Hello I am trying to find some info on my great uncle and wondered if any one knows how to find out which tank he was in at the battle of Boulon and Cambrai, i have managed to get the list down to the 14 tanks that were in the 17th coy which i get a list of in the next few days from the tank museum. He is reported missing and is remebered on the Louverval memorial with no known grave. Another thing is how do i find out if his records still exist, im in the process of applying for another relative but is there an easy way of finding out before i apply many thanks.

Hi Sleeper

You ought to buy the War History of the Sixth Tank Battalion by the Naval & Military Press.

This might give some clues to your relative tank.

Unfortunately it was a major battle and alot of soldiers were killed and wounded so might be looking for a needle in haystack.

You maybe lucky to locate the cementry and find that the crew are buried side by side which could mean they were in the tank together. Only a guess but if an officer and several crew with your relative, the officer name will help identify the tank.

If you read the war diaries they are more concerned with the officers i.e. Lt Jones killed and 3 others. Just shows you what they thought of the ordinary soldiers. Good luck.

Do you still have his medals and plaque as would like to see pictures.

Simon

I have had a brief look through my copy and your relative is listed as missing in the diaries along with about 30 other soldiers.

Simon

Hi again just had a quick look at my copy and your relative is listed as missing along with 30 other soldiers.

Simon

I can't tell you the identity of the tank he was in but hopefully the following newspaper extracts may be of some use to you?

The Barrow papers didn't go for long write-up's after 1916 and the mention of him is a bit sparse. However, it may help you to narrow down your search because it does state that he was in one of the Company's tanks which was cut off.

He is commemorated on Barrow-in-Furness War Memorial and also on Flookburgh War Memorial (as Haslam Tyson). If you have a photograph of him and can post a scan on here I'd love to see it.

Best wishes.

Andy.

Flookburgh War Memorial

MISSING FROM A TANK.

Mrs. Tyson, of 3, Lumley-street, has been notified that Gunner E. H. Tyson, who has been in France about seven months, is missing. He was in the Tank Corps, and a letter from his captain says: “In the attack on Bourlon, on the 27th some of our tanks were cut off and came under heavy fire from the enemy. There is reasonable hope to believe that he (Gunner Tyson) is a prisoner.” The officer added that Tyson was a great favourite; cheerful and devoted to his duty.

-: Barrow News, Saturday, December 15, 1917; page 3.


KILLED IN ACTION.

TYSON.- Reported missing on the 27th November, now reported killed in action on that date, Edward Haslam Tyson (Tank Corps), the eighth and dearly loved son of Benjamin and Sarah Agnes Tyson, 3, Lumley-street, late of Cark-in-Cartmel, aged 19 years.

-: Barrow News, Saturday, March 30, 1918; page 12.


ROLL OF HONOUR.

TYSON.- In loving memory of Gunner Edward Haslam Tyson (Tank Corps), who was killed at Bourlon on November 27th, 1917, aged 20, the eighth and beloved son of B. and S. A. Tyson, 3, Lumley-street, Barrow (late of Cark-in-Cartmel).

“Nobly he answered his country’s call and fell.”

“Ever remembered by all at home and five brothers on active service.”

-: Barrow News, Saturday, November 23, 1918; page 12.

As regards his service records the only place thet you would find them at the moment (assuming they survived the Blitz - c.70-80% didn't) will be at the National Archives at Kew. Ancestry as supposed to be uploading the remaining Service Paper scans at some point but no-one knows when.

I assume you know from Soldier's Died that he was previously 38873, Machine Gun Corps? I don't know when this number was allocated but I'll try and find out for you. I do know it was well before 26/7/16, because 44952 was allocated on that date. There exists the possibility that he was in another regiment prior to that and was transferred to the MGC.

Andy.

Thankyou very much crikey been searching for months all that ties in with all the relatives i know i still live in Barrow and new about the memorial in barrow but not flookburgh. My grandfather was named after his uncle with exactly the same name. Im sorry but i have nothing in paper work or medals as things in my family were very disjointed after the second world war many thanks to all, THANKS AGAIN STU

I may be reading too much into the letter written by your relative's officer, but it sounds to me as though the tank in question was missing, and it's not just a case of your relative being missing. If so, I suspect that your relative was in one of a group of F Battalion tanks that went missing that day. Of these, F5, F2 and FS2 were not of 17th Company, so can be probably eliminated (I am assuming that your relative crewed a 17th Battalion tank and hadn't been moved to another tank to replace a casualty). That leaves F31 "Fearnought", F27 "Fighting Mac II" and F30 "Flaming Fire II".

Some crewmen from F31 were captured but escaped and managed to return to British lines. That being so, I would have expected that had your relative been in that tank news of his death would have become known earlier (though this is hardly conclusive because many lost their lives baling out of tanks under fire). That leaves us with F27 and F30. If I was to be asked which was more likely, my guess would be F30 because it has a shell hole just behind the starboard sponson and this might well have killed one or more gunners. However much of this is little more than informed speculation, I'm afraid, and the truth is we'll probably never know.

Gwyn

A photo of the scene showing the missing tanks discussed in my previous post.

Thanks a lot all unbelievable im just gutted i have not got any of his medals or plaque as i have for other relatives, if any one has pics of 17th company or knows where there are some id be much obliged as i have no pictures at all but my mother is really an expert at picking out family traits many thanks again this all opens up other avenues

See 'The Tank Corps Honours and Awards 1916-19' page 383 for his entry in 'The Roll of Honour - Other Ranks' :

201202 Tyson, E. Pte. Town of Residence - Barrow-in-Furness.

Philip

From Paul Nixon of this Forum:

He would have been transferred/enlisted in the MGC in the second half of May 1916.

Unfortunately he does not know when the Tank Corps number would have been issued (ie.e. the date he was transferred from the MGC to the Tank Corps.



I'd be interested to know the service of his brothers, if those are the relatives you refer to (or any other relatives if they have a Barrow-in-Furness connection)?

Andy.

Cheers for all the info gents im afraid this has opened a can of worms for me and my mother as we new about the other five brothers but did not know that they served so this will have to be investigated as i have all the names just no numbers so ill have to check the record cards it means that my grandad served as well, i have no medals or info on these brothers as like i said before the family fell apart a little after the 2nd war. i do have two other relatives from glasgow that i have hit a brick wall with as they are called walker with no numbers and one died france the other in india but that is another story.Edwards mother is buried in walneys cemetry with my mams sister ill keep you posted if i find anything about the other brothers pm me if you would like their names. cheers again to everyone.

I might - I stress, might - be able to find out something of his brothers' service. There is a Roll of Honour in Barrow Archive Office which I can look at. Generally it gives regiment/service and address although it is by no means complete and whether someone is listed all depends on whether their family submitted names for inclusion in the first place.

I'll pm you my email address.

Post the details you have of the Walkers - you never know what might turn up!

Andy.

Just one more thing i have found out right next to Edward Haslam Tyson on barrow cenotaph is a George H Tyson at first we did not realise this was a relative as it says he lived in dalton however the whole family is from the cark and walney areas mainly living on farms but this now looks like a brother so it might be that two brothers out of the six were killed sorry to ask again Andy but i dont know where to look for the Barrow news paper exerts regards stu

Sorry cant pm people yet there are pics of the two peter and john walker in army uniform on ancestry if you look at tyson hartley family tree all the tyson brothers are listed aswell, how do i get your email address or send you mine andy

Sorry mate, I forgot to pm it to you! Got distracted(with work). Should be sorted now.

Don't think George H. Tyson is a direct family member of yours - he was the son of a Mr. and Mrs. Edward Tyson and was actually born in Millom. Mind you, Tyson is local name and as they say, if you kick one they all limp so he could fit into the family tree somewhere.

There is a Reginald Tyson listed too. He was born in Ulverston and his mother lived at 65, Arthur Street. There's a few other Tysons on local memorials so I'll have a look at your family tree on Ancestry.

Andy.

I can't pm you either !! You need to have made 10 posts before your personal messenger is activated. Just make a couple of blank posts or something to build the total up and then I'll be able to send you my email address.

Andy

yes just had a word with my ma about george he is not a son of agnes and benjamin im away a lot i do the leg work for my mother she is doing the ancestry bit still learning thanks for the help

Pardon my intrusion, but from the photograph of those 4 tanks, they don't seem unduly "wrecked" such as to not allow the recovery of any bodies.
There seems no evidence of crews being buried near the tanks. The area also appears quiet enough for the German soldiers just to be standing around quite casually, so seems to now be far away from the front. Is that because these tanks penetrated far behind the German lines before being stopped?
I assume the photo is of where the tanks were stopped, and not a grouping of tanks recovered from various places for examination. It seems strange for them to be so bunched together as that presents more of a target for artillery, miss one but then hit another. Was that some sort of early fighting formation for mutual support without infantry, or perhaps one tank being hit and others coming to rescue the crew and in turn being knocked out?

I'm just a little surprised that in this instance there is no known grave for Gunner Tyson, but I know little about what could have happened inside the tank once a shell penetrated. Obviously he might have been identified and buried, but the grave destroyed in subsequent fighting.

Another good example of how from fairly rudimentary information, the Pals here have practically found out all there is available!

Good to see that sleeper has cracked the 10 posts barrier and that he has all the information offered by PM now. Were you influenced by this family background to go into tanks, or is it something you have since found out?
Edit:
I've used Geoff's Search Engine for Tank Corps deaths for 27/11/1917 and there are 16 all of whom (apart from 2nd Lt Eckley) are on the Cambrai Memorial.
As some of the Service Nos. are similar, I include the Names below, they might register with some other Pals who might be able to provide more information for you:

001 ADAMSON ES 201054 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
002 BEVAN TH 92686 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
003 BLACKWELL CA 69515 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
004 CHESHIRE FA 92640 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
005 ECKLEY FG - F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
006 GRIFFITHS JW 201221 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
007 HARRIS CA 69282 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
008 HATCHARD WE 201266 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
009 JOYCE A 69668 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
010 MCBRIDE J 69583 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
011 MCRAE RJ 201206 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
012 ROBERTS CA 92632 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
013 SCOTHERN B 78684 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
014 STARKEY JB 201073 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
015 THORPE NL 94829 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS
016 TYSON E 201202 F BN 27/11/1917 TANK CORPS

I hope this helps.

JUST SOMETHING IVE FOUND OUT RECENTLY REALLY I ACTUALLY AM A HEAVY MECHANIC AND HAVE BEEN POSTED TO A FEW TANK REGTS FIXING THEM IM DOWN AT THE HOME OF THE ROYAL ARMOURED CORP AT THE MOMENT SO WAS GETTING INFO DOWN HERE CHEERS FOR EVERYTHING GENTS IM JUST RESEARCHING THE REST OF HIS BROTHERS NOW

Well, F30's definitely been hit by something unfriendly and the Female just right of centre has a broken track so I don't think they've been captured elsewhere and then assembled here. You do see tanks bunched up like this. It doesn't mean they all arrived at that spot at the same time, but sometimes a tank would get into trouble, another would try to rescue the crew and then find it had entered a killing zone etc. I'm not saying that's what happened here - I don't think we know, at least not from British sources. But yes, this is well behind German lines.

Gwyn

Thanks to all who have helped me with this if ever i can help in any way regards stu