ph0ebus
Apr 2 2009, 02:36 AM
Hi all,
Not sure if this is the right spot to park this, but here goes:
On April 16, 1916, a 44 year-old Englishman from Sheffield by the name of Albert Edwards Bell arrived at Ellis Island on a British-owned DAMS en route to the British Embassy in Washington DC. He apparently departed Liverpool on March 25th and made the transatlantic journey, according to his own statement, 'in disguise'. My question is: who was this man, and how might I determine his relationship to the British Embassy? Though on the Manifest he gives his occupation as a 'skilled laborer', given his destination and his efforts to hide his identity, might that indicate he was a spy? Or some other type of agent for the British Government? Is this a total shot in the dark?
Thanks,
-Daniel
Kath
Apr 2 2009, 12:57 PM
Daniel,
Have you access to the original ship's Manifest?
There's an entry for next of kin: "Wife, no? City Road, Sheffield."
I can't make out the no. on City Road.
Which column does it say "in disguise"?
Can you copy it to the Forum?
Kath.
ph0ebus
Apr 2 2009, 01:11 PM
Hi Kath,
I will add additional info tonight, as I am only able to get sporadic access to the forum whilst in transit, or at home. The notation about being in disguise is not on the manifest but rather a postcard once owned by the aforementioned gentleman; it was curious notation on the postcard that led me to the manifest. He was married, but I do not have a hard copy on hand at present to extract the pertinent info from. If you do not want to wait you can look him up via the Ellis Island web site, using last name only, year of arrival (1916) and ship name (California).
-Daniel
truthergw
Apr 2 2009, 01:26 PM
All the major powers spied on each other as well as the enemy. Almost certainly still do.
phil w
Apr 2 2009, 01:45 PM
I have found an Albert E. Bell on the census returns for 1881 and 1891 that fits with the details you have given. The details are as follows:-
Year of birth approx. 1871.
Fathers name. John
Mothers name. Sarah A.
Address 26 Ash Street, Nether Hallam, Sheffield. Yorks.
Occupation, Manufacturers clerk.
These details are from the 1891 census. The 1881 census is the same but he is described as a scholar.
I have just found the 1901 census returns. He is still living in Nether Hallam but with wife Lilian and five children and a housemaid. The address is 321 Springvale road and his occupation is as a Commercial Traveller.
It appears he may have been a civilian contractor doing his bit for the war effort, the sailing details may give more details.
I noted from the census details that his father was employed as a steel roll maker, he made quite a deal of progress in 20 years.
The most likely scenario is that he was engaged in the purchase of war materials on behalf of the British Government from the USA which at that time was neutral and American seaports were thought to abound with German spies.
Kath
Apr 2 2009, 02:07 PM
Phil,
There's more than one Albert E. Bell.
1901
!0, Andrew St. (Wicker) age 31 Iron Turner/Fitter born Sheffield.
but I can only find one Birth entry which I think is for your Albert:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1871
BELL Albert Edward Ecclesall Bierlaw 9c 255
Phoebus,
I found him on the Ellis site, but haven't a subscription.
Kath.
Jim Clay
Apr 2 2009, 02:17 PM
The 1911 Census has a handful of Albert Bells (with a Lilian Bell in the household) in the West Riding:
Click to view attachmentThe 40 year old in Ecclesall Bierlow may be your man - but it'll cost a few credits to check.
Jim
Kath
Apr 2 2009, 04:09 PM
Sheffield Trade Directory Index
title forename surname occupation abode directory
Albert E. BELL Silver Finisher Bailey Lane; h. 106 Nicholson Road, Heeley White's 1911
Albert Edward BELL Comcl. Trav. 271 Western Road White's 1911
Albert Edward BELL Tontine Hotel, 2 Dixon Lane & Haymarket White's 1911
Albert BELL Asylum attendant 95 Wynyard Road, Hillsborough White's 1919
Albert E BELL Silver finisher 33 Holly Lane White's 1919
Ernest Albert BELL Edge tool manufacturer 56 St Mary's Road White's 1919
Albert BELL Mental hospital attendant 95 Wynyard Road, Hillsborough Kelly's 1925
Albert Edward BELL Traveller 123 Shiregreen Lane, Shire Green Kelly's 1925
Albert Ernest BELL Silver finisher 33 Holly Lane & 54 Holly Street Kelly's 1925
Ernest Albert BELL Edge tool manufacturer (Bell & Son) 56 St Mary's Road Kelly's 1925
Kath.
phil w
Apr 2 2009, 05:38 PM
QUOTE (Kath @ Apr 2 2009, 02:07 PM)

Phil,
There's more than one Albert E. Bell.
1901
!0, Andrew St. (Wicker) age 31 Iron Turner/Fitter born Sheffield.
but I can only find one Birth entry which I think is for your Albert:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1871
BELL Albert Edward Ecclesall Bierlaw 9c 255
Phoebus,
I found him on the Ellis site, but haven't a subscription.
Kath.
Kath,Jim. I found two Albert E. Bell's on the census but the one I quoted was the only one that fitted with date of birth and coming from Sheffield. This is the one second on your list from the White's trade directory and could be the second entry in Kelly's directory.
On the 1901 census his children are:- Albert E., John R. 7 years (twins?), George E. 5 years, William A, 2 years and Reginald 4 months.
The older boys will have been of military age by 1914 and I will be looking into that aspect.
ph0ebus
Apr 3 2009, 02:16 AM
Hi all,
Back at home, and just freshly transcribed the Ellis Island Manfest Entry, shown below:
Albert Edwards Bell Entry in Ship’s Manifest (T.S.S. California)
Departed Liverpool March 25, 1916 – Arrived New York April 6, 1916
Family Name: Bell
Given Name: Albert Edwards
Age (Years): 44
Age (months): -------
Sex: M
Married or Single: M
Calling or Occupation: Skilled Labourer
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Nationality: Great Britain
Race or People: English
Last Permanent Residence (Country): England
Last Permanent Residence (City/Town): Sheffield
The name and complete address of
Nearest relative or friend in country
Whence alien came: wife Lillian Bell, 220 City Road, Sheffield
Final Destination (State) DC
Final Destination (City) Washington
Whether having a ticket to such final
Destination: Yes
By Whom Passage was Paid? Self/Comunally (?)
Whether in possession of $50 or if less
How much:? $60
Whether ever in United States before? Yes
Whether going to join a relative or
Friend, and if so, what relative or friend
And his name and complete address? British Embassy, Washington DC
Ever in prison or almshouse… No
Whether a polygamist? No
Whether an anarchist? No
Whether copming by reason of some offer No
Condition of Health, Mental and Physical? Good
Deformed or Crippled, Nature, Length
Of time, and cause: No
Height (feet): 5
Height (inches): 5
Complexion: Med Dark
Color of (Hair): Black
Color of (Eyes): Grey
Marks of Identification: Slight Scar over right eye
Place of Birth (Country): England
Place of Birth (City or Town): Sheffield
Given he was 44 at the time of his sailing (1916), that would put his DOB around 1872-ish. The 1871 DOBs are still in the ballpark. So, what do we think of him? Once I read the bit about the dark complexion and scar above the eye, I just had to smile. FYI, there were a few others on board the same trip also destined for the British Consulate. Phil W, your comment about his being on a purchasing mission for the British Governement caught my attention...can you say a bit more about how that worked? How did the Consulate tie in?
-Daniel
phil w
Apr 3 2009, 08:36 AM
Daniel. I was only suggesting that this could be the purpose of his journey. The British Government set out to acquire all types of strategic materials if for no other reason but to deny it to Germany. He sounds a bit to old to be a "James Bond" and hails from Sheffield which is the major steel production City of England.
I am 99% certain I have identified the correct person from the census returns as he was the only one who "ticked all the boxes" and his occupation (commercial traveller) fits in with such a scenario. This is made even more certain by the wife's name tying in with the information you have just given. The next port of call would be to check the electorial register for Sheffield for the years 1911 to 1916 but I am unable to do this as they are not on line. I have also checked the telephone directories unfortunately they only show someone who could possibly be his son.
phil w
Apr 3 2009, 09:45 AM
I have looked up my candidate on the 1911 census. He is now the father of no less than 9 children! The other details are the same as the 1901 census so I must have the right person.
As his elder sons were of military age does anyone know the best sources to find out if they done any military service?
Kath
Apr 3 2009, 10:35 AM
Now that we have all the details, Bell, commercial traveller wife Lillian, fits, but why describe himself as 'Skilled Labourer'?
Can we see the postcard, Phoebus?
202, City Road:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sour...512428298279136Phil, he seems to be back in Sheffield in 1925 (Kelly's).
Kath.
centurion
Apr 3 2009, 12:07 PM
I note from the Ellis island document that this was not his first visit to America - unusual for a skilled labourer at the time! I wonder if someone had 'officially' borrowed Bell's identity so as to travel incognito.
phil w
Apr 3 2009, 01:10 PM
QUOTE (centurion @ Apr 3 2009, 12:07 PM)

I note from the Ellis island document that this was not his first visit to America - unusual for a skilled labourer at the time! I wonder if someone had 'officially' borrowed Bell's identity so as to travel incognito.
I think it is unlikely that someone would use the identity of a family man in such circumstances. He would have held a passport, they were introduced in 1915. If he had made a previouse visit can he be found in the U.S. immigration records? Over to you ph0ebus.
Despite his prosperity his background is working class which means he could easily slip into the "skilled labourer" role. It might even be his actual job, it would not be unusual for workers to be dispatched to perform work at an embassy were there was a security risk in employing local labour. Remember that many Americans were of German descent.
phil w
Apr 3 2009, 01:25 PM
QUOTE (Kath @ Apr 3 2009, 10:35 AM)

Now that we have all the details, Bell, commercial traveller wife Lillian, fits, but why describe himself as 'Skilled Labourer'?
Can we see the postcard, Phoebus?
202, City Road:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sour...512428298279136Phil, he seems to be back in Sheffield in 1925 (Kelly's).
Kath.
Kath, thanks for that, I don't know what address he was living at in 1911, it costs a small fortune on the 1911 website. He had 9 children including a new born who had not been named at the time of the census, plus a housemaid, plus an elderly couple who were lodgers! quite a squeeze. Could you possibly ask your local library for the electorial rolls for 1901-1914? Very few of these are online at the moment but as you are 'local' you may be able to find more information. They are in street order so as we have the addresses it should be easy to locate.
ph0ebus
Apr 3 2009, 01:47 PM
Hi Phil, all...
I will plumb the depths of the Ellis Island Website and see if I can locate previous trips for Mr. Bell. I do not have a scan of the card but can provide a transcript of what it says. The card was postally unused. It does not offer much:
"The ship that brought me over, but disguised." (signed by) "Bell"
Given the man is long dead, what are the odds a request of the British Embassy in Washington DC to see if they know this fellow will bear fruit? Anyone ever try to get such info via a straightforward request before?
I know I put in a request to the British Embassy in NYC a few years back as a part of my research into the loss of the California and they completely and totally blew me off with a generic 'thanks for your email, visit our web site' email.
-Daniel
MartinBennitt
Apr 3 2009, 02:33 PM
QUOTE (ph0ebus @ Apr 3 2009, 03:47 PM)

"The ship that brought me over, but disguised." (signed by) "Bell"
-Daniel
Is he not possibly referring to the ship that was disguised in some way, e.g. to fool submarines?
just a thought
cheers Martin B
phil w
Apr 3 2009, 03:28 PM
I looked up the T.S.S. California on Google. There is nothing to indicate that the vessel would have been disguised. Interestingly she caught fire when docked at pier 64 in Manhattan on the evening of 13 May 1916, the fire was put out later that evening and it transpired that she was loaded with munitions! another Halifax disaster was only just avoided.
She eventually was sunk on the 7 Feb 1917 by a torpedo fired by U-85 off of Ireland on her way to Glasgow.
centurion
Apr 3 2009, 04:06 PM
QUOTE (phil w @ Apr 3 2009, 04:28 PM)

I looked up the T.S.S. California on Google. There is nothing to indicate that the vessel would have been disguised. Interestingly she caught fire when docked at pier 64 in Manhattan on the evening of 13 May 1916, the fire was put out later that evening and it transpired that she was loaded with munitions! another Halifax disaster was only just avoided.
She eventually was sunk on the 7 Feb 1917 by a torpedo fired by U-85 off of Ireland on her way to Glasgow.
Might she have been dazzle painted at the time the photo was taken?
Disguised at one time meant 'not myself' and was a euphemism for drunk however I suspect that this usage had ceased by 1916.
phil w
Apr 3 2009, 06:12 PM
The only cargo/passenger ships painted in dazzle camoflage were those used as troop and supply ships in a battle zone such as the Dardanelles. Wearing their civilian colours was less likely to draw attention until the Germans started attacking all vessels in April 1917.
There is no evidence that the TSS California was painted in any camoflage in the photographs of her. She continued on her peacetime route after the declaration of war until she was torpedoed by U-85.
phil w
Apr 3 2009, 06:21 PM
QUOTE (Jim Clay @ Apr 2 2009, 02:17 PM)

The 1911 Census has a handful of Albert Bells (with a Lilian Bell in the household) in the West Riding:
Click to view attachmentThe 40 year old in Ecclesall Bierlow may be your man - but it'll cost a few credits to check.
Jim
That is the one, I used up my credits to check,

all the chidrens names and ages tie up.
Kath
Apr 3 2009, 07:24 PM
I think he was referring to the ship that was disguised.
Phil, see post 8 for addresses.
Albert Edward BELL Comcl. Trav. 271 Western Road White's 1911
Albert Edward BELL Traveller 123 Shiregreen Lane, Shire Green Kelly's 1925
Kath.
centurion
Apr 3 2009, 07:37 PM
QUOTE (phil w @ Apr 3 2009, 07:12 PM)

The only cargo/passenger ships painted in dazzle camoflage were those used as troop and supply ships in a battle zone such as the Dardanelles.
Dazzle painting was not intoduced until 1916 so not the Dardanelles. Many cargo ships not just troop carriers were painted in it.
Edit. In 1917 some 4,000 merchant ships were painted in dazzle (and 400 warships) (source The Tate, Art Culture and Camoflage)
phil w
Apr 3 2009, 07:44 PM
I've taken a look at some of the other addresses on Google earth. 321 Springvale road is still there but some of the others have gone. 123 Shiregreen road is still there and still looks very salubrious.
If the ship was disguised it might be some sort of structure to make it look like another vessel to confuse any attacker.
phil w
Apr 3 2009, 08:01 PM
QUOTE (centurion @ Apr 3 2009, 07:37 PM)

Dazzle painting was not intoduced until 1916 so not the Dardanelles. Many cargo ships not just troop carriers were painted in it.
Edit. In 1917 some 4,000 merchant ships were painted in dazzle (and 400 warships) (source The Tate, Art Culture and Camoflage)
Do you have the precise date that dazzle painting was introduced?
phil w
Apr 3 2009, 09:07 PM
QUOTE (ph0ebus @ Apr 3 2009, 02:16 AM)

Hi all,
Given he was 44 at the time of his sailing (1916), that would put his DOB around 1872-ish. The 1871 DOBs are still in the ballpark. So, what do we think of him? Once I read the bit about the dark complexion and scar above the eye, I just had to smile. FYI, there were a few others on board the same trip also destined for the British Consulate. Phil W, your comment about his being on a purchasing mission for the British Governement caught my attention...can you say a bit more about how that worked? How did the Consulate tie in?
-Daniel
Daniel, those few others you spoke about destined for the British Consulate have you any way of finding out what their occupations were. Even better if we knew the details the same as our subject we may be able to find out what was going on.
Grantowi
Apr 4 2009, 12:46 AM
Heres the listing from FMP:
Name: Albert BELL
Date of departure: 25 March 1916
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: New York, USA
Passenger destination: New York, USA
Date of Birth: 1872 (calculated from age)
Age: 44
Marital status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Admiralty Skilled Labourer
Passenger recorded on: Page 3 of 16
Ship: CALIFORNIA
Official Number: 129599
Master's name: John L Henderson
Steamship Line: Cunard
Where bound: New York, USA
Square feet: 5545
Registered tonnage: 5335
Passengers on voyage: 160
Here he's listed as an Admiralty Skilled Labourer, Why would a Labourer, even an admiralty one be sent to a consulate ?
Grant
Edit - He was traveling with a party of 6 other Skilled Labourers (aging from 21 to 57) and all had indicated that the USA was to be their "Intended future permanent residence"
Grantowi
Apr 4 2009, 01:13 AM
Further sleuthing revels that a Albert E BELL (no age given) left Liverpool on the 19th March 1910 enroute to New York, also travelling 3rd class with a party of 12 other labourers (all with individual tickets - in the previous post they are all on one ticket)
Name of the ship - LUSITANIA
Grant
ph0ebus
Apr 4 2009, 01:32 AM
Hi all,
I am fairly confident the California never saw a dazzle paint scheme. She was used for CEF transport duty in 1915-1916 but only on 3 occasions, and those were interspersed with regular civilian duty. I think Mr. Bell was in disguise, not the ship. Of course, just because I have never encountered a picture of her in dazzle does not mean it did not happen.
BTW, I struck out on Ellis Island's web site...no more ID'd trips for Mr. Bell. I left the search wide open to all incoming passengers named Bell and the only spot-on match was the one I already have. The rest were way off either in age, nationality or both. This, of course means that either:
1) Bell came to the US via a port other than New York on his other trip(s), or
2) Bell came to the US using a different name, or
3) Ellis Island biffed the relevant record when transcribing, making it difficult if not impossible to locate, or
4) Bell lied about being in the US before
The plot thickens...
-Daniel
ph0ebus
Apr 4 2009, 01:53 AM
QUOTE (Grantowi @ Apr 3 2009, 09:13 PM)

Further sleuthing revels that a Albert E BELL (no age given) left Liverpool on the 19th March 1910 enroute to New York, also travelling 3rd class with a party of 12 other labourers (all with individual tickets - in the previous post they are all on one ticket)
Name of the ship - LUSITANIA
Grant
Hi Grant...
How odd. I am in Ellis Island's website right now, and entering just his last name 'Bell', ship name 'Lusitania' and arrival year '1910' I get no Albert E Bell. If I search 'Albert Bell' and the year I still get nothing.
-Daniel
Grantowi
Apr 4 2009, 01:58 AM
Daniel,
Name: Albert E BELL
Date of departure: 19 March 1910
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: New York, USA
Passenger destination: New York, USA
Date of Birth:
Age: Adult
Marital status: Single
Sex: Male
Occupation: Labr
Passenger recorded on: Page 6 of 50
Ship: LUSITANIA
Official Number: 124682
Master's name: J T W Charles
Steamship Line: Cunard
Where bound: New York, USA
Square feet: 21485
Registered tonnage: 9145
Passengers on voyage: 1844
I'm not telling porkies, honest :-)
Grant
ph0ebus
Apr 4 2009, 02:01 AM
QUOTE (phil w @ Apr 3 2009, 05:07 PM)

Daniel, those few others you spoke about destined for the British Consulate have you any way of finding out what their occupations were. Even better if we knew the details the same as our subject we may be able to find out what was going on.
Hi Phil,
I was able to find three on the same manifest as Mr. Bell. They are:
Charles Glossop, Skilled Labor, Age 57 from Sheffield
Charles George Holdsworth, Skilled Labor, Age 21 from Sheffield
Ernest Richardson, Skilled Labor, Age 47 from Manchester
Do you need more? If so, let me know and I will 'consult the oracle'.

-Daniel
Grantowi
Apr 4 2009, 02:13 AM
The Albert E BELL that Phil has identified in #5 has "manufactures Clerk" for an occupation in 1891.
Could this be him in 1910 on the CELTIC bound for New York ?
Name: Mr A E BELL
Date of departure: 2 July 1910
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: New York, USA
Passenger destination: New York, USA
Date of Birth:
Age: Adult
Marital status: Single
Sex: Male
Occupation: Clerk
As for the others on the CALIFORNIA, they are all "Admiralty Skilled Labourers" according to FMP ranging in age from 21 to 57 and all have indicated they intend to make the USA home
Grant
ph0ebus
Apr 4 2009, 02:16 AM
QUOTE (Grantowi @ Apr 3 2009, 09:58 PM)

Daniel,
Name: Albert E BELL
Date of departure: 19 March 1910
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: New York, USA
Passenger destination: New York, USA
Date of Birth:
Age: Adult
Marital status: Single
Sex: Male
Occupation: Labr
Passenger recorded on: Page 6 of 50
Ship: LUSITANIA
Official Number: 124682
Master's name: J T W Charles
Steamship Line: Cunard
Where bound: New York, USA
Square feet: 21485
Registered tonnage: 9145
Passengers on voyage: 1844
I'm not telling porkies, honest :-)
Grant
I don't doubt you...there is no record of his arrival on that ship on that date viewable via Ellis Island's web site. I have the March 19th Manifest up on my screen and there are only 2 Bells on it: William Bell and Francis S Bell. Just to be thorough I checked the list for those who boarded at Queendstown and he's not there either.
Argh.
-Daniel
Grantowi
Apr 4 2009, 02:23 AM
There is no Francis S BELL on FMP only Wm.
Possable transcribing error ?
Are you able to look at the original passenger sheets ? FMP has Albert listed on page 6
Grant
ph0ebus
Apr 4 2009, 02:36 AM
Hi Grant, all...
Doesn't this whole business strike you as a bit odd? Here are several Admiralty Skilled Labourers all deciding to emigrate together in the thick of the War to America? Around this time things still had not hit the tipping point, so why leave Britain now? Given the wide span in ages, certainly they were not all retiring. And why leave their spouses and families behind?
Also, re: the manifest pages, I will scroll through and have another look the old fashioned way for Albert. Francis S Bell must be a transcribing error as I saw his hand-written entry with my own eyes just moments ago. Albert E is not on page 6. I'll keep looking, but just so you know, the Lucy Manifest is 85 pages long!
-Daniel
Grantowi
Apr 4 2009, 05:29 AM
Daniel,
Sorry for the delay, this forum furns to treacle at the 3.30 / 4.30 AM and it takes forever to upload stuff.
According to the FMP site the LUSITANIA list is 50 pages long and Albert is on page 6 - post# 32 is a cut and paste from their site.
Have you found the Albert in post# 34 yet, this is the chap that Phil has found in the census's
He started as a Clerk (1891 census and 1910 CELTIC) and then evolved into a commercial traveller (1901 census), then into a Labourer (1910 LUSITANIA) and finally into a skilled labourer (1916 CALIFORNIA)
Maybe that is his disguise - traveller and when war starts to loom as a labourer
Grant
PM me your email and I'll send a scan of the LUSITANIA page - just so that you'll belive me :-)
phil w
Apr 4 2009, 08:23 AM
QUOTE (Grantowi @ Apr 4 2009, 02:13 AM)

The Albert E BELL that Phil has identified in #5 has "manufactures Clerk" for an occupation in 1891.
Could this be him in 1910 on the CELTIC bound for New York ?
Name: Mr A E BELL
Date of departure: 2 July 1910
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: New York, USA
Passenger destination: New York, USA
Date of Birth:
Age: Adult
Marital status: Single
Sex: Male
Occupation: Clerk
As for the others on the CALIFORNIA, they are all "Admiralty Skilled Labourers" according to FMP ranging in age from 21 to 57 and all have indicated they intend to make the USA home
Grant
Not the one I'm Afraid, Our Albert Bell was married with eight kids at the time.
phil w
Apr 4 2009, 08:35 AM
QUOTE (ph0ebus @ Apr 4 2009, 02:36 AM)

Hi Grant, all...
Doesn't this whole business strike you as a bit odd? Here are several Admiralty Skilled Labourers all deciding to emigrate together in the thick of the War to America? Around this time things still had not hit the tipping point, so why leave Britain now? Given the wide span in ages, certainly they were not all retiring. And why leave their spouses and families behind?
Also, re: the manifest pages, I will scroll through and have another look the old fashioned way for Albert. Francis S Bell must be a transcribing error as I saw his hand-written entry with my own eyes just moments ago. Albert E is not on page 6. I'll keep looking, but just so you know, the Lucy Manifest is 85 pages long!
-Daniel
The British Government were buying a lot of war materials from the USA at the time. This could be something to do with this. I wish I knew a source of information on what was acquired from the States during the Great War. It appears to be some sort of Naval equipment by the nature of the people sent abroad, perhaps to advise or check specifications?
phil w
Apr 4 2009, 09:56 AM
I have tried to find out a bit more information on American supplies to the UK without much luck. Its knowing were to look in the first place!
phil w
Apr 4 2009, 01:35 PM
QUOTE (ph0ebus @ Apr 4 2009, 01:32 AM)

Hi all,
I am fairly confident the California never saw a dazzle paint scheme. She was used for CEF transport duty in 1915-1916 but only on 3 occasions, and those were interspersed with regular civilian duty. I think Mr. Bell was in disguise, not the ship. Of course, just because I have never encountered a picture of her in dazzle does not mean it did not happen.
BTW, I struck out on Ellis Island's web site...no more ID'd trips for Mr. Bell. I left the search wide open to all incoming passengers named Bell and the only spot-on match was the one I already have. The rest were way off either in age, nationality or both. This, of course means that either:
1) Bell came to the US via a port other than New York on his other trip(s), or
2) Bell came to the US using a different name, or
3) Ellis Island biffed the relevant record when transcribing, making it difficult if not impossible to locate, or
4) Bell lied about being in the US before
The plot thickens...
-Daniel
He may well have entered the United States through Canada. This would be the most likely scenario if he wanted to enter the US without German agents knowing. By the time of this visit the USA was still neutral but the spy hysteria of the early war years had died down in the UK.
Greg
Apr 4 2009, 04:56 PM
I am inclined to agree with Kath that the wording suggests that the ship was disguised rather than Mr Bell. I also wonder whether the Embassy was simply a 'post restante'- a point of contact rather than an employer. I have also noted the terms consulate and embassy . The difference is important . Up until 1914, if I remember correctly the consulates and embassies were different services ie they were manned by quite distinct bodies of personnel. The Foreign Office did not like espionage and it was often carried on through consulates. Embassies were much grander places.
There was an intelligence operation in New York- it was started to watch the Irish but its role widened during the war I am trying to think what I saw this in-I have a feeling it was in an article by Nicholas Hiley on British Intelligence. Richard Popplewell also makes some comments on intelligence operationsin the USA which were used to watch militant Indians. British intelligence also released the Zimmerman telegram which had an important impact on bringing the US into the war. This was I think intercepted in Mexico.
I do not think you would get much information from the British Embassy in Washington - it is highly unlikely it would hold records for so long -they would have been returned to the Foreign Office and then those considered useful retained and released later toteh Public Records Office. Worth looking for files on the Washington Embassy in the Foreign Office section of the National Archives- the catalogue is available online.
Greg
phil w
Apr 4 2009, 05:14 PM
It could be a purchasing mission. As our subject is involved with the steel industry and some of the others hail from Sheffield suggests that they would be involved in acquiring steel products. The word Admiralty implies this would be for the navy. This implies that they were involved in purchasing material or even complete vessels. I do not know of any Royal Navy vessels acquired from the US at this time but it is possible that construction of merchant vessels was required to make up for U-boat losses.
Whatever the circumstances the description "skilled labourer" does seem to have been used to hide the true purpose of their mission.
phil w
Apr 4 2009, 08:12 PM
I have found the departure details for Albert Bell and those who travelled with him from the passenger list of the TSS California.
Beckly Stephen 50
Bell Albert 44
Walker Fred R. 41
Holdsworth Chas. 21
Richardson Ernest 47
Glassop Chas. 57
They are all described as skilled labourers (Admiralty) and they all travelled on the same ticket No. 14450! And they all travelled 2nd class.
Albert Bell also made a subsequent Journey later that same year departing Liverpool on the 23rd September 1916 on the American vessel Philadelphia bound for New York, only this time apparently alone and travelling first class!
Was there any Royal Navy ships in any USA ports for repair?
Their place of residence on all the lists was given as USA, as was everyone else on the passenger lists (or Canada) despite the majority being British citizens. Perhaps this was only to differentiate between people going to either the USA or Canada.
phil w
Apr 4 2009, 09:38 PM
QUOTE (ph0ebus @ Apr 4 2009, 01:32 AM)

Hi all,
BTW, I struck out on Ellis Island's web site...no more ID'd trips for Mr. Bell. I left the search wide open to all incoming passengers named Bell and the only spot-on match was the one I already have. The rest were way off either in age, nationality or both. This, of course means that either:
1) Bell came to the US via a port other than New York on his other trip(s), or
2) Bell came to the US using a different name, or
3) Ellis Island biffed the relevant record when transcribing, making it difficult if not impossible to locate, or
4) Bell lied about being in the US before
The plot thickens...
-Daniel
Daniel, I have found a possible arrival for Albert Bell, in 1900 when he was only 19 years old. He arrived in New York on Aug 05 1900 aboard the American Line vessel New York. I have been unable to find a passenger list for this voyage.
phil w
Apr 4 2009, 10:03 PM
The SS New York and the SS Philadelphia were actually sister ships. The SS New York was built as The City of New York in 1888. The SS Philadelphia was built as the City of Paris in 1889. Both vessels were built in Glasgow for the Inman and International Steam Navigation Co. of London.
ph0ebus
Apr 5 2009, 02:44 AM
QUOTE (Greg @ Apr 4 2009, 12:56 PM)

I am inclined to agree with Kath that the wording suggests that the ship was disguised rather than Mr Bell. I also wonder whether the Embassy was simply a 'post restante'- a point of contact rather than an employer. I have also noted the terms consulate and embassy . The difference is important . Up until 1914, if I remember correctly the consulates and embassies were different services ie they were manned by quite distinct bodies of personnel. The Foreign Office did not like espionage and it was often carried on through consulates. Embassies were much grander places.
There was an intelligence operation in New York- it was started to watch the Irish but its role widened during the war I am trying to think what I saw this in-I have a feeling it was in an article by Nicholas Hiley on British Intelligence. Richard Popplewell also makes some comments on intelligence operationsin the USA which were used to watch militant Indians. British intelligence also released the Zimmerman telegram which had an important impact on bringing the US into the war. This was I think intercepted in Mexico.
I do not think you would get much information from the British Embassy in Washington - it is highly unlikely it would hold records for so long -they would have been returned to the Foreign Office and then those considered useful retained and released later toteh Public Records Office. Worth looking for files on the Washington Embassy in the Foreign Office section of the National Archives- the catalogue is available online.
Greg
Hi Greg, all...
In nearly nine years of active research into this ship I have not come across a single mention or photo of the California in Dazzle. However, as I had said before, just because I haven't come across it doesn't necessarily signify anything...perhaps I am looking in the wrong places? FYI...the postcard the message was written on was their stock postcard, pictured below:
Click to view attachmentPerhaps someone else on the forum with a penchant for Dazzle-painted ships might tackle this aspect of this line of inquiry?
It looks like a trip back to the PRO for me...will let everyone know if I find anything of note.
Phil, re: the Albert Bell from the New York manifest...the year of birth is off. That Albert would have been born in 1881, whereas the Albert Bell we're looking at was born in 1871, give or take a year...sorry!
I did however get a promising hit on Ancestry: Albert Bell - Entry at New York from Liverpool on Umbria May 25 1891 - his stated DOB was about 1872, which is in the right range. Anyone think this might be the same chap? His occupation on this manifest is 'Labourer'.

-Daniel
phil w
Apr 5 2009, 04:41 AM
Daniel, Sorry about that

I have just realised my mistake. I will go and stand in the corner with my Dunces cap on.
I will try to find the passenger list for the Umbria.
phil w
Apr 5 2009, 05:38 AM
QUOTE (ph0ebus @ Apr 5 2009, 02:44 AM)

I did however get a promising hit on Ancestry: Albert Bell - Entry at New York from Liverpool on Umbria May 25 1891 - his stated DOB was about 1872, which is in the right range. Anyone think this might be the same chap? His occupation on this manifest is 'Labourer'.
-Daniel
I can not find any passenger list for the date with A Bell. This is possibly a different person as the 1891 census in which he was described as a manufacturers clerk took place only a month prior to this sailing. I am checking the passport applications that are available (1874 to 1903) but this will take a little time and it is only a list of names.
The person we are looking at his birth was registered in the second quarter (April-June) 1871 as he is not on the census for that year which took place on 2nd April that narrows his date of birth down to April-June 1871.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.