might be a bit disappointing as these are not earthworks but soil marks so all there might be to see is a flat field!

All the best
Dominic

We found out that the person who owns the land, my step-dad knows so at the weekend he is letting us into the field and looking round, he also has offered me some of the finds from the field, so it should be worth it.

we drove past it today but could not see anything becuase of the angle of the road, so really looking forward to the weekend now

I've just read this exchange about the Barham trenches - did you get into the field, Rachel?

We also live in the area - do Kent Pals ever meet up? It would be nice to meet some. We're in Canterbury every day at the moment.

Christina

Christina

Welcome back to Kent! I was last in contact with Rachel some months ago as I volunteered my assistance in checking over this find. I've not heard anything for a while but Rachel has I think been away at Uni.

Happy to discuss Verdun any time!

John

Hi John,

I'm also happy to discuss Verdun any time! We passed the field this morning. I'd love to walk over it when the crops have gone. I'll PM you later.

Christina

That sounds like a good idea to me!

John

Hi guy's

Sorry i have been unable to reply, but as John said, I've been stuck in derby, at uni, but as of next weekend I am back in Canterbury (woo hoo) so if we could get a group together and go their that would be great, my step dad found out who owns the fields, and we have driven around to have a look, but you cant see anything from the roads, around there, and we didnt want to have a field walk on our own, when we dont really know what we were looking for.
So if anyone wants to meet up and look, that would be great.

Much luv Rachel.

Hi Rachel,

Count us in for a field walk. We've got a wedding on 28th which might exclude us but we would like to be involved.

Christina

Rachel

I'd love to do the walk but am committed at the Detling Odyssey event that weekend. Please let me know if another date is possible later.

John

Hi again Rachel,

My husband reminded me about Detling the moment I had sent my answer to your post. We're not committed but he would also like to go there for one of the days.

Christina

Hi!

Wonderfull to see these images, have been in the area walking the WW2 pillboxes at Dover Hights. Have also been in the Penally Camp and Beacon Hill trenches, Penally are proberly in the best condition, having been dug from rock. I have seen trenches on the ground at Sandhurst, Shorncliffe, Aldershot and also know of others at Caterham, Boxhill and Chattenden. The trenches at Boxhill and Chattenden are different in that they formed real defencive lines, Chattenden also had a numbers of WW1 pillboxes that are well documented.

From my local knowledge - but not having seen either....

Practice trenches exist extensively in Norsey Wood, Billericay. Google earth isn't much good as it's...er...a 'wood'.

Practice trenches also exist at Ipswich Golf course.

Simon.

Martin B - get your ass down here to ESSSSSEEEEEEEXXXXXXXXXX soon.

Remembered this PDF document link:

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/....pdf?1252143246

This is a map showing the trenches on Beacon Hill near Bulford...

Not sure if these are WW1 practice trenches, but if so they survived a lot of WW2 developments around the area - did they have such a trench in WW2 ?

On another site that deals with pillboxes, there has been mentioned about WW1 and WW2 trenches in the same area at Dover. If you walk the area you come across defensive positions from the Cold War and back to the Bronze Age all mixed together. Some of these excavations could well be from WW1 as Dover was fortified with trenches during that period.

The strangest trenches I found were in Scadbury Manor in Chislehurst. These were a section of trenches that resembled those from WW1 and related to the position of the Manor, there were also possibly a number of shell holes. After asking a local archeoligist, it was explained the Manor was owned by the local Home Guard Commander. The area was surrowned by a number of fire trenches and even a possible Resistance Hide. They never knew of the trench system and had missed it during their field walks. I suppose it would have been excavated by Home Guard Soldiers who were just doing the same as they has 22 year before.

This may be of interest, found it looking for information for another thread:

http://www.defence-estates.mod.uk/publicat...tuary/index.php

Download Issue 33 and look on page 54. Covers the subject with images...