Why do they do it!

I visited the Irish Cross with several Irish guests yesterday and for the second time this year already, we found the Memorial had been vandalised.

2 months ago the Cross was graffitied. Not content with that, beer bottles were smashed against it covering the base with broken glass.

This time, several wreaths had been set on fire and the burning plastic has badly damaged the stonework itself. We removed much broken glass, bottle tops and beer cans and did the best we could. The CWGC have been informed and hopefully this new damage can be put right. So sad!

Chris.

Chris that is appalling news, can you post a photo as I am not fully aware of the cross that you are referring to.

Thanks
Norman

Its a sad fact that this kind of mindless vandalism is a sign of the times we live in.


Peter

I think Chris is referring to this one: http://www.1914-1918.net/rmf.htm

Chris Baker, very many thanks for the info. Having now seen the excellent memorial it makes the stupid and mindless vandalism even worse. I hope the authorities catch the scum and make them pay dearly for their stupidity.

Regards
Norman

It seems quite a pointed thing to do, to burn the wreaths. Might this be a misguided reply to the treatment of the Romanians? Not that that excuses anything.

Hugh

It seems there are many idiots around. When I was in Ieper last year my girlfriend and I caught two young men (early 20's) urinating on names on the Menin Gate. When I stopped and asked them what they thought they were doing they answered "peeing on your memorial".

They seemed to think it was rather a jolly game to see how many names they could cover, and how high they could reach. After several more words they wandered off laughing finding it all quite amusing.

Jonathan

Thank you Chris. That is indeed the Memorial that was damaged.

I'm at a loss on why they do this type of thing. Is it planned to get a reaction? Maybe they don't even understand why they are doing it themselves! I suppose Ieper today, is no different than anywhere else. As I said before, this is so sad!

Not sure about this one, but I have just been told that the Dancox Memorial has been wrecked also. Can anyone verify this please?

Ref the urinating over the Menin Gate Name panels, this was becoming quite common up to a few months ago by a group of youths. I think the police jumped on this lot big time as I havn't seen them hanging about the Memorial recently. We will see!

Might just take an evening drive out there with the camera and check it out.

Its the kids, they finished exams and school this week so they go out and get drunk anywhere they can, a lot go to the fish market others go to the GB supermarket across from the cathedral buy cases of beer (drinking age here is 14) and get drunk in the grounds, they then set alight to the reefs etc, they now that no one will see them or that the police will do anything about it either. The situation here in town is a joke in regards to policing, as they have lss powers than a bus conducter, basically the teenagers do what they want, fact !!
The town will not do anything about it until its too late, it has been getting worse over the 5 years weve been here and it does not look like changing, it really is a shambles ! The authorities will just not listen it's a joke.

sorry for the bad news, but welcome to the new ypres.

Very sad to read about all of this. When I was a teenager, one of my friends urinated on a local gravestone and I was mad at him and punched him around till he gave up. Wish someone was there to do the same thing.

Well I couldn't get over and check out the Dancox Memorial as I had to work but I did check out the Irish Cross tonight and the CWGC have indeed moved swiftly. The damaged stonework has been grinded smooth and the wreckage and mess has been cleared away. That's the best I fear we will get but it's a start. Thanks to the CWGC for their swift repair work.

Paciv1 raises some good points about Ieper of today but it was always going to happen. The International youth of today are the same everywhere. Most good, BUT some intent on destroying whatever they can and making many peoples lives a misery. I know from talking to some of my Flemish friends children here, that they know of a pretty large group of teenagers, many of them girls here who go out " Brit bating" as they call it. I can live with them letting off their mobiles under the Menin Gate Memorial during the ceremony and I can live with them revving up their scooters as they career past the crowd but smashing up our war memorials, that is somthing else!

It's a long summer break, lets hope they calm down and lets hope the town reacts accordingly to the few who lets every decent youngster down!

I think you're too negative, Chris. I was late back in Ieper on the train the other day, and ended up talking to the young drug dealers and clients in the bike shed by the station (that's a tip for you, by the way). They were really quite charming, unlike the pond life coughed out by the British school system.

If there was a British town filled with memorials to some foreign nation, how would those memorials fare? Somewhat worse, I'd say.

Hugh

Hugh, I take it that your post is meant to be what we call Ironic?.

Norman

Well done Chris for bringing this to the attention of the CWGC, and well done to them for moving so quickly to clean the cross up.

Peter

sad very sad, minority acts like this ruin it for the majority of pleasant well behaved that are everywhere, i'm up for a bit of brit baiting, next time i'm in ieper late at night, i'll make myself available for some, they might just wish they had stayed at home that night, and as for the toe rags urinating on the menin gate i have the answer for them also.
i will keep an eye out next time in town.

If I went to check it out, it wouldn't be a camera I took with me

Neil

At least the CWGC acted very quickly indeed and the Memorial has been repaired. Lets hope it doesn't happen again.

Best wishes to all.

Chris.

I was in Ypres the other night and saw no issues at Menin Gate, sadly vandalism is a world wide problem caused by a minority of people, but at least there are many visitors to sites in Ypres and beyond who may report these acts whilst they are occurring or at least ensure quick reporting to CWGC etc to address the problems.

Perhaps I am naive but I am stunned and shaken by these revelations - the more so because, as a Cold War veteran who saw active service and who lost an uncle in the Great War and cousins in the concentration camps of Nazi Germany, I am now in an age and disability category that sensibly should prevent me from reacting as my heart tells me I should. What can we do? Antony

Vandalism is a sad thing. Perhaps the best thing is to do is keep up the usual minimalisation protocols, clean-up-afterwards and then somehow see past it.

People who defile walls, graves, memorials, train stations, anything, are sending a message about themselves and their own probable low self esteem. They are probably drunk or drugged at the time. Vandalism walks hand-in-hand with co-morbidity, the condition of having mental health and substance abuse issues.

This might explain things a bit. Unfortunately, it does not help things.

Still, as I see it, vandalism will never get in the way of my regard for the people that these graves, memorials and suchlike represent. No vandal can deface that.

Michael

Chris,
Very saddened to see that this has happened twice this year, certainly does not bode well. Hats off to the CWGC for getting it cleaned up as soon as possible.
Sign of the times unfortunately everywhere, but this does seem to be a growing problem with regard to memorials.

Andy

prevention is better than cure, a very strong message needs to be got over to the culprits, drunk, drugged or whatever, no excuse, they do it in my prescence they will get the message.

Sickening to hear what happened to that memorial. One can only hope it won't happen again

Stephen

Can't say that I have ever heard or seen any of the locals doing anything other than showing respect towards the Menin Gate, some of the school coach trips can be annoying but they would appear to be from all Nations, including Great Britain.

There are cameras under the gate so I would not worry too much about any extremely bad behaviour, one bloke put a wreath around his dogs neck and walked him home with it on needless to say the Police paid him a visit.

I think that the local youth are perhaps being painted in a rather unwarranted light, I come from Lewisham in London now that is a war zone, the kids I have seen seem to be polite, nice kids.


Personally I do not go under the gate during the season, I prefer the more quiet times, however I am at the Menin Gate every other night so I kind of see what is going on, perhaps it is something I have missed.

What I do find extremely annoying is the people who choose to leave the Poppy Wreath boxes under the gate, I mean if they remember soo much why is it such a hard task to find a bin and not litter the Memorial?

Without doubt! The majority of the youth are very much law abiding and respectful. It is always such a shame when the minority carry out some of these appalling acts and as Soren says, all Countries have them.

Wreath around the dogs neck and walked home!! Gordon Bennett. From the front, the dog must have looked like a Royal British Legion badge!

We live in strange times.

I have seen only one occasion local youths vandalizing the 16th Irish cross poppy wreaths in Ypres but that is not to say tourists do not engage in this activity. I challenged them and they were fast on their heels. If you see the location of the Cross it does not surprise me that this happens as it is a quite and isolated area. Maybe CCTV should be installed if this is a continuing problem.


Regards,

Phil

Funnily enough Soren I was in Lewisham yesterday - perfectly agree with you, know where I would rather be out and about after sunset and it's not SE13. Generally agree with you about the local youths of Ieper seem nice and polite - that's not to say there is the odd urchin around

In a way, that makes it worse. Lewisham and other areas of deprivation mean poverty, drugs, crime and vandalism. Ieper is in general a wealthy, growing place. It does not have the sort of run-down, derelict buildings that Britain's inner cities do. I can understand acts of vandalism taking place in Lewisham far more than I can in clean, booming Ieper.

Chris,

What is sad, but it is going off topic really, there are far worse areas in London than Lewisham, I don't perceive it as an area of deprivation. There are probably some (and I'm not one of them) that would compare Ieper and Lewisham, Lewisham could be considered quite vibrant and upcoming, plenty of building work and plenty of work (relatively speaking in today's climate)

You might guess I was not specifically referring to Lewisham, just using it as a (bad) example.

Hi Steve,

I love Lewisham and England however would not move back.

I referred to Lewisham, because I know the area and can relate it to my own experiences, when you get on a bus here, you can, everyone waits in turn, no one steams on, I can go over the the Gate at 3am in the morning without a thought about security an impossibility in Lewisham.

There is a Chav element ( having scraped myself up from a council estate I speak with some local authority) at the bar next door to my studio, sometimes the music is a little louder than I might like however I live with it as I dimly remember my own youth & forgive them.

There are idiots in any society & era / area

idiots are in all societies.
War Memorial Gardens (Islandbridge) Vandelised in Dublin last week
What a shame

The positive thing about all of this is the actions of the CWGC. On both occasions their stone masons attended within 24 hours and the damaged stonework had been repaired and the debris removed. They really are an inspiration. Thank you CWGC!

Talking about living with noise, I to have accepted it. My neighbors snoring was waking me up constantly. Even 2 foot thick walls could not hide the racket so in a fit of rage, I leapt out of bed, stood on the dog! Fell into the wall and split my lip! That was a lesson. He still snores, the dog sleeps out on the landing and Ihave an extra pillow over my head. Yep, we learn to live...

Chris.

If its any consolation you might view the vandalised statue below!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/irelan...4250318117.html

wig

Seems no one can escape the modern youth and there antics and the curse of drink.

Dan

From what I have experienced over the years in Ieper there is more than drink involved in that not so sleepy Belgian town.

We have the same probelm here in Canada, a few years ago durring the Canada day festivals
some young punks were photographed "pissing"on the Unknown soldiers grave site.
See article below.....scum bags!

http://www.garth.ca/weblog/2006/07/03/the-...nal-war-urinal/

Roger,

I remember this incident. The photo was in every major paper across the country. But am I wrong in thinking the guy in the photo was ultimately identified, arrested and punished? I may be wrong.

peter

Perhaps the Jester should throw something other than cuddly stuffed cats from the belfry?

Cheers,

Nigel

Balance the acts of the morons with the numbers of young people - of all races - who visit the Menin Gate to pay their respects. This is often part of an organised school battlefields tour, and I know that youthful members of my own family have come back as wiser and better people.

As for the morons, they - and their parents - should be made to attent the Last Post ceremony every night for a month, all wearing suitably inscribed dayglo jackets.

Ian

Now what was that quote from Lock Stock and 2 Smoking Barrels?
Ah yes "... And a good kicking never hurt anyone. If you know what I mean."

Robin

Some yobs who had the gall to kick wreaths at our local war memorial were given a lesson last year by some public-spirited folks. The scum had just finished trashing the churchyard with beer cans and faeces - yes one actually defiled a grave in this manner - before they had a go at the memorial. They were chased and a few were caught and given a severe beating. It was pretty brutal I can tell you. The plod turned a blind eye as these creatures were well-known to them as the "ASBO brigade". Haven't seen them since.

Edit: I spoke too soon. They trashed the churchyard again last night.