I had to weigh this one up a bit because strictly what I'm looking for here are any links, names of songs or anything else for that matter that may help me find out the kind of songs that men of a soldierly age would have sung in pubs both before and during the GW. I'm not overly interested in songs that were patriotic or even related to the war at all, but those songs that would have been known by men of that era but not necessarily of that era if that makes sense.

I'm particularly interested in the tradition of folk singers singing traditional songs and what they would have been? I'm sure the stereotype of the piano and the good old knees up doesn't do justice to the whole picture so anything that anybody could offer would be most appreciated.

Folk songs popular in London pre-war, even better...

It was the era of Cecil Sharp - you could try the website of the English Folk Dance and Song society/aka Cecil Sharp House as a good starting point. http://www.efdss.org/

Certainly time of a folksong revival in the classical music world. Vaughan Williams and George Butterworth knew each other and went out 'collecting' folk songs. Butterworth was later killed at the Somme.

Eirian

Thanks for that Eirian, much obliged.

Butterworth has a memorial at Pozieres. There was an unveiling ceremony there last month. They now have a song and dance society in the village to promote his works.
See; http
://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...worth+memorial
And listen to the Banks of Green Willow; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Q9dz1kse8
Regards
John

I imagine many Londoners would have had a good knowledge of the songs of the music hall. This site offers a few examples, some of which may well have been sung down the rub-a-dub to the strains of the old joanna, pre-war and in wartime:

http://www.trasksdad.com/MusicHall/MusicHall.html

You may get some ideas from the track listings here;

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:0BTsf...=clnk&gl=uk

Non war-related would surely include;
"Any Old Iron"
"Daddy Wouldn't Buy Me a Bow Wow"
"Knees Up Mother Brown"
"My Old Man's a Dustman"
"Nellie Dean"
"Underneath the Arches"
"Where Did You Get That Hat?"




inky pinky parlez vous,
IPT

Some of these are a bit 'out of time', IPT - I believe Lonnie wrote 'My Old Man's A Dustman' (in about 1959), and 'Underneath The Arches' was written by Flanagan and some other geezer in 1931.

This is indicative of the amount of research I put into my posts.

(I checked a few and they were 1890s so took a punt on the rest.....)



inky pinky etc

IPT

Abraham,

You ask for "Folk songs popular in London pre-war". Maybe I have a different perspective, but to me there is a difference between popular and folk song, the former to my mind having a definate author and the latter having grown from unidentifiable sources and passed through the generations. I've been to several folk club concerts, and thought I would be seeing Rambling Sid Rumpo types with open-toed footwear and straw bonnets. To my surprise, folk music is usually amplified nowadays, and written last week - but I digress.

If you mean popular songs then Oh you Beautiful Doll; Alexander's Ragtime Band; Get Out and Get Under (inspired by the new-fangled motor car) and Oh Oh Antonio were all widely sung pre-war.

And think of the music hall song melodies "adopted" with different words.

Hold your hand out naughty boy - keep your head down Alleyman

and many others.

Kate is spot-on with her observation. For most of us George Formby is WW2, but his dad's story may help to show the WW1 link with Music Hall and it roots in 'folk' music.

http://wwwgeorgeformby.co.uk/gf_senior/report.htm

Phil.

Excellent, thanks for all the replies.

Yes, sorry to confuse the genres there Kate it wasn't intentional. I think that's a very good definition of the distinction between the two and what I meant were folk songs that would have been well known, without the need for a definitive author; one of those songs that just gets passed down, that is perhaps traditional.

Excellent links too and that truly is a wonderful piece of music Ted. I know very little of either composer other than that they were very interested in folk and had a lot to do with the revival.

I've actually chosen the track that I will use as it defines the part of the story where it is sung. Goodbye Dolly Grey would have been played on the old Joanna I believe Jim, and is, I believe originally a Boer war era song; not exactly folk by a long shot, but some of the sentiments remind me of much of the folk I like.

Many thanks one and all.

I like this forum for folk music topics: Mudcat

A search brings up quite a few threads.

Look at British music-hall for the "popular music" of the day. A lot of the tunes of the First World War had their origins or were popularized in the music-hall. In the United States, it was vaudeville, and "song-pluggers" who often popularized the tunes.

There's been a significant body of work devoted to war-songs, but to get away from that, look at music-hall stuff in general.

Here are a few suggestions:

Davidson, Peter. Songs of the British Music Hall; Compiled and edited with a critical history of
the songs and their times. New York: Oak Publications, 1971.

Russell, Dave. Popular Music in England, 1840-1914. Kingston: McGill-Queen’s University
Press, 1987.

Senelick, Laurence, David F. Cheshire, and Ulrich Schneider. British Music-Hall, 1840-1923; A
Bibliography and Gudie to Sources, with a Supplement on European Msuic-Hall.
Archon Books, 1981.

Senelick, Laurence. “Politics as Entertainment: Victorian Music-Hall Songs.” Victorian Studies
19.2 (1975)149-180.

Schneider, Ulrich. Die Londoner Music Hall und ihre Songs, 1850-1920. Tübingen: Max
Niemeyer Verlag, 1984.