Would any Gallipoli expert know the location that L/C Parker was awarded the
Victoria Cross on April 30th/May 1st. in the Anzac Sector?

I may be very wrong , but with the information that I have researched , it seems
to me that he was in the area of Maclaurens Hill (very close to the present day track
down to the 4th. battalion Parade Ground Cemetery)

I am at a brick wall at the moment , so ALL help is appreciated (as usual)

Many Thanks in advance

Peter

Peter - its been some time since I looked at this but my memory of where I thought Empson's post was was when I was looking at the Royal Marines in Gallipoli would roughly concur with your thoughts now. I thought the other side of the road (ie right hand side of road walking from Lone Pine towards Walker's Ridge, although NML was probably very narrow here).

Also I am sure the TNA had a file on the award of his VC - I may have have photographed this, but I cant recall what it would include.

There are other sources. For instance I am sure the RND Magazine by Len Sellers included accounts - either those accumulated by the Empson family or direct from Alcock. Again, my memory is not clear.

Regards,

Jonathan S

Did we not answer this for you when you raised it back in June?

Hi Peter,

I agree with Jonathan S. I've always placed Walter Parker's VC action at the battle outposts in Wire Gully, basically the gully on the other side of the road to the track to 4th Batt Parade Ground. Bean, in the preface to Volume 1:

The marines who relieved Loutit's advanced post on the south of Wire Gully had also been driven from their trench. The result was that a thin platoon of the Portsmouth Battalion...which still occupied the old battle outpost in the hollow of Wire Gully, was completely cut off...The most dangerous [Turkish] assault on that night [30 April] was against the portion of trenches on MacLaurin's Hill from which Graham's marines had been driven upon April 30th. This trench, known as "Street's," actually formed the upper end of the old battle outpost in which lower down still lay the isolated platoon of marines under Lieutenants Empson and Alcock. Throughout the Turkish attack Empson and his men had maintained their position, although, as their battalion commander afterwards wrote, "without means of reinforcement, replenishment or retreat."

A footnote then describes how Parker won the VC for 'carrying succour' to this trench and staying there when wounded on the night of May 1.

Parker's actions occured over a fairly wide area and for most of the night, but the battle outpost in Wire Gully seems to be the spot where the most 'important' part of his VC action occured.

Cheers,

Mat

Johnathon S and michaeldr.

Thanks for your input Gents.

Matt.
I could not see the forest for the trees this time.

Researched Walter Parker for weeks and never thought to look in Bean's
Official History.

Taught me something , especially with the O.H. being on line.

Thanks Mate.

Peter

Johnathon S and michaeldr.

Thanks for your input Gents.

Matt.
I could not see the forest for the trees this time.

Researched Walter Parker for weeks and never thought to look in Bean's
Official History.

Taught me something , especially with the O.H. being on line.

Thanks Mate.

Peter

this should link you up with your previous question, maps and a photograph of Parker's grave
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...=126959&hl=

Michael

Many , Many Thanks

Peter

Peter,

As Jon mentioned on the other thread (see its post No. 4) "There was some delay that caused the VC not to be confirmed until 1917 or 1918."

Parker has the 'distinction' of being the first VC at Anzac and the last to be awarded that honour for the Gallipoli campaign
There is a very good chapter on W R Parker VC in Stephen Snelling's book 'VCs of the First World War – Gallipoli' (Alan Sutton Publishing, 1995, ISBN 0-7509-056-2)
Snelling describes how the recommendations for a VC made by Lt Col F W Luard and Maj C F Jerram were lost together with the dispatches and it was only a year later that a second successful attempt was made to do justice to Parker. His award of the Victoria Cross was finally made on 22 June 1917

regards
Michael

Peter,

No worries.

Just reading the other thread, the area you're looking for is the southern end of MacLaurin's Hill (or, more accurately, the northen slope of Johnston's Jolly). The accounts I've read from the Aussie perspective are pretty clear that the focus of all the described actions was the battle outposts that ran down the eastern side of Wire Gully, an area that fell into Turkish hands after the first week or so (ie: the gully on the opposite side of the road to the sign to 4th Battalion Parade Ground). Bean describes the fighting there in detail in Gallipoli Mission (pp143-147), calling the posts 'death traps'. These were the forward posts where Parker did his good work on April 30/May 1.

You can scramble down the gully and stand on the approximate spot today, but it's pretty choked with scrub and there's of course no sign of the posts. The one thing that strikes you is how exposed the position is to the valleys in the Turkish sector. No wonder the posts were untenable. 'Death traps' is right!

Hope this helps.

Mat

Mat,

Any chance of a map, or failing that, your notes on the first map in post #2 in the other thread?

Best regards
Michael

Hi Michael,

I've marked Wire Gully on the map from the other thread (although I'm not sure the height contours on this map are 100% accurate). The outposts ran down both sides of the gully in the first 10 days.

Cheers,

Mat

Very grateful for that Mat
Many Thanks

Michael

Matt and Peter,

Having gone back to Blumberg this morning on another matter, I also took the opportunity re read his section on these events. Looking a little further up the page (137) from which I quoted in the other thread, then it seems to me that he specifically excludes Wire Gully from amongst the possibilities here.

quote:

"Chatham and Portsmouth Battalions, were holding the old line of the 3rd Australian Brigade on McLaurin's Hill, and also that of the 19th Battalion on the north part of Lone Pine Plateau, the line south of this being held by Deal. By the night of 29/30th, most of the Australians had been relieved. General Trotman's headquarters were at Scott's Point, on the southern shoulder of McLaurin's Hill; this part of the line included the important position of Courtney's Post.
The ground held by the RMLI, included half of the eastern front and was too long for these battalions. They worked hard at improving the trenches, but those on the plateau were under heavy shell fire, and little improvement was possible. The ground in front of Deal fell away into hollows and ravines, which the Turks formed for their attacks about 100 yards in front of the British lines."

KEMAL'S THIRD ATTACK
On the 30th, the Turks who had massed in Wire Gully, renewed the attack, and the pressure from Courtney's Post, southwards became very great. The 14th Australians relieved the Royal Marines at Courtney's Post, and the Royal Marine supports were brought up. It was found that the trenches which had been prepared at the head of Wire Gully, could not be occupied, owing to enemy machine gune fire."

I am sure that we are in the right area, but from the above, it does not seem posible that Empson and Alcock's trench, to which Parker went, was at the head of Wire Gully. From the remark that the Turks used Wire Gully for their assembly, it does not seem likely that anywhere else in Wire Gully could have held this isolated trench either.

When quoting from the London Gazette, Blumberg corrects the mention of an "isolated trench at Gaba Tepe" and adds "(really Lone Pine Plateau)"

Should we be looking at somewhere just a little way back from the edge of the head of Wire Gully?

regards
Michael

Interesting. I hadn't seen that description before. Where does Blumberg source this information from? Bean is pretty unequivocal in both the Official History and Gallipoli Mission that it was the battle outposts in Wire Gully where the action took place. The most important aspect of both Bean's account and the VC citation is that the post where Parker won the VC was well in advance of the main line, and cut off from the rest of the RND. One account said that Parker had to cover 300 yards of exposed ground to reach the trench. Quoting Bean: '...lower down still lay the isolated platoon of marines under Lieutenants Empson and Alcock. Throughout the Turkish attack Empson and his men had maintained their position, although, as their battalion commander afterwards wrote, "without means of reinforcement, replenishment or retreat."'

It seems to me that both accounts could well be correct. Blumberg seems to be discussing the dispositions of the entire battalions in the main line - and it's true that the battalions did pull back from the outposts in Wire Gully before the Turkish attack. Except of course, for Empson and Alcock's small group, which is the one we're most interested in.

The other thing I should mention is that Wire Gully is fairly sizable. So the suggestion that the Turks attacked from Wire Gully doesn't preclude the notion that some isolated posts at its head were still occupied by the Allies at the time.

The key will be finding a trench map that highlight's the exact location of 'Street's Trench'. This is where the action took place, so that should solve the mystery.

Cheers,

Mat

Where does Blumberg source this information from?

Mat,

General Sir H E Blumberg KCB RM: 'Britain's Sea Soldiers – A record of the Royal Marines during the war 1914-1919' was first published in 1927. Being an RM-insider, Blumberg had full access to unit war diaries, records, etc. and the cooperation of the Adjutant-General RM and the Staff of the Royal Marine Office, as well as contact with former officers and NCOs.

regards
Michael