While reserching my great uncle....Albert John Stephens 65190 106th Field Company Royal Engineers I copied info from War Diary. My uncle ws killed in a trench copied from hand drawn map in diary. However when I look at a trench map corrected to 8th April 1918 it is not shown. My uncle has no known grave but in a letter we have it was said he was buried at a farm. I would like to trace this farm and knowing the exact location of the trench would be a great help
thanks JoanClick to view attachment
Full Version: Puzzling map from Dranoutre
Joan,
I can only offer this aerial photo of Danoutre dated 22nd July 1919 which does indeed confirm that the trench existed, I have marked the entrance to two trenches with red dots, as you can see these trenches run the same as the dotted line on your map. The rest of the trench appears to have been obliterated but looking at google earth there is a farm just to the west of the end of the trench marked on your map and Bailleul Farm is only a stones throw from this position.
cheers, Jon
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
I can only offer this aerial photo of Danoutre dated 22nd July 1919 which does indeed confirm that the trench existed, I have marked the entrance to two trenches with red dots, as you can see these trenches run the same as the dotted line on your map. The rest of the trench appears to have been obliterated but looking at google earth there is a farm just to the west of the end of the trench marked on your map and Bailleul Farm is only a stones throw from this position.
cheers, Jon
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
QUOTE (jay dubaya @ Oct 8 2009, 11:53 PM) 
Joan,
I can only offer this aerial photo of Danoutre dated 22nd July 1919 which does indeed confirm that the trench existed, I have marked the entrance to two trenches with red dots, as you can see these trenches run the same as the dotted line on your map. The rest of the trench appears to have been obliterated but looking at google earth there is a farm just to the west of the end of the trench marked on your map and Bailleul Farm is only a stones throw from this position.
cheers, Jon
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
I can only offer this aerial photo of Danoutre dated 22nd July 1919 which does indeed confirm that the trench existed, I have marked the entrance to two trenches with red dots, as you can see these trenches run the same as the dotted line on your map. The rest of the trench appears to have been obliterated but looking at google earth there is a farm just to the west of the end of the trench marked on your map and Bailleul Farm is only a stones throw from this position.
cheers, Jon
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Thanks for help wll be back in Dranoutre January and May 2010 and can have a reccie then.
bet wishes
Joan
Sorry forgot to ask how do I save the photo to my computer?
thanks Joan
QUOTE (joanbelge @ Oct 9 2009, 06:47 PM)
Sorry forgot to ask how do I save the photo to my computer?
thanks Joan
thanks Joan
Click on the photo, hold and slide to your desktop.
Roel
QUOTE (roel22 @ Oct 12 2009, 09:52 PM)
Click on the photo, hold and slide to your desktop.
Roel
Roel
Or....right click with cursor over photo and then select "Save Picture As" and send it to whichever folder you like....
regards
Tom
Thank you ....so obvious I know how to do that but having a senior moment. All now safely saved
QUOTE (joanbelge @ Oct 8 2009, 09:49 PM)
While reserching my great uncle....Albert John Stephens 65190 106th Field Company Royal Engineers I copied info from War Diary. My uncle ws killed in a trench copied from hand drawn map in diary. However when I look at a trench map corrected to 8th April 1918 it is not shown. My uncle has no known grave but in a letter we have it was said he was buried at a farm. I would like to trace this farm and knowing the exact location of the trench would be a great help
thanks JoanClick to view attachment
thanks JoanClick to view attachment
Joan,
I am going over to the Salient this coming week-end. If I get a chance I'll have a look at the area in question. I have trench maps for that date. I am not surprised that your trench is not shown on the TM for 08/04/18. At that date Dranoutre was well to the rear and not heavily entrenched. By the 17th the British forces were falling back. Presumably the trench shown in the diary was an improptu one. I'll have a look around and take some photos, time and weather permitting and report back.
I have an interest in this area as my grandfather was there. On 17/04/18 his battalion was defending Mount Kemmel. Their war diary states that they were under heavy attack that day too, sighting enemy in front of Dranoutre. Small world!
Regards,
Chris.
QUOTE (Chris Backhouse @ Oct 19 2009, 01:55 PM)
Joan,
I am going over to the Salient this coming week-end. If I get a chance I'll have a look at the area in question. I have trench maps for that date. I am not surprised that your trench is not shown on the TM for 08/04/18. At that date Dranoutre was well to the rear and not heavily entrenched. By the 17th the British forces were falling back. Presumably the trench shown in the diary was an improptu one. I'll have a look around and take some photos, time and weather permitting and report back.
I have an interest in this area as my grandfather was there. On 17/04/18 his battalion was defending Mount Kemmel. Their war diary states that they were under heavy attack that day too, sighting enemy in front of Dranoutre. Small world!
Regards,
Chris.
I am going over to the Salient this coming week-end. If I get a chance I'll have a look at the area in question. I have trench maps for that date. I am not surprised that your trench is not shown on the TM for 08/04/18. At that date Dranoutre was well to the rear and not heavily entrenched. By the 17th the British forces were falling back. Presumably the trench shown in the diary was an improptu one. I'll have a look around and take some photos, time and weather permitting and report back.
I have an interest in this area as my grandfather was there. On 17/04/18 his battalion was defending Mount Kemmel. Their war diary states that they were under heavy attack that day too, sighting enemy in front of Dranoutre. Small world!
Regards,
Chris.
Thanks alot Chris I will be very interested to hear what you find I can't get there myself until new year
Thanks again Joan
Joan,
Had a look at this site at the end of last month. The hand drawn map in the War Diary is a bit wonky but the area of the red trench is obviously just south of the town square and is now in a farmers field. The field can be viewed from the east from the road heading south east to Nieuwkerke and from the west from the road leading south out of the village square. The best view is looking north, from south of the stream (Douvebeek) from a road shown on the trench map as "Grahamstown Lines".
My trench map, 28 SW 3, Edition 2A (Local). This does show some trench works that approximate to the position of the red trench and one of the trenches shown on Jay Dubaya's photos. There is not much to see today but the ground is used to graze cattle. I suspect that it hasn't been cultivated much since 1919 and the ground still has the very uneven look of heavily shelled land 90 years on. I wasn't able to walk the ground but the view from the road is pretty good. The view from Grahamstown Lines gives the attackers view of the area. My map doesn't show Bailleul Farm. There is a modern farm on the Nieuwkerke road just about where the trenches meet the road (the red dots). Perhaps this was the site of Bailleul Farm.
I am no expert, so any old sweats on here feel free to correct me. I assume your great uncle was buried very near this location before the British later retreated. The ground was heavily worked over by shelling in JD's pictures and I assume most of that was done by the British when they retook the ground in the summer of 1918. It is probable that your great uncle's grave was lost in this shelling or that his body was later recovered, unidentified, and reburied in one of the CMGC cemetries in the local area. The most likely one being the Dranoutre Military Cemetry just to the west of the village. There are some unknown's in there.
I hope this has been of some interest. I have managed to transfer my pictures onto the laptop but they won't upload. When my son sorts out the problem I'll post a few pictures too.
Regards,
Chris
Had a look at this site at the end of last month. The hand drawn map in the War Diary is a bit wonky but the area of the red trench is obviously just south of the town square and is now in a farmers field. The field can be viewed from the east from the road heading south east to Nieuwkerke and from the west from the road leading south out of the village square. The best view is looking north, from south of the stream (Douvebeek) from a road shown on the trench map as "Grahamstown Lines".
My trench map, 28 SW 3, Edition 2A (Local). This does show some trench works that approximate to the position of the red trench and one of the trenches shown on Jay Dubaya's photos. There is not much to see today but the ground is used to graze cattle. I suspect that it hasn't been cultivated much since 1919 and the ground still has the very uneven look of heavily shelled land 90 years on. I wasn't able to walk the ground but the view from the road is pretty good. The view from Grahamstown Lines gives the attackers view of the area. My map doesn't show Bailleul Farm. There is a modern farm on the Nieuwkerke road just about where the trenches meet the road (the red dots). Perhaps this was the site of Bailleul Farm.
I am no expert, so any old sweats on here feel free to correct me. I assume your great uncle was buried very near this location before the British later retreated. The ground was heavily worked over by shelling in JD's pictures and I assume most of that was done by the British when they retook the ground in the summer of 1918. It is probable that your great uncle's grave was lost in this shelling or that his body was later recovered, unidentified, and reburied in one of the CMGC cemetries in the local area. The most likely one being the Dranoutre Military Cemetry just to the west of the village. There are some unknown's in there.
I hope this has been of some interest. I have managed to transfer my pictures onto the laptop but they won't upload. When my son sorts out the problem I'll post a few pictures too.
Regards,
Chris
QUOTE (Chris Backhouse @ Nov 8 2009, 06:35 PM)
Joan,
Had a look at this site at the end of last month. The hand drawn map in the War Diary is a bit wonky but the area of the red trench is obviously just south of the town square and is now in a farmers field. The field can be viewed from the east from the road heading south east to Nieuwkerke and from the west from the road leading south out of the village square. The best view is looking north, from south of the stream (Douvebeek) from a road shown on the trench map as "Grahamstown Lines".
My trench map, 28 SW 3, Edition 2A (Local). This does show some trench works that approximate to the position of the red trench and one of the trenches shown on Jay Dubaya's photos. There is not much to see today but the ground is used to graze cattle. I suspect that it hasn't been cultivated much since 1919 and the ground still has the very uneven look of heavily shelled land 90 years on. I wasn't able to walk the ground but the view from the road is pretty good. The view from Grahamstown Lines gives the attackers view of the area. My map doesn't show Bailleul Farm. There is a modern farm on the Nieuwkerke road just about where the trenches meet the road (the red dots). Perhaps this was the site of Bailleul Farm.
I am no expert, so any old sweats on here feel free to correct me. I assume your great uncle was buried very near this location before the British later retreated. The ground was heavily worked over by shelling in JD's pictures and I assume most of that was done by the British when they retook the ground in the summer of 1918. It is probable that your great uncle's grave was lost in this shelling or that his body was later recovered, unidentified, and reburied in one of the CMGC cemetries in the local area. The most likely one being the Dranoutre Military Cemetry just to the west of the village. There are some unknown's in there.
I hope this has been of some interest. I have managed to transfer my pictures onto the laptop but they won't upload. When my son sorts out the problem I'll post a few pictures too.
Regards,
Chris
Had a look at this site at the end of last month. The hand drawn map in the War Diary is a bit wonky but the area of the red trench is obviously just south of the town square and is now in a farmers field. The field can be viewed from the east from the road heading south east to Nieuwkerke and from the west from the road leading south out of the village square. The best view is looking north, from south of the stream (Douvebeek) from a road shown on the trench map as "Grahamstown Lines".
My trench map, 28 SW 3, Edition 2A (Local). This does show some trench works that approximate to the position of the red trench and one of the trenches shown on Jay Dubaya's photos. There is not much to see today but the ground is used to graze cattle. I suspect that it hasn't been cultivated much since 1919 and the ground still has the very uneven look of heavily shelled land 90 years on. I wasn't able to walk the ground but the view from the road is pretty good. The view from Grahamstown Lines gives the attackers view of the area. My map doesn't show Bailleul Farm. There is a modern farm on the Nieuwkerke road just about where the trenches meet the road (the red dots). Perhaps this was the site of Bailleul Farm.
I am no expert, so any old sweats on here feel free to correct me. I assume your great uncle was buried very near this location before the British later retreated. The ground was heavily worked over by shelling in JD's pictures and I assume most of that was done by the British when they retook the ground in the summer of 1918. It is probable that your great uncle's grave was lost in this shelling or that his body was later recovered, unidentified, and reburied in one of the CMGC cemetries in the local area. The most likely one being the Dranoutre Military Cemetry just to the west of the village. There are some unknown's in there.
I hope this has been of some interest. I have managed to transfer my pictures onto the laptop but they won't upload. When my son sorts out the problem I'll post a few pictures too.
Regards,
Chris
Many thanks Chris, I look forward to the pictures sometime in the future. I will be going back to DRANOUTRE in May 2010 and will go armed with your observations. Can I ask where you obtained your trench map? As the one I have does not show any trenches in this area. I have visited Dranoutre Military cemetry and indeed found another Royal Engineers grave and left some flowers there.I have also found the grave of a colleague of my great uncles who died of wounds recieved at the same time as my uncle was killed. This colleague is buried not 30 metres from my uncles brother in Bailleul.
Thanks for all your help
best wishes Joan
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