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Recently I picked up this little photo with a hunch that it may have been taken at Gallipoli, which turns out, I hope, to be correct. Last week whilst in Istanbul I got the inscription translated. It reads The Victory of Çanakkale - 9 Jan 1916 - 5th Army.. Of course, 9th Jan 1916 being the date of the British evacuation from Helles.

Calling on all you Gallipoli experts, can we locate where the memorial is, or was. In ten years visiting the area I am lost to its location.

regards, Krithia

If anyone knows it would be Klaus Wolf, as he has studied the Gallipoli memorials for years, and lived in Turkey for years (and has Turkish), but I understand that he is probably not able to "forum" at the moment, due to other priorities. His book covers the contemporary memorials in some detail, many have not survived. I have just poked thru his section "Deutsche Verluste und der Soldatenfriedhof in Tarabya", pp. 206-222, and it has photos of a number of memorials to the dead of Gallipoli, and the memorial in your photo and the scene is not depicted. It seems to be a Turkish memorial, not German.

Over the left rear of the soldiers, past the substantial fence with pillars, isn't there a two story substantial building? (You can tell better than my tired eyes, as you have the original.) That does not seem to fit in with the actual battlefield. The leg bindings worn by the German soldiers only began to be worn widely by certain specialized units in 1916 (units that never popped up in Turkey, I believe), and by troops in general in 1917, so I think that the photo should be dated 1917-1918. Is there anything on the reverse? I can read the old scripts. (Not Ottoman Turkish; I am not Superman.)

Bob Lembke

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your reply. I have checked "Deutsche Verluste und der Soldatenfriedhof in Tarabya" as well and cannot find this memorial, so maybe one for Klaus when he re-surfaces. The memorial is definately Turkish so it is possible that this wouldn't have been included in the book.

The buildings are single story and appear to be barrack type structures, so possible an Ottoman army camp somewhere in the region. I agree that it is probably not on the battlefield itself, maybe at Canak or Gelibolu? Sadly no writing on the reverse but I'll check again in case there is a photographers studio address or similar.

thanks

Very nice picture Steve
I agree that it is probably not on the battlefield itself, maybe at Canak or Gelibolu?
Where was 5th Army's HQ at this time?

regards
Michael

I like that Michael, thinking outside of the box. I only have the Order of Battle for the Turkish Army for August 1915, which was in four zones - Krithia, Maidos, Chanak and Saros, but I understand that they remained in this region. HQ was in Gelibolu.

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Steve,

The 'Handbook of the Turkish Army 1916' (Intelligence Section, Cairo, revised Feb. 10, 1916) gives Angora as the base of the Vth Army Corps at that time;
caveat - "Present composition of Army Corps doubtful. Said to be composed of 10th, 11th, 12th, and 13th Divisions
see page 171
I'm not absolutely sure exactly where Angora is; if anyone else can help please?

regards
Michael

V. Army Corps or 5. Army? Was V. Army Corps in the area at that time?

Bob

Angora was the old name for Ankara I think.

I think it translates to 5th Army, which would make sense if it was Gelibolu.

Angora = Ankara; yes, that rings a bell, Steve

the commander was Feizi Bey, possibly the same man (Fezi Bey) who was a Colonel at Gallipoli [though dismissed by LvS at Suvla, the Turkish OH says this was a mistake, as does Mustafa Kemal in his memoirs (see Travers)]
Most of the regiments mentioned had service at Gallipoli, so taken together with the their GOC, they had reason to erect a monument at their new base HQ

It will be interesting to hear what out Turkish Pals have to say on this one

best regards
Michael

Yes, lets wait and see ... Thanks

Dear Steve,

a superb find and indeed an interesting picture but impossible to tell where and when it might have been taken. The background buildings do not allow me to give a sensible explanation.

I hope someone can give a clue, I can't ... +&%?+ !!!!

eric

Hi folks,

sorry for being only so randomly present in the forum but Pakistan is eating me up. The picture is great and new for me as well. I don't have a clou, where this memorial could have been but I guess - and I thing that Eric agrees with me - that unfortunately this memorial is gone. It is not unlikely that it was build on the high ground/plains around Krithia, which means that the houses in the background must be that village. Probably this monument was built in the south or south-west of Krithia if we consider that due to the shadows the three soldiers looking to the south. The two pillars on the background could be part of a fence around a cemetary - however, probably some old people in Krithia might know something about it. It's your turn again Eric...:-))))
Another argument for this is, that German soldiers had been posted on the peninsula until October 1918. This picture was taken earliest in summer 1916 - most probably later in summer 1917 or 1918 because of the weed, which wouldn't been there direct after the building of the monument. The German soldiers lived in a camp on Kilia Tepe and were running some observations posts along the western and northern coastline as well supported the Turkish artillery and Krithia was in their area of responsibility.

Anyway - still many speculations but a wonderful picture - thank you very much
Klaus

personally i think it is not ON the battlefields :

1. It is dedicated to the 5th Army so it is a more general monument.
2. the houses behind look like an estate rather than part of a village. There were rich people in but Gelibolu and Çanakkale who would have such estates /farmhouses outside the city.

Could it have been on a main road somewhere ?? There was not much "battlefield tourism" in 1917 I suspect but such a monument along the main road could be used as a moral booster for anybody (civilians & military) passing by ...

eric

i said i couldn't give a sensible explanation !!! Just guesswork