Hello

Can anyone help with this one?

I have armed guard of 5 men (RNR officer, 3 RN, and 1 Newfie RNR) lost on 16 January 1916 on Norwegian sailing vessel OLIVIA.

The vessel is not in LLOYDS WAR LOSSES.

Thanks in advance. This site is awesome!!

All best

don

Don

what is the source of your info - I can think of a possible incident - but that is not until a year later

Chris

Hello Chris

OLIVIA came from another source.

Here are the men lost in EBRO during the war as armed guards. Wondering if we have confused OLIVIA with the January 1916 incident with the March 1917?

ANDERSON JAMES SEAMAN, Newfoundland RNR X 1558 EBRO 14-Jan-16 Killed in action as armed guard on M/S
BENNETT AUSTIN D. A/LT, RNR EBRO 14-Jan-16 Killed in action as armed guard on M/S
MOORE GEORGE H. A.B. (RFR B 4374) 197138 (Ch) EBRO 14-Jan-16 Killed in action as armed guard on M/S
NEARS ALBERT A.B. (RFR B 3608) 194978 (Ch) EBRO 14-Jan-16 Killed in action as armed guard on M/S
POTTINGER ALFRED L/SEAMAN J 2350 (Ch) EBRO 14-Jan-16 Killed in action as armed guard on M/S
BARBER JOHN TY/MIDSHIPMAN, RNR EBRO 06-Mar-17 KILLED as prize crew on Norwegian vessel
ALEXANDER JAMES R. O.S., RNVR CLYDE Z 8148 EBRO 21-Mar-17 armed guard on Norwegian barque
ROBINSON RONALD J. O.S. J 55801 (Ch) EBRO 21-Mar-17 armed guard on Norwegian barque
SIMMONDS JOHN A.B. (RFR B 3779) 183437 (Ch) EBRO 21-Mar-17 armed guard on Norwegian barque

All best

don

Don

dont have the details to hand but the sailing vessel was actually the German raider Leopard - will have to look up the book when I get home

Can you pm me to remind me - new tablets you see

Chris

Don

i was completely wrong with regard to the Leopard incident as this occured on the 16th March 1917

Chris

Sadly Lloyd's War Losses is not complete.

The Olivia is listed in a Norwegian loss list I have though. She was a 492 grt wooden bark built in 1894 by Niels Olsen Gjølme, Grimstad. From June 1915, she was owned by Ole Solbjørg, Ålesund. Google translates the entry for January 6, 1916 for this vessel as "Left Leith with coal for Trondheim and disappeared with the entire crew,
10 men. " I'd presume the 10 men does not include the armed guard.

Best wishes,
Michael

Many thanks, Michael.

Thanks, also Chris. The incident you spoke of was DUNDEE and German LEOPARD.

All best

don

Hi Guys and Gals,

5-6 Jan 1916 Olivia sails. ARMED???

16 Jan 1916 IF the date AND name of the ship are correct, "merchant ship" Ebro five members of gun crew killed.
Accident?? or result of enemy action?? Little damage to ship is possible, therefore not listed in Lloyd's.
IF the name of the ship is correct, the Ebro was Danish and not Norwegian.

21 Mar 1917 No Norwegian barque sunk on this date or any other date during the war was named EBRO. There was
a Norwegian barque named NAJADE sunk on this date.

22 Mar 1917 Three Norwegian barques sunk on this date. Svendsholm, Sirius and Attika .

Possible wrong dates, wrong ship names and not enough data equals FUBAR.

Respectfully,

Joe R

HMS Ebro was an armed merchant cruiser who these men were part of the crew

A question here is why neutral vessels would have an armed guard on board

Chris

Found This

Hello Chris,

Thanks for the link. Check this one out. http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:7DSV-...=clnk&gl=us
Scroll down and find Alfred Pottinger. Which ship was he on??

Respectfully,

Joe R

The parent ship of all of these casualties is HMS Ebro which is an armed merchant cruiser which was on contraband duties

Looking for a merchant ship Ebro is a red herring

Chris

Hi again Chris,

Armed Guard- crew assigned to a fixed naval gun on a defensively armed merchant ship.

Armed Guard- crew assigned to stop, board and inspect a ship for contraband.

Chris Anderson was killed when inspecting the bark OLIVIA before she sailed to her unknown fate or not.
John Barber was killed as part of a prize crew. Which ship was taken as prize?
All were crew members of the AMC EBRO.
More research needed to determine Norwegian bark mentioned on 21 March 1917.
"Killed" used as a result of some sort of a terrible accident, drowned, fell etc..

Respectfully,

Joe R