Hello

Can anyone please tell me what U boat damaged Q 25 on 30 March 1917 or any of the circumstances. Six British crewmen were killed.

Thank you in advance.

All best

don

Is this a later event?

Lady Patricia ( Paxton, Q.25, 1917 Sunk by U46, 1917. Tosca, Sverige)

Oh yes - LADY PATRICIA, special service ship/Q-ship, lost May 20, 1917, Atlantic

Sorry. As you were.

Details here;

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/l...php/t85465.html

Thanks IPT for your notes.

I was looking for an incident on 30 March, some six weeks before her loss.

All best

don

Don,

There were a number of Q-ship incidents on March 30, 1917.

Q 36 = Peveril = Puma was in action against UC 65, resulting in a number of British casualties.

Q 25 = Paxton = Lady Patricia was action against U 57. I wasn't aware that this one resulted in British casualties.

One of the UB boats, IIRC UB 32 but I'd have to double check to be sure, was also in a Q-ship action in the Channel as well.

Best wishes,
Michael

Hello Michael

Here are the dead in Q 7, Q 25 and Q 36 on 30 March 1917

6154 DUNN CORNELIUS J. FIREMAN, Mercantile Marine Reserve 886630 LADY PATRICIA (Q 25) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
6892 FIDO JAMES GREASER, Mercantile Marine Reserve 424947 LADY PATRICIA (Q 25) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
9317 HERSEE ARTHUR G. OFFICER'S STEWARD 2c L 8561 (Dev) LADY PATRICIA (Q 25) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
13792 MILLER RUSSEL E. TRIMMER, Mercantile Marine Reserve 667142 LADY PATRICIA (Q 25) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
17122 ROSS ANDREW S. GREASER, Mercantile Marine Reserve 854015 LADY PATRICIA (Q 25) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
21928 WRIGHT ERNEST R. OFFICER'S STEWARD 3c L 8368 (Po) LADY PATRICIA (Q 25) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION

21432 WILLIAMS WALTER SHIPWRIGHT 1c 342460 (Dev) PENSHURST (Q 7) 30-Mar-17 DROWNED

3874 CAWLEY GEORGE R. OFFICER'S STEWARD 3c L 6572 (Po) PEVERIL (Q 36) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
4229 CLARKE JAMES PAINTER 2c M 13867 (Po) PEVERIL (Q 36) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
5107 CROFT THOMAS C. SIGNALMAN, RNVR WALES Z 1119 PEVERIL (Q 36) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
6524 EMERSON FRANCIS A.B. J 9645 (Po) PEVERIL (Q 36) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
6998 FITZGERALD EDWARD FIREMAN, Mercantile Marine Reserve 740973 PEVERIL (Q 36) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
12884 MASON EDWIN V. A.B. 227918 (Po) PEVERIL (Q 36) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
15937 PORTAS JOSEPH H.C. O.S. J 27954 (Po) PEVERIL (Q 36) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
18190 SMALLMAN FREDERICK GREASER, Mercantile Marine Reserve 892904 PEVERIL (Q 36) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION
21212 WHOLEY JOHN A.B. J 39253 (Po) PEVERIL (Q 36) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION

All best

don

Don,

Thanks. Had a look at U 57's KTB -- she did claimed a hit from her 105mm gun on the Q-ship at 5000 meters, which could account for the casualties.

Will add the ation into the uboat.net ship hit database and have another look at UB 32's KTB as well.

Best wishes,
Michael

Many thanks, Michael.

All best

don

What could this mean?


HERSEE, ARTHUR GEORGE
Initials: A G
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Officer's Steward 2nd Class
Regiment/Service: Royal Navy
Unit Text: H.M.S. "Q25."
Age: 30
Date of Death: 30/03/1917
Service No: L/8561
Additional information: Son of Alice Martin Hersee, of 36, Sturdee Avenue, Gillingham, Kent, and the late George Hersee. Born at Warning Camp, Arundel, Sussex. Shot while carrying out a dangerous duty for the safety of his comrades.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 23.
Memorial: PLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL

DON, Micheal, ITP, see following Awards to crew of Q25 / Lady Patricia.
One later lost 20 May, 1917 & one POW on that date.

HEWITT George O Prisoner of War 20.05.17 Lt.Cdr. RN 83P069 Q.25
Vice Admiral Queenstown 23.05.17 Gazetted
Actions with German Submarines 16.03.17 Mentioned in Despatches
Engaged a German submarine on the 30th March, 1917, and slightly damaged her.

ROBERTS Robert N/E Lt. RNR 83P069 Q.25
Vice Admiral Queenstown 23.05.17 Gazetted
Actions with German Submarines 16.03.17 Mentioned in Despatches
Engaged a German submarine on the 30th March, 1917, and slightly damaged her.
He was in the ship on the above occasion went into the boat whilst foul of propeller and was largely responsible for the rescue of the men from her, under dangerous circumstances.

ROBINSON Samuel Missing 20.05.17 S/Lt. RNR 83P069 Q.25
Vice Admiral Queenstown 23.05.17 Gazetted
Actions with German Submarines 16.03.17 Mentioned in Despatches
Engaged a German submarine on the 30th March, 1917, and slightly damaged her.
He was in the ship on the above occasion went into the boat whilst foul of propeller and was largely responsible for the rescue of the men from her, under dangerous circumstances.

So POW probably picked up by the U-boat ??!!

Sadsac

Sadsac/Don,

Thanks -- I think the award citations gets at is something that I thought might be the case. Seems that one of the hazards of the Q-ship routine involved putting out the boats, especially while under fire in heavy weather.

U 57 didn't pick up any prisoners. In fact, the gunnery action happened at ranges of 5,000 to 7,000 meters. The German submarine missed with a torpedo fired while submerged, then went out to 5,000 meters, surfaced, and open fired with the 105mm gun. Lady Patricia doesn't return fire until after taking a shell hit. As the U-boat thought the Q-ship only had a small caliber gun, she then submerged and went out to 7,000 meters, resurfaced and resumed fire. Lady Patricia's fire was getting close to the U-boat and perceived to from a larger caliber gun, so U 57 just dived and left the scene. U 57 was not damaged in the action.

U 57's KTB does not mention a boat being dropped by the Q-ship. It's a bit hard to make out, but Spindler wrote (postwar) in a margain of the KTB that 6 dead in the release of a boat from the Q-ship. That would be consistant with "He was in the ship on the above occasion went into the boat whilst foul of propeller and was largely responsible for the rescue of the men from her, under dangerous circumstances."

When Lady Patricia was sunk on U 46 in May 20, 1917, Lt. Commander George Hewett, who was Lady Patricia’s commanding officer, and Sub-Lieutenant J W Johnson were taken prisoner.

In the UC 65/ Peveril (= Q36) action apparently some of the casualties also involved a boat handling issue. In any case, the records on that one were sealed for 75 years. Oliver, Simon, and I only attributed it out last year...

The Penshurst (Q7) action on March 30, 1917 was against UB 32. The U-boat claimed a pair of (88mm) shell hits and submereged when a destroyer appeared. She reported high winds (wind state 7) and couldn't fire a torpedo because of the weather conditions.

Best wishes,
Michael

Hello Michael

Great information. Thank you very much.

All best

don

It may be of interest to visit the following link. George Cawley is buried in Jersey, but it is the manner of his "arrival onshore" that is of particular note.

http://www.greatwarci.net/navy/fow/fow1.htm

I assume that Edwin Mason was killed onboard Q36 and was quietly buried at home, while the other seven men perished by either falling into the sea when the lifeboat was launched or died in the lifeboat until George was the only one left.

It would be interesting to hear more detail regarding the Q36 v UC65 engagement!

Regards
Barrie

RE 17122 ROSS ANDREW S. GREASER, Mercantile Marine Reserve 854015 LADY PATRICIA (Q 25) 30-Mar-17 SUBMARINE ACTION

Thank you to all who posted. Very interested to read all the information about Q25 as Andrew was my Great-Uncle and I've been trying to find out exactly how he died. Does anyone know if this would be recorded somewhere?