Hello

31st Division arrived in Egypt in December 1915 and left March 1916. H. Wylly in his York and Lancaster history on p233 says that 31st Division were the third division to leave Egypt for France and implies that this meant they were held in high regard as a unit. However, if they were the third of three to leave then it might be said that it doesn't indicate anything. I looked at :

http://www.1914-1918.net/palestine.htm

and it suggests that they were the second of two. 46th Division arrived and left in January 1916.

Can anyone help me clarify what Wylly meant, which other divisions he was referring to, etc?

Thanks
Pen

Pen,
It`s difficult to know what Everard Wyrall may or may not have implied without looking at the quote in context.Was it his comment or from elsewhere?.In a similar history involving other 31st Division battalions I could not find a similar reference either way and he always seems a bit sparse on sources.
As far I can make out the 31st in Egypt could have been considered to be still in training( or so I read somewhere).
The list on the forum web mentioned had a caveat ie had been engaged it battles there.The 1st Australian Div was in Egypt before Gallipoli ,then back to Egypt before going to the Western Front in perhaps March 1916.
I appeciate that the 1918 31st Div reference should read 1916.I am not sure that our Divisions had ratings published by someone similar to those for the 251 German Divisions( not necessarily deemed valid by some).It really doesnt matter too much, in my opinion, on a rating as no doubt the German machine guns didnt take that into consideration.No doubt movement from one theatre to another was based on necessity rather than any other consideration.It`s a pity that someone didnt write a history of the 31st Division.At least I havnt come across one!Perhaps someone else has something else to add.
When you finish your research I shall appreciate if you would let us know the sources of any comments made about the 31st,good or bad, and in particular the"Thirty Worst" one.
I would have thought that the Battle Honours spoke for themselves as is the case for any other Division.A division did not just consist of the brigade battalions as it needed its artillery support as well as all the other units including the FA.
Check out any details for months years etc, which have come from the top of my head, via The Regimental Warpath site.
Regards,
George.

which other divisions he was referring to, etc?

Pen,

Appendix A of Sir Archibald Murray's despatches
See http://www.archive.org/details/sirarchibaldmurr00murr
lists 'Units embarked from Egypt between January 9th and May 31st 1916'
and may be of some help here

Hi

Thanks for the replies. I have corrected my typo so 1918 now reads 1916. I think the comment that 31st Division was still training is probably true to some extent, though in December 1915 they were told to make ready for France and then this was changed to Egypt, so maybe they were considered ready for France in late 1915. Still trying to nail down the nickname and reputation side of things and not got beyond infantry at the moment. At some point I'd like to have a web presence for what I am gathering and will be sure to post a link when that happens.

Looking at the list in Murray's Despatches they were the third to leave Egypt, though 46th Division only had a few men in Egypt when it was decided that the rest should stay in France. 13th Division left second, but went to Basrah. I think it may take a while to fathom out how decisions were made, but the units which left after 31st had all to some extent been involved at Gallipoli so were probably resting and re-organising, using Egypt as a base rather than being there for operations, before moving on (as suggested on 1914-1918.net).

Regards
Pen

Pen,

re your
I think it may take a while to fathom out how decisions were made, but the units which left after 31st had all to some extent been involved at Gallipoli so were probably resting and re-organising, using Egypt as a base rather than being there for operations, before moving on (as suggested on 1914-1918.net).

Looking at Murray's despatches, the impression which he gives is that he thought of these divisions as being an integral part of his force; see page 14
"4. From March onwards, the rapid embarkation of troops for France depleted my forces considerably."
And in the footnote he backs this up by inviting one to examine "Appendix C giving the composition of the Force after the departure of the six divisions"

regards
Michael

Michael

Very helpful note. Thanks.

Pen