There is a past discussion on the site about this but I am hoping someone may be able to help me with a specific inquiry.

Is there a record of the weather on the Somme for the period June through September 1916?

'The Somme' is a bit general. The specific locations include Pozieres, Mouquet Farm, Contalmaison, Courcelette and Flers. it seems most unlikely that the weather conditions for these places would have been recorded but any information that would lead me to greater detail than I currently have would be appreciated.

The only source I have Is Chris McCarthy's 'The Somme: a Day-by-day Account'. As far as I can tell, there is no source for the weather information given in this work.

Thanks,

Michael

Hello Michael

I don't know of any collated sources other than Chris McCarthy's book, but there should be references in the Official History, Military Operations, France & Flanders, 1916 Volumes I and II, where the actions at the places you mention are described. Individual unit War Diaries should also mention it.

There was a Meterorological Section at GHQ: have you tried looking to see if it has a War Diary?

Failing that, you might try the Met Office in London. They have details going back to that period for the UK, and may have similar figures for Western Europe, or they may know where they can be found.

Ron

You could try contacting Chris McCarthy at the IWM and ask him what his source was.

Hi Michael

There is a website I've used called 'Chronology of the Battle of The Somme' - it's a free website so I hope I'm OK posting the link http://www.ramsdale.org/timeline.htm (I'm a newbie to this site). Basically it's a very brief summary of General Rawlinson's war diary and gives, amongst other things, an account day by day of the weather conditions on the Somme. I think the Rawlinson diary must be where McCarthy sourced his information as it's very similar; he doesn't mention it in the bibliography to 'The Somme: The Day By Day Account' but he does mention 'When The Barrage Lifts' by G. Gliddon and that author used Rawlinson as his primary resource.

Hope this is useful,

Teresa

thank you very much for that, teresa, it answers a question I was about to ask!!

LST_164

Thank you all for your suggestions.

By the way Teresa, I did turn McCarthy's book upside down and shook it looking for that reference and I think you have solved the mystery of its origin.

I shall start digging.

Michael

Michael - if you find it I would be very interested!
I started a thread a year or so ago asking a similar question
I am looking for weekly or even monthly weather summaries for the Western Front and so far have been unable to find them
I have the Day By Day Somme book (and Gliddon) but I too was unable to find the source of the Met reports.
there was (I think) an attempt made by a forum pal to contact the author but he was away at the time so it came to naught.
I have the official histories too - and as far as I can see although weather conditions are mentioned there is no systematic reporting (I will now go and double check)
Actually what I really need for an immediate project is weather conditions from April 1917 to Nov 1918
If you turn a source up please post it here (pretty please...)
Thanks
Chris

Chris,

Yes, of course.

I have a feeling however that Teresa's lead on McCarthy's use of the Rawlinson diary as the source will be as far as I will get. I suspect that will be the start and end of a very short citation chain.

I will be trying to get to the NLA and AWM in Canberra for August. If there is anything there, I will let you know.

I am assuming you refer to the British Official Histories. If that is the case, the same go for ours. All the Western Front ground war material was written by Charles Bean. His accounts are incredibly detailed on just about everything except the weather.

Still, someone apart from Rawlinson must have kept a record.

Michael

HI, have you thought about checking the Royal Flying Corps material and Rayleigh and Jones 's Official History "War In the Air", and the Air Force Communiques?

I will try and look later tonight.

Also ask in the Air section of the forum.

I am not sure if the following will be of any help:-
www.rmets.org/pdf/hist04.pdf
www.meteohistory.org/2004polling_preprints/docs/abstracts/kington_abstract.pdf

I just checked "War in The Air Volume II", it does have Meteorological appertaining to specific places and dates in the narrative. It even describes a snow storm in may during the build up to the Somme offensive. You have to read the narrative. it also states when aircraft can't fly due to bad weather.

Are the squadron diaries extant?

Does Jack Sheldon know anything from the German side.

Thank you for the additional follow-ups.

What a remarkable collection of talents out there.

The purpose of the inquiry is to develop some understanding of the immediate conditions encountered by one Australian.

I have posted this as a new topic and in so doing, trust I have not over-complicated things.

Michael

Hi, came onto this late! I am currently in the (slow) process of collating a day-by-day weather summary for Pozieres and Mouquet Farm in 1916. I came across a lot of meteorological information in various war diaries during an information lift at the AWM earlier in the year and am now working my way through it, waiting to come across the information again! Are you still interested? If you are, let me know and I can give you the information when it comes to hand. The Australian Official History makes mention of weather a few times for the period 1 July to 30 September 1916, namely that 16 and 17 July were rainy and foggy, 24 July was fine and sunny and there was rain overnight and thunder and "rain in sheets" on 29 August.

Did Bean in the WW1 history ever mention weather. I cant remember but the war history is readily accessable - on line - at the AWM
web site.
David

As I recall Army and Corps war diaries tend to have weather reports. There is another source giving daily rainfall, wind speed, wind direction, low and high temp and, I think, humidity, which I have somewhere for May, June and July. I will look for it and report back the source.

...erm, was my previous post invisible?

Another late comer to this thread. The following essay looks at Third Ypres, but may provide some useful info, I certainly found it very interesting when I first read it. It talks about the establishment of the Royal Engineers Meteorological Section under a chap called Ernest Gold and one of the footnotes says his monthly weather reports are among the GHQ war diary files at Kew.

Hussey, J.‘The Flanders Battleground and the Weather in 1917’, in P. Liddle, ed., Passchendaele in Perspective: The Third Battle of Ypres (ISBN: 0850525888).

Regards
Pen