The photo below I believe looks across the Wadi Ghuzzie [Ghuzze Ghuzzy] towards tel el Fara, Summer 1917.
Can anyone confirm my identification
If so is possible to identify the location from which the picture was taken?
Finally is that a heliograph in the foreground
The photo comes from the album of Sergt Major WE Bond B (Reading) Sqdn Berks Yeomanry.
regards
Andrew
Full Version: Tel el Fara
Great War Forum > The War On Other Fronts > Away From The Western Front > Middle East & North Africa
Andrew, yes it's a heliograph, maybe belonging to the 6th Mounted BDE's Signal troop.
The 1/1 Berks Yeomanry were a part of the 6th Mounted Brigade, commanded by Brig-Gen Pitt. The 6th was a part of the Imperial Mounted Div (MAJGEN Hodgson), and that Div was part of the Desert Mounted Column (LTGEN Chetwode) to Aug 1917. GEN Allenby re-org this into the Desert Mounted Corps (LTGEN Chauvel), post Aug 1917, and the 6th came part of the Yeomanry Mtd Div (GOC MAJGEN Sir G Barrow).
So it depends on where these units were in 1917.
l will have a look and see if l have that info, unless someone else can---
cheers
RDC
The 1/1 Berks Yeomanry were a part of the 6th Mounted Brigade, commanded by Brig-Gen Pitt. The 6th was a part of the Imperial Mounted Div (MAJGEN Hodgson), and that Div was part of the Desert Mounted Column (LTGEN Chetwode) to Aug 1917. GEN Allenby re-org this into the Desert Mounted Corps (LTGEN Chauvel), post Aug 1917, and the 6th came part of the Yeomanry Mtd Div (GOC MAJGEN Sir G Barrow).
So it depends on where these units were in 1917.
l will have a look and see if l have that info, unless someone else can---
cheers
RDC
Andrew
If it is the Wadi Ghuzzie, then it is around the time of the attacks on Gaza by the 6th Mtd Bde, Yeomanry Div. Wadi was a wide dry (except twice a year when it drained the water from the Judean Hills), feature that supplies were moved along it to conceal them from enemy observation prior to the attacks. By reading a description it looks very much like it but l can't confirm.
from 'Victory in Palestine'
"At Shellal the stony bed of the wadi Ghuzze rests between high mud
banks which have been cut into fantastic shapes by the rushing waters
descending from the southern extremities of the Judean range of hills
during the winter rains. In the summer months, when the remainder
of the wadi bed is dry, there are bubbling springs of good water at
Shellal, and these have probably been continuously flowing for many
centuries, for close above the spot where the water issues Anzac
cavalry discovered a beautiful remnant of the mosaic flooring of an
ancient Christian church, which, raised on a hundred-feet mound, was
doubtless the centre of a colony of Christians, hundreds of years
before Crusaders were attracted to the Holy Land. Our engineers
harnessed that precious flow. A dam was put across the wadi bed and at
least a million gallons of crystal water were held up by it,
whilst the overflow went into shallow pools fringed with grass (a
delightfully refreshing sight in that arid country) from which horses
were watered. Pumping sets were installed at the reservoir and pipes
were laid towards Karm, and from these the Camel Transport Corps were
to fill fanatis--eight to twelve gallon tanks--for carriage of water
to troops on the move.
sorry can't help confirm the picture.
RDC
If it is the Wadi Ghuzzie, then it is around the time of the attacks on Gaza by the 6th Mtd Bde, Yeomanry Div. Wadi was a wide dry (except twice a year when it drained the water from the Judean Hills), feature that supplies were moved along it to conceal them from enemy observation prior to the attacks. By reading a description it looks very much like it but l can't confirm.
from 'Victory in Palestine'
"At Shellal the stony bed of the wadi Ghuzze rests between high mud
banks which have been cut into fantastic shapes by the rushing waters
descending from the southern extremities of the Judean range of hills
during the winter rains. In the summer months, when the remainder
of the wadi bed is dry, there are bubbling springs of good water at
Shellal, and these have probably been continuously flowing for many
centuries, for close above the spot where the water issues Anzac
cavalry discovered a beautiful remnant of the mosaic flooring of an
ancient Christian church, which, raised on a hundred-feet mound, was
doubtless the centre of a colony of Christians, hundreds of years
before Crusaders were attracted to the Holy Land. Our engineers
harnessed that precious flow. A dam was put across the wadi bed and at
least a million gallons of crystal water were held up by it,
whilst the overflow went into shallow pools fringed with grass (a
delightfully refreshing sight in that arid country) from which horses
were watered. Pumping sets were installed at the reservoir and pipes
were laid towards Karm, and from these the Camel Transport Corps were
to fill fanatis--eight to twelve gallon tanks--for carriage of water
to troops on the move.
sorry can't help confirm the picture.
RDC
QUOTE (dekenai @ Sep 4 2009, 10:38 PM) 
Andrew
If it is the Wadi Ghuzzie, then it is around the time of the attacks on Gaza by the 6th Mtd Bde, Yeomanry Div. Wadi was a wide dry (except twice a year when it drained the water from the Judean Hills), feature that supplies were moved along it to conceal them from enemy observation prior to the attacks. By reading a description it looks very much like it but l can't confirm.
from 'Victory in Palestine'
"At Shellal the stony bed of the wadi Ghuzze rests between high mud
banks which have been cut into fantastic shapes by the rushing waters
descending from the southern extremities of the Judean range of hills
during the winter rains. In the summer months, when the remainder
of the wadi bed is dry, there are bubbling springs of good water at
Shellal, and these have probably been continuously flowing for many
centuries, for close above the spot where the water issues Anzac
cavalry discovered a beautiful remnant of the mosaic flooring of an
ancient Christian church, which, raised on a hundred-feet mound, was
doubtless the centre of a colony of Christians, hundreds of years
before Crusaders were attracted to the Holy Land. Our engineers
harnessed that precious flow. A dam was put across the wadi bed and at
least a million gallons of crystal water were held up by it,
whilst the overflow went into shallow pools fringed with grass (a
delightfully refreshing sight in that arid country) from which horses
were watered. Pumping sets were installed at the reservoir and pipes
were laid towards Karm, and from these the Camel Transport Corps were
to fill fanatis--eight to twelve gallon tanks--for carriage of water
to troops on the move.
sorry can't help confirm the picture.
RDC
If it is the Wadi Ghuzzie, then it is around the time of the attacks on Gaza by the 6th Mtd Bde, Yeomanry Div. Wadi was a wide dry (except twice a year when it drained the water from the Judean Hills), feature that supplies were moved along it to conceal them from enemy observation prior to the attacks. By reading a description it looks very much like it but l can't confirm.
from 'Victory in Palestine'
"At Shellal the stony bed of the wadi Ghuzze rests between high mud
banks which have been cut into fantastic shapes by the rushing waters
descending from the southern extremities of the Judean range of hills
during the winter rains. In the summer months, when the remainder
of the wadi bed is dry, there are bubbling springs of good water at
Shellal, and these have probably been continuously flowing for many
centuries, for close above the spot where the water issues Anzac
cavalry discovered a beautiful remnant of the mosaic flooring of an
ancient Christian church, which, raised on a hundred-feet mound, was
doubtless the centre of a colony of Christians, hundreds of years
before Crusaders were attracted to the Holy Land. Our engineers
harnessed that precious flow. A dam was put across the wadi bed and at
least a million gallons of crystal water were held up by it,
whilst the overflow went into shallow pools fringed with grass (a
delightfully refreshing sight in that arid country) from which horses
were watered. Pumping sets were installed at the reservoir and pipes
were laid towards Karm, and from these the Camel Transport Corps were
to fill fanatis--eight to twelve gallon tanks--for carriage of water
to troops on the move.
sorry can't help confirm the picture.
RDC
Hi Dekenai
Thanks for you contribution. As often happens the maker of the photo album did not anotate this photograh with location or date. I am fairly certain this is Fara but would like some this forum's experts to verify this.
Andrew
Andrew
Interesting pic.
The best way to reach a conclusion is to compare the item in situ, and for that purpose, I have added a map segment from the 1:40,000 Gaza-Shellal map, 2nd edition, provisional copy. Although undated, it would appear to have been issued around about August 1917.
Click to view attachment
A comparison between the lineal geography of the map and the photograph gives the impression that they were drafted around similar area. While not conclusive, I would be inclined to agree with your original conclusion.
Cheers
Bill
Interesting pic.
The best way to reach a conclusion is to compare the item in situ, and for that purpose, I have added a map segment from the 1:40,000 Gaza-Shellal map, 2nd edition, provisional copy. Although undated, it would appear to have been issued around about August 1917.
Click to view attachment
A comparison between the lineal geography of the map and the photograph gives the impression that they were drafted around similar area. While not conclusive, I would be inclined to agree with your original conclusion.
Cheers
Bill
g'day Andrew,
quote from "The New Zealanders in Sinai and Palestine" LTCOL Powles,
"----there were two great 'Tels' on the Wadi Ghuzzeh about which nothing could be found. There were Tel el Jemmi, where the division crossed to make the first attack on Gaza, and Tel el Fara seven miles further south on the wadi where the Rafa-Beersheba road crosses. These two Tels stand up above the plain and can be seen for many miles on all sides. They are each flat on top with what were apparently once perpendicular sides. Both drop sheer down into the wadi bed, and Fara has been built up in ages gone by at the water line with huge masonary buttresses and courses of cut stone."
Richard
quote from "The New Zealanders in Sinai and Palestine" LTCOL Powles,
"----there were two great 'Tels' on the Wadi Ghuzzeh about which nothing could be found. There were Tel el Jemmi, where the division crossed to make the first attack on Gaza, and Tel el Fara seven miles further south on the wadi where the Rafa-Beersheba road crosses. These two Tels stand up above the plain and can be seen for many miles on all sides. They are each flat on top with what were apparently once perpendicular sides. Both drop sheer down into the wadi bed, and Fara has been built up in ages gone by at the water line with huge masonary buttresses and courses of cut stone."
Richard
Tel El Fara as seen from Wadi Ghuzze. The perspective suggests it was taken from a position a little to the right of that above:
Click to view attachment
AWM ID Number: B00972
David
Click to view attachment
AWM ID Number: B00972
David
Hi everybody
Thank you all for your expertise & knowledge. Sorry not to post for some time but have been very busy at work.
I went to the musuem last night to check the souce photo again which I now post untrimmed which is a little embarrassing for me as you will see !
regards
Andrew
Thank you all for your expertise & knowledge. Sorry not to post for some time but have been very busy at work.
I went to the musuem last night to check the souce photo again which I now post untrimmed which is a little embarrassing for me as you will see !
regards
Andrew
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