Hello,

I'm doing a map to follow the footsteps of the Australian 8th light Horse and I can't find the exact location of Tel Es Sheria on November 7 1917.

If anyone could help me.

Thank in advance.



Olivier.

Olivier

This is from the OH maps disc produced by the Naval & Military Press



you may also find it useful to download The Advance of the Egyptian Expeditionary Force etc from the archive website here http://www.archive.org/details/briefrecordofadv00grearich
see pages 140 & 141 for details & map of 7th Nov 1917

regards
Michael

Here's an enlargement of the above OH map

3rd ALH Brigade are bottom left, the tel is top right

Thank a lot, this will help me a lot.

Regards.
Olivier.

Michael

Is the 378th Siege Battery marked on your map just behind the 60th Div?
I can't quite make it out at this resolution, but it's of great interest because
that's where my grandfather was and this will be the first precise location I've found.

It was just about the time that they'd been without water for three days.

Regards
Jef

Well spotted Jef
This may be of a little more help



This is also their only mention in the OH
"The 74th Division, which was to direct, had as objective the line of works east of the railway, after which it was to cover the right of the 60th Division, seize the high ground north of Tell esh Sheria, and protect the water supply. The 60th Division and one brigade of the 10th were then to cross the railway and capture the trenches west of it to a depth of two miles. The remaining brigades of the 10th Division were held in corps reserve. The heavy artillery consisted of the 15th and 181st Heavy Batteries, the 378th, 383rd and 440th Seige Batteries, under the orders of Br-General A H Short, GOC. RA. XX Corps."

XX Corps Order No. 13 (5th Nov 1917, issued 8.30 am) does not tell us very much either, but simply says in Item 5
"The Heavy Artillery Group, less 1 60-pdr. battery attached to 53rd Division, will move into positions north of the Gaza-Beersheba road to support the attack under the orders of the GOC RA XX Corps, who will allot objectives to the Group Commander."

Good luck
Michael

Many thanks for the maps and information Michael - very much appreciated.

I've got a significant amount of information on the 378th SB now and, like Olivier
and the ALH, I'm trying to plot their route through the campaign.

I'll have to figure out shortly, how to post it on the Long Long Trail site.

Warm regards

Jef

Jef

Just a quick one - in the map references for the 378th SB, which map did they use?

The published map for that area at the time was Tel esh Sheria 1:40,000 (August 1917) or the Sinai 1:250,000 map which also covered the region.

Cheers

Bill

Sorry Bill, I don't know which map they used - though I would like to, it's proving quite a task to figure out where they were sometimes.

I just checked the battery diary and there is a somewhat hazy pencilled note scribbled on 17th Feb 1918 that appears to say "Reference Map, Palestine 1/63360" which my calculator tells me is one inch to the mile. That just seems to complicate things because it doesn't fit either of the scales you quote. Any ideas?

Cheers

jef

I located Tel Es Sheria around here google map on the ? icon.

I think that I'm wrong ?

I located Tel Es Sheria around here google map on the ? icon.
I think that I'm wrong ?

Look at the satellite version of the map and enlarge it. Then pay attention to the twists and turns of the wadi, and to where it forks.
I would say that Tel esh Shira was about three miles to the east of where you show the question mark
Where you show the question mark now is too close to where the Hureira Redoubt and the Rushdi System were

regards
Michael

Jef

Thanks for that mate. I know which map they used now.

My mistake too - Palestine 1:125,000

This was a general map issued to most units.

They maps are too vague once they leave the rail line.

Cheers

Bill

Bill
I guess there must have been a series of maps to cover the country at 1"/mile. Do you know what the title is? or how I might get copies?
It would be useful to identify where map references in the battery diary, like "K 23 a 1.6.", actually were.
All the best
Jef

As I understand it, the maps used by the EEF were based on the Palestine Exploration Fund maps drawn by Claude Conder and Horatio Kitchener on the Survey of Western Palestine (1872–1878) see the PEF web-site here http://www.pef.org.uk/maps/
These maps can be seen in detail on this web-site here http://www.jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/maps/pal/htm...al002368494.htm
E.g: for Tel esh Sharia look at Map No. XXIV (if you don't have the MrSid plugin then click on the 'Large image' version of Map No. XXIV)
This is the corner of interest to this thread

Compare with post No.2 above

It seems that copies of the 1918 version of the 1:63360 maps by the War Office, General Staff, can be obtained (but I have not tried this yet)
see here

regards
Michael