My man, a 6th Manchester, is buried at Baghdad, having died in October 1916.

The Battalionn was never in that theatre and, indeed, they suffered no fatalities in action throughout the whole of 1916. I can only think that he must have been taken prisoner at Gallipoli.

Does this premise hold water? Did the Turks send their PoWs to Mesoptamia?

John - I can't check the reference as I'm at work at the moment, but I'm sure that I've read recently that some prisoners taken at Gallipoli were indeed taken first to Constantinople, then onto Mesopotamia, to work on the railways. I'll see if I can find the reference.

Alan

Grateful to you, Alan.

This guy is one of only two fatalities suffered overseas by the battalion in 1916. The other, whose death certificate has arrived this morning, died of malaria in Egypt.

John

It would be interesting to see if there many in that cemetery from Gallipoli battalions of other regiments. That would tend to confirm Mr Rat`s suggestion.

John, if it's any use.....I did some work on my great uncle, from Salford, 8th Lancs Fusiliers, same 42nd Div as 6th M/crs....captured at Gallipoli,(vineyard attack, 8th August), was taken with many others to work on rail tunnel beneath the Atlas mountains, southern Turkey. Lots of Brits and Aussies died, all seem to be buried or commemorated at Baghdad...probably transferred post war...Baghdad seems to have been last resting place of many Gallipoli pows.

Regards, Peter

John - the reference I read was in Nigel McCrery's "All the Kings Men", concerning the Sandringham Company. He writes -

"There are no reliable figures for the total British and Dominion prisoners taken by the Turks during the Gallipoli campaign. The most accurate appraisal probably comes from the American ambassador in a communication prepared in February 1916, who put the total at approximately 490, of which at least 96 later died in captivity. Most of the other ranks were transferred to various work camps on the notorious Analotia railway and it was in these camps that the high proportion of deaths occurred as a result of the inhuman conditions imposed by their captors. In the early 1920s the remains of these unfortunate souls, where they could be located, were gathered in and individually re-interred in plot XXI, Baghdad (North Gate) War Cemetery. Those that could not be found are commemorated on special memorials in the same cemetery"

Alas, no sources are given for the information.

Alan

Excellent bit of work, both. Many thanks.

My man, Pte B Nobbs, is indeed buried in Plot XXI. Seems to be the final confirmation.

John

While indexing the register of WW1 Queen's POWs held at the Surrey History, I have so far identified 25 men from the 4th & 5th Battalions who were captured by the Turks, some attached to other regiments. 11 of which subsequently died and are buried at various sites throughout the Middle East.

regards

Bootneck

Hi John,

Private Bernard J. Nobbs, 1997, 6th Manchesters was indeed captured at Gallipoli, and appears to had been interned at the camp at Bilemedik Pouzantri, this information comes from a list furnished by the Ottoman "Red Crescent". Hope this helps. When you say your man, what relation or info have you got on him?

regards, Krithia

John

Have a look at this thread http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...c=72067&hl=.

Ray

Thanks for the confirmation and extra info.

I don't have any more to tell about him - my interest was simply sparked seeing his date of death and place of burial. Best bet for a date of capture will have been 7/8/15.

he is commemorated on the Stretford War Memorial.

John

Almost certainly capture was 7/8/15. Nobbs was also wounded 4th June 1915.

POWs from Gallipoli tended to have a varied career in captivity - different groups found themselves in all sorts of places all over Turkey - some were held in the area around Ankara, some in or around Constantinople/Istanbul but many eventually gravitated towards the railway being built through the Taurus Mountains. They had a tough time in the hands of the Turks, but much of the railway construction was done under the auspices of the Germans and they tended to feed and care for their prisoners to a better standard - not least because they needed well fed prisoners to work on the railway. None the less many suffered and died from illness and were typically interred in dedicated small cemeteries in or around their work camp. I believe the graves were well marked which probably made their concentration (typically to Baghdad North Gate Cemetery). Some POWs are also buried at Haidar Pasha Cemetery in Istanbul

pte 1997 bernard,james nobbs
1/6th manchesters
captured at sedul bair on 7-8-15
prisoner at kiangheri 410
22 canute rd,stretford
a report of his capture,was passed to the american embassy,on 2-3-16 from the red crescent
died 6-10-16
aged 22

mack

these men were also in the list,with pte nobbs

interred at constantinople
1775 james leyden 14th AIF,died in hospital culhane,on 13-8-15[CWGC says 11-8-15]
robert mcgregor,fife+forth yeo,captured 28-10-15 suvla bay,age 30
cpl w.pearson,fife+forth yeo,captured 30-10-15 suvla bay,age 22
thomas moffatt,fife+forth yeo,captured 29-8-15,suvla bay,age 19
richard lee,hampshire regt,23 abengden st,bethnal green,captured 6-8-15 achi baba,age 25
8915 thomas diss,30 coppermill lane,tooting,5th wiltshires,captured 17-11-15 anafarta,age 22[died 7-7-16]
cpl 12117 robert,thomas griffiths,16 castletown rd,wrexham,wife jane,age 32,RWF[died 14-11-16]

interred at tchanak-kale
3349 L/cpl thomas taylor,1/5th norfolks,B.coy,captured 12-8-15 anafarta

Hi manchester regiment

I was interested to read about James Leyden who now lies buried in Haidar Pasha cemetery, is he and also Thomas Taylor (1/5th Norfolks) listed on the American Embassy list. I have a copy but cannot find these two names. I have slowly been putting together an extended list of PoW names from the Gallipoli campaign so any more information is good information.

Hello Manchester Regiment, Krithia...Interesting to read of American list. in post 5 above I mentioned my great uncle, 305481 Harry Rosevere, 8th Lancs Fus, captured 7/8 August at the vineyard, worked as POW on rail tunnel at Belemedik Pozanti, died 11 march 1917, commemorated on Baghdad North gate.

Does he appear on the list you mention?

Many Thanks, Peter

Hi Peter,

Yes.

The list was communicated by the Foreign Office in 21st Feb 1916, listing all British PoWs in Turkey known to the American Embassy in Constantinople, received through the American Ambassador in London on 18th Feb 1916.

318 are mentioned as being transferred to Bozanti, the terminus then of the Anatolian Railway near the Taurus Mountains.

Yes your man is listed here, it simply says: ROSEVERE, HENRY, 8 LANCS. FUSRS B Co. 2371 (KIANGRI)

Note: Kiangri was a former camp he was interned at.

The only other snippet of info I have is from a translated Turkish document which was basically a debrief/interrogation paper when he was captured. When he was interviewed he was recorded to say "I fought on August 6. Turks are fighting very bravely". Very brief but not unusual. You don't want to give too much information away!

Hope this helps.

regards, Krithia

Krithia, that was info I didn't have, Many Thanks, Peter

Hi Peter,

by any chance do you have a photo of your great uncle Harry that you could post on this site?

hiya krithia.
the list of names,were mixed up in the service records of pte edwin haslam[manchester regt]it was a communication from the US embassy,all the men i posted,were on the list.

ps.are there anymore manchesters in your list.

regards
mack

Hello Krithia, sorry, wish I did, Regards Peter

Was Edwin Haslam a prisoner as well?

The manchesters I have listed are:

2323 Pte Christopher Nealon(1/7th Manch)
3417 Pte Percy Cubley(1/11th Manch)
3498 Sgt Albert Cherriman(1/11th Manch)
3726 Corp John Henry Espin(1/11th Manch)
3888 Pte Hugh Sellers(1/11th Manch)
Pte Joseph Ian Calstron(1/7th Manch)
1822 Pte John Pearson(1/7th Manch)
Lieutenant Edgar Granger (1/7th Manch)

regards , Krithia

thanks krithia.
edwin haslam,wasnt a POW,the POW communication seems to have got mixed up in his records

regards
mack

hiya krithia.
these are the details of two of the manchesters,in your list
3417 percy cubley
enl 17-8-14
aged 29
lived with his sister,mrs h.johnson,44 thurlow st,weaste
captured at sedul bahr,on 7-8-15
suffered a bullet wound,to his left elbow/forearm
admitted to hospital,constantinople
worked as a carman for the lancs+yorks railway,62 corporation st,manchester
born.1885 manchester
son of frederick+jane,46 gardenwall st,salford
repatriated at london,on 27-11-18,admitted to king georges hospital,stamford st,london,the same day
discharged classZ 26-3-19[from the 3rd batt]

3726 john,henry espin
enl 22-8-14
aged 29
occupation,stamper
religion,CofE
21 russell st,altrincham
married his wife ada,on 23-8-11 at altrincham
children,john,robert born 18-12-18 and ada,margaret born 5-3-14
reported killed in action,on 7-8-15
later reported POW and wounded at merkey,roumandain,constantinople[bullet wound left knee]
later reported as interned at angora,then bilemidick
repatriation,sailed from alexander,on 4-12-18,on the SS caledonia
arrived in england,on 17-12-18

mack
ps many thanks for the manchesters POWs

2323 christopher nealon lived at 24 hothersall st,salford,aged 24 when captured
1552 joseph,van calstron lived at 44 north george st,salford.

mack

Thanks for the extra info, I'll make a note.

thanks, Krithia

I have just joined after coming across the website yesterday and I am amazed at the information. A wonderful site and tribute to all those who endured such a terrible period of history.

I was excited to read the information regarding the P.O.W's held by the Turks. It was a mystery in my family of what happened to my Gt. Grandfather, George E. Spink, from Norfolk. Recently I came across a document which I a 99% sure is him. It is the medals awarded document, which gives shows he served in the RFA, rank: Bmbr. Regimental No: 57057. First theatre of war: 5a-Asiatic 17/11/14. There are also the serial numbers E/648491/1 and EF/9/4360 (4), which I don't know what they relate to. It also states: P.O.W Turkey 29/4/16. Dead.

Further research in the Commonwealth Graves Commission archives lists him buried in North Gate Cemetery, Baghdad, grave no: XXI.Q.38.

Does anyone know if any photos exist of individual graves, or the cemetery? I would also be grateful for any leads regarding his regiment or anything at all relating to him. Another mystery which I have not solved is regarding his son (my grandfather), George Robert Spink, b.26 July 1887. My father told me he was a P.O.W in WWI, escaped, and was bayonetted through both of his feet to prevent further attempts, and was a cripple as a result until he died in 1936. I have been unable to find any information at all regarding him, or his bother, James H. Spink. Any suggestions or information would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Icenitribe


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Hi Icenitribe,

I cannot find a SPINK listed for capture at Gallipoli, with that date he could well be a Kut garrison PoW. Good luck with your research.

Krithia

Hi Krithia, Thank you for looking.

Another member also suggested that the dates match those of the capture of troops at Kut. Apparently the division captured at Kut was the 6th Poona Division of the Indian Army, to which the 10th Brigade, RFA was attached, so I will try to find out more info in that direction.

If you, or anyone else has info, would be much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Icenitribe

Hello Krithia,

In reponse to your request regarding POW's of Gallipoli: Do you have Pte Andrew James Briggs (9th West Yorks) on your list? He was captured between the 7th-13th August and spent 3 years in various camps throughout Turkey. He is my grt grandfather and I would be interested to see whether you have any information on him. If you require more from me please let me know.

Regards

Keith

Hi Krithia and KJ, Excellent thread. I wonder if you have anything on a relative, Raymond Ellar, Corporal 10395, No2 Platoon 9Bn West Yorkshire regiment, captured 9 August 1915, along with his friend, Private Harry Ward. Raymond had been wounded 13 times by machine gun bullets, but was treated by a german doctor and later held as a pow in Bigha, Turkey. Harry received bayonet wounds in his arm and chest. Both survived the war. This info was from a newspaper article dated August 13 1965. Yours aye, Jim K

Hi Keith,

From the list of PoWs that was communicated by the Foreign Office on 21st Feb 1916, listing all British PoWs in Turkey known to the American Embassy in Constantinople, received through the American Ambassador in London on 18th Feb 1916.

Briggs is one of 318 Gallipoli PoWs that were interned at Kiangeri who were transferred to Bozanti (terminus of the Anatolian Railway near the Taurus Mountains)

The list is purely a list and amongst the names it shows;

Briggs, Andrew John. 9th W.Yorks C. Co. 10604 Kiangri

In another reference that is held within the Ottoman archives in Istanbul there is another listing;

10604 Pte. Andrew James Briggs C Co., 9th Batt., West Yorkshire Reg., 32nd Brig,. 11th Div.

Not riveting information but at least he is listed and recognised, so many didn’t survive long as a PoW and are now forgotten to history.

What may add to your research is his date of capture, this was almost certainly 9th August when the battalion fell back to Sulajik Farm from Scimitar Hill. This is supported by the Ottoman list that states Briggs as one of the prisoners handed over on 10th August.

Have you any further info that you are willing to share as I am trying to setup an archive with as much info as possible, including photos of the PoWs etc. If so, feel free to email me at stephenjohnchambers@gmail.com

thanks, Steve

Hi Jim,

i have a bit more info on Raymond Ellar, can you send me an email stephenjohnchambers@gmail.com and I'll send you what I have.

regards, Krithia

Thanks Krithia, your information definitely corroborates what I have and it helps narrow down the day of capture for me. Due to the extremely high casualties the battalion experienced that day I always pinpointed the 9th August. I will be in touch on the e-mail you gave out.

Jim, it would be extremely interesting to know whether my grt grandfather and your relative were captured at the same instant. As far as I know he was unwounded and missed a hail of machine gun bullets unlike the unfotunate Raymond.

The only other piece of information I've found regarding the capture circumstances was that 2nd Lieutenant H Davenport of the 9th West Yorks was captured on the 9th August. In TW White's memoirs 'guests of the Unspeakable' he mentions that Davenport was “Badly wounded in the foot and unable to retire when an exposed trench was evacuated, (he) was bayoneted five times, though luckily a cigarette case took the sting out of the most vigorous thrust.” (pge 149). Davenport relayed this when he shared a house with the Australian airman, White, at Afion Kara Hissar.
I've often wondered if my grt grandfather was in Davenport's section and had to put his hands up to survive after being left during the evacuation. All speculation of course but you never know.

I'd be interested in gleaning any further details of your relation's military & POW experiences if you'd care to share them, Jim. I'm currently researching the officers of the 9th battalion and various other ranks so any info would be welcome.

cheers

Hello KJBriggs, send me your e-mail address (jim@kilmartin.it) and I will copy you the press article. Once again, many thanks to Krithia for this amazing thread. Cheers, yours aye, Jim K

Krithia
Do you have Capt Douglas Pass of the Queen's Own Dorset Yeomanry on your list? He was captured on Scimitar Hill on 21 August?
John

Hi John,

Yes I have a bit on Captain Alfred Douglas Pass. He was one of three Dorsets captured on Scimitar Hill during the afternoon of 21st August. From what I understand the rest of the mounted brigade had pulled back suddenly leaving advanced units exposed. Quickly these men were overwhelmed and spent the rest of the war as guests of the Turks. I'll PM you some of the details a little later, they are not to hand at the moment.

What is your interest in Pass, maybe if you have any more facts I would very much like to find out a little more. I have been trying to find a photo of Pass for sometime, maybe something I should advertise on the forum as I am sure there is a portrait or officer group photo of the Dorset Yeomanry.

regards, Krithia

Krithia

I do have quite a bit more background information on Douglas Pass and also an image of a letter he wrote to Aspinall outlining the circumstances of his capture. Give me a couple of days and I will give you the low down. I would be very interested in your information.

I have researched the Dorset Yeomanry in Gallipoli in some detail. My father saw action with them there, and I have data on most if not all of the members of the regiment. Although there are photographs of quite a few of the officers, I have not found one of Douglas Pass unfortunately. As you may know he subsequently became chairman of Dorset County Council.

John

I wonder if you would happen to have anything on this soldier please Krithia ?

George Henri William Bibby, 7th North Staffordshire Regiment (private 7902) and later on Sapper at the Royal Engineers.( 357208)

Thanking you in advance

Annie

Hi Annie,

Not much, he arrived at Gallipoli on 26/10/15 according to is medal index card, but I have no record of him being a Pow, captured at Gallipoli. Have you any other information to support this?

thanks, Krithia

Hi Krithia !

This is all I have ... I received this message from a Dutch lady ! ... though I'm wondering if she has the right medal card !!