Hi all.

Sorry in advance if seems a stupid question.

Ive been on a couple of WW1 web sites, and when refering to the contruction of trench and defences they mention Elephant Iron.
My question is.. was this a hard steel of some sort? Also, if known, in which part of a trench would it be used? My first thought was maybe over trench ammo?

It is I Believe "Corrougated Iron" as used in the re~inforcement of "Dugouts" see :~ Elephant Iron Dugouts Link

Also known as wrinkly Tin.

Used to make ' elephant shelters'. Preshaped, corrugated iron sheet. Put together to form shelters or re-inforce dugouts.

Yes! I know the stuff. Thanks.

From what iv'e read so for, that picture of a dugout at Hill 60 would not stay comfy for long.

Thanks gent's

Effectively very large versions of the WW2 Anderson shelter crossed with a Nissen hut

...and used by the German army as well, with more or less the same design. They called them Siegfried-Unterschlupfe [Siegfried Shelters]. Very keen on Siegfried, that well known mythological hero, the Germans. They even named the Siegfried-Stellung [Hindenburg Line] after him, quite forgetting that Siegfried meets his end in dramatic fashion before the end of Goetterdaemmerung.

Here is an example of a pair of them in use

Click to view attachment

Jack

They certainly made things to last in those days. Here is what I believe is the same thing near Wedge Wood on the Somme.

Norman

And this in the unrestored Bayernwald Flanders.

Norman

And finally (?) near Hooge, the Menin Road Flanders.

Norman

The problem is there is a stack just like that in the field next to my house (in the Marches), the farmer sometimes uses them for shelters when the sheep have lambed, and I'm pretty sure they are not of WW2 vintage - let alone WW1

Good point. This was such a useful design that I would have been amazed if it was only used in the Great War for military purposes. I think that the real mcCoy might have a heavier gauge than the more recent agricultural stuff. Corrugated iron in flat sheets was well established. It was victorian MDF.

Nice analogy, Tom - and in the same terms the curved iron sections that 'elephant shelters' were made from were Edwardian HDF, an altogether heavier gauge of metal, often with square section 'corrugations', as well illustrated in the Bayernwald pic above.

Great comments which I take refer to the last photo. Perhaps I should have added that this was taken at the rear of the Hooge Crater Museum and whilst I have of course no definite proof that this is ww1 if you look closely you will spot what is I believe a WW1 barbed wire picket or perhaps not as the case may be. As for sheep shelters the field does not look like the sort of field that sheep would graze to me and I cannot remember seeing that many sheep around the Menin Rd, cows yes.

Regards
Norman

There just had to be a website: http://www.corrugated-iron-club.info/ Although a bity quirky & although there's nothing specifically on WW1 usage, there is a 19th century catalogue showing some wonderful designs which would probably have been in use then. The local drill hall, before it was rebuilt in 1925, was a very sturdy looking structure built of the same. Here's another local building built of the stuff with a definite military connection which would certainly have been in use during WWI: the garrison church at Deepcut (Surrey) http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/59432

NigelS

The things about the gauge of metal used for elephant shelters etc is that it's structural and heavy-load-bearing in its own right, not mere cladding like flat sheet corrugated iron. It's an engineering product and was probably borrowed directly or adapted from sectional shoring for small tunnels and the like.

I just love these intellectual and erudite discussions. I will be totally convinced of the provenance of the rusty iron at Hooge if some kind member can please post a photo of sheep happily grazing in the field directly behind the Hooge Crater Museum as depicted on my last photo.

No photoshop fiddles please!

Regards
Norman

In the schism in the Church of Scotland, mid 19th C. many of the new churches were hastily built on odd scraps of land and corrugated iron was a main building material. Tin Kirks were to be the place of worship of many of the Scottish soldiers who served in the Great War. And you thought this was off topic, didn't you?

No but where are the Sheep?.

Norman

Ho Hum here we go again.

House near Oosttaverne crossroads, 2007:

Click to view attachment

Getting back to the original question: 'Elephant Iron?' Is there any evidence to suggest that corrugated iron (CI) of whatever gauge, dimension etc was ever actually known as Elephant Iron? I've searched the OED (no result), online dictionaries (no results) & online newspapers archives (pre, during, and after WWI ) as well as 'Googling' and using other search engines for ''Elephant Iron'' and, in the latter cases, the vast majority of the results returned relevant to the topic ('elephant' iron on transfers & similar cause a problem!) are coupled with shelters & dugouts ie 'Elephant Iron Shelter' ; In the cases where 'Elephant Iron' does crop up alone it is usually in modern usage connected with WW1. I'm wondering if there might be some confusion and that in fact the modern usage has come about in error from a mis-interpretation off that of WWI and that it was actually 'Elephant' [type] iron shelters and not shelters made of 'Elephant Iron' at all.

The only real evidence I can offer - by no means conclusive - is from some plans available on the 'Landships' site which I assume - possibly wrongly - are from a WW1 perod training manual:
( http://www.landships.freeservers.com/new_p..._schematics.htm )

specifically: Plate 19, which show structures with CI specified (not 'elephant iron' ) together with a diagram of a 'small elephant shelter' apparently formed from CI with no mention of the material - CI or otherwise - given (although, of course, if this was built from a standard 'kit' the material would not need to be specified)

Plate 9 which gives a trench plan with handful of 'small elephant' shelters (not 'elephant iron' shelters) shown

finally, Plate 20 shows 'small elephant steel shelter' which on the same basis as 'elephant iron' would mean - possibly splitting hairs - that there was also 'elephant steel'

As I said, not by any means conclusive, but if CI was ever known as 'Elephant Iron' - even as a brand name - I would have expected, as it would have been used in may other construction and engineering applications than just dugouts and shelters, to have been able to find many other references to it. If anybody can come up with references to say 'elephant iron sheeting', 'elephant iron roofing', elephant iron xxxxx' etc I would be convinced that it was used as an alternative name for CI, otherwise I'm afraid I have my doubts.

Now having said all that, do I get a prize for the largest number of mentions of 'elephant' in a single post?

NigelS

The elephant reference is definitely to 'elephant shelter', as in the shelters built for working elephants in India, not 'elephant' as in 'jumbo', as in bigger, heavier, more substantial etc ...

Elephant shelter is the usual reference I believe, I assumed that there had been a reference somewhere that I had not seen.

Yes they are from a WW1 publication. You are quite correct the references on the drawings are to elephant shelters not elephant iron. The steel reference I suspect is to distinguish between an elephant shelter made of corrugated steel as opposed to CI. There were two sizes of prefabricated elephant shelter designated large and small but I have seen photos of others that don't match these which suggests that some were 'custom built' I don't believe that the name comes directly from India as the small elephant shelter was much too small for an elephant and is completely the wrong shape. Elephant shelters (for elephants) in India and SE Asia are open sided see photos

http://img5.travelblog.org/Photos/53364/23...t-shelter-0.jpg
http://www.at-bangkok.com/places/ayutthaya.../chang-head.jpg
http://bangalore.metblogs.com/archives/ima...0shelterJPG.JPG
http://www.svzoo.org/graphics/zanimal/photos/elehouse.jpg
http://bugbitten.com/photogallery/data/ff8...2_p4182634.jpeg

Elephant shelters today are defined as "Portable, collapsible shelters to protect the work area when welding large work pieces out of doors." and can be hired from various suppliers. They are often made out of canvas.

There are heaps of references to elephant iron but all seem to be of modern origin - often captions for WW1 photos
but I can find no contemporary refereces to it - the closest being iron elephant shelters - suggesting that elephant shelter refers to the shape not the material. Post WW1 an elephant hut was a nisen shaped building (in WW2 often built by Quanset) which was often made of CI but sometimes wood covered with tar paper. I suspect that elephant iron is a modern misnomer for CI of various guages

The line consisted only of breastworks with elephant type shelters built in and covered with a layer of sandbags. - The First Birmingham Battalion in the Great War. (14th Service Bat. R . Warwickshire Reg) J.E.B. Fairclough. 1933. Cornish Bros. Page 86
Officers would scurry into their holes and half an hour later emerge in slacks, well groomed, and enter the mess a white washed elephant shelter, - The War History of the 4th Battalion The London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) 1914-19 HQ 1922. F.G.Grimwade P 481
I was sent off to Cavalry Farm, a spot just behind the trenches, where a small elephant hut was being built to shelter the runners on their between the front line trenches and HQ behind - Extracts from the Diaries of a Tommy (1916-19) A.H.Davis. Cecil Palmer 1932 P 58
Spoil Bank - Bn HQ was located on the carnal side of Spoil Bank itself and formed the home of several units besides our own. Most of the dugouts here were made of elephant iron and though a shrapnel proof, would not have withstood a direct hit. - The History of the 11th [Lewisham Battalion, The Queen's Own RWKR, 1934 Russell, Lewisham News p87

Unfortunately no reference to sheep.

Chris

Rgds Paul

TNA, WO95/883:

Click to view attachment

Note that the iron in ororkep's photo is the same as the stuff I highlighted in my pic of the house at Oosttaverne. It is not ordinary wriggly tin but a heavier gauge material with more widely spaced undulations..

Possibly in a similar manner to this

from ' A history of the Black Watch - vol 1


Cnock

Boezinge, anno 2000


Cnock

Sanctuary Wood Ypres.

Norman

That photo clearly shows the difference between ordinary corrugated iron and that used for 'elephant' shelters. The vertical shuttering is ordinary corrugated - the much heavier square section stuff is what elephants are made of. The problem is that lots of farmers use sections of curved ordinary corrugated for a variety of purposes (not just sheep shelters) so that unless its in situ its difficult to be absolutely sure that its WW1