I have struggled to get any hard data from official figures on deserters, best I could find was a figure quoted by the BBC which was

The average yearly incidence of desertion in World War One was 10.26 cases per 1,000 troops per year

I cannot find a source for that, can anyone confirm or deny that figure

Also if any readers of this thread have their own figures for desertion rates in particular regiments or battalions, then can they give an idea as to what they are by unit.

I would assume that the Army would not have been too keen to actually publish desertion figures, but one would have thought that Brigade, Divisional or Army commanders would have had figures to see if there were any particular "problems"

centurion says:

1914-5 2.07 %
1916 0.92%
1917 0.74%
1918 0.74%
1919 0.80%

Lists of Deserters by name can be found for all services in the Police Gazette - a fortnightly publication. Numbers regarding front line desertions I believe can be found in uiit "returns", but I can't remember if these were weekly or monthly.

With an average of barely 1% desertion rate, I should imagine that the Army commanders could hardly believe their luck and would be trumpetting figures like that from the rooftops. The rate of crime and desertion dropped during the war from its peacetime rate.

I was quoting the figures from a site on jurisprudencedance that includes courts martial. I just converted the figures to percentages.

As I say. I am struggling to find figures.

I came across that BBC figure, but have no idea where it came from.

I have been through groups of MICs for Royal Dublin Fusiliers, and in broad terms taking 1000 cards for a regular battalion and getting a 3% desertion rate on that group of men (allowing for not all having MICs and not making any allowances for the average length of service) who had joined before the beginning of the war.

And taking another group of 1000 MICs who joined in early 1916 and getting the same sort of desertion rate, but from men only in the war half the period, but not regulars

I know that lists of deserters are available in Police Gazette, but I am trying to compare Dublin Fusilier rates with national rates, rather than try to do a full scale study of desertion rate in British Army.

Its odd that many books have been written about those "shot at dawn" , but little about those that "merely" deserted and nothing more was known. Maybe someone has come across a book on the general subject of desertion in WW1 rather than the executed deserters

Hello corisande

You might try "The Unknown Army" by Douglas Gill and Gloden Dallas, published in paperback in 1985. It is mostly about mutinies and other acts of disaffection, but may have some useful infdo on desertions too.

Ron

Ron

Thanks for that, the book looks very useful, so I have ordered a copy online. Wonderful thing the web

The Parliamentary Paper, 'General Annual Reports of The British Army for the period from 1st October 1913 to 31st October 1919' which was published in 1921 contains all manner of statistics regarding the manning of the army during the periods quoted. The following figures are given for desertion:

Year Ending 30/9/1914 - Struck off as deserters: 3,280 Given up as deserters: 3
Year Ending 30/9/1915 - Struck off as deserters: 40,375 Given up as deserters: 33
Year Ending 30/9/1916 - Struck off as deserters: 26,520 Given up as deserters: 36
Year Ending 30/9/1917 - Struck off as deserters: 21,838 Given up as deserters: 8
Year Ending 30/9/1918 - Struck off as deserters: 26,272 Given up as deserters: 5
Year Ending 30/9/1919 - Struck off as deserters: 21,618 Given up as deserters: 2

No explanation or definition of terms is given to clarify the two desertion figures.

Aled

Aled

Thanks for those official figures. They are showing about 2% of men deployed, and I can look at the annual figures that I am getting to see how they stack up

I am researching the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, and there tend to be political agenda's but booth British and Irish governments on the role/value of Irish regiments. So I am trying to get back to the raw data and interpret it myself to see what spin the authorities are putting on the stats.

Mind you looking at those figures if they "struck off" about 140,000 deserters you would not think they could have put the lot in prison!

I assume as well as struck off deserters that there were others not struck off for various reasons

IIRC the first step was to declare a man absent without leave. This was a notifiable occurence in Regt/Btn Part 2/3 Orders (ORs/Offrs) (I may have these back to front). He became a deserter if he was arrested/detained and after court martial found to be a deserter or after a period, 30 days comes to mind, but perhaps wrongly.

So does this mean that if his MIC says "deserter" he would have been through that process, and had a court martial and found guilty?

What I am trying to understand is the "grey area" between being late back from leave, say, and deserting. There is obviouly a difference between a "normal" desertion, and desertion in the line.

I read a lot about Sub Lt Dyett and his being shot for desertion. He had "only" deserted for a couple of days, but it was under fire (I am not trying to spark a debate on this case!)

Corisande

IIRC the authorities had the names of absentees posted in the Police Gazette after 21 days' unauthorised absence.

There was no strict time-delimitation between AWOL and desertion. It was usual (mandatory?) to hold a court of enquiry within 21 days if a man was absent, to determine what facts could be established at that early stage, e.g. did he take any kit with him, or was there any other evidence within the unit that he did, or did not, intend to return?

Desertion as distinct from AWOL implies an intention not to return, or an attempt to avoid a particular service. A soldier found at one of the ports, in civilian clothes, trying to get passage to the UK might be arrested, tried and convicted of desertion even if he had been absent for a matter of hours. Conversely, a man who overstayed his leave because of missing transport connections might be given more lenient treatment, if he could show that he had made every reasonable effort to return on time and had not sought to evade the military authorities or police. The Army was not a soft touch in this respect but a man with a clean record would probably be given some benefit of the doubt.

Desertion, as opposed to cowardice, was defined in such a way that it was easy to prove at trial. If you were not at the place you should be, at the time you should be, you needed a very good excuse to avoid being classed as a deserter, especially on active service. Dyett, I believe, had been ordered to the front by, technically, a superior officer, and he did not go.

I don't think that "deserter" on the medal card indicates that he had been convicted by court-martial. He might not have been caught, and the court of enquiry would have inferred an intention not to return so, if he did turn up and claimed the medals, he could be court-martialled then, and would have an uphill job convincing the court!

Ron

The RDF Medal Rolls will contain all your front line desertions, giving the date they deserted. The Police Gazette will also give all of your home/overseas desertions with a detailed desription of the deserter. Easier to trawl through them than try and go off statistics.

The same source quoted in my previous post also gives numbers of men charged with various offences at courts martial (General, District and Field General) both at home and abroad for the period 4th August 1914 to 30th December 1919. The following might be of interest:

Cowardice: At Home - 0 Abroad - 420
Desertion: At Home - 29,826 Abroad - 7,181
Absence: At Home - 47,987 Abroad 38,365

Unlike the previous figures I quoted these numbers include 'Overseas Dominion troops, coloured labour etc.' Even taking this into account it shows a great difference between the number of men who were struck off and those actually charged with desertion. They confirm Ron's distinctions between the different offences.

Aled

Hi

Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but how would one go about acquiring this sort of information from the Police Gazette?

Regards

Teresa

All of the Police Gazettes are held in the British Newspaper Library and if you are trying to determine a particular regiments desertion rate then going through these sources would give you the details of each particular deserter. The same would apply to the Regiments Medal Roll Books as each individual deserters date of desertion is to be found in the right hand section. Using both of these sources and a database you could determine the numbers of deserters you had in your unit.

Need to be careful - not everyone notified to the police as a deserter was tried and convicted as a deserter. One example some soldiers had learned to work the system and take advantage of the somewhat chaotic railway system and Ramassage trains with no fixed timetable to extend their time away often by more than a week. [The ruse was to miss a connection or get put on the wrong train. arrive at the wrong place - get the Railway Transport Officer to stamp your pass, get accommodation from the Town Mayor with another stamp and then repeat the process the next day - having a tour of France]. Arriving eventually at their unit they could say "honestly Sir, I was back with the army, look at all these stamps on my pass etc etc" [doubtless everyone knew the score but provided the unit was back from the line or in a quiet sector not too much fuss seems to have been made]. Such men could well have been notified to the police but would never be charged with desertion. There were doubtless other reasons why notification did not result in charge.

Edit according to the source, the figures I quoted show numbers actually charged with desertion rather than reported as having deserted.