Whilst browsing through a volume of "I was There" i came across an account of a B.E.F. encampment being destroyed due to the explosion of an old British Mine that had failed to detonate on 01.07.16..the author of the account mentions that the Mine was finally detonated due to a group of Officers who had been hunting Rats and were trying to smoke said Rats from their holes by using lighted Cloth/Rags.The Battalion concerned was 12th Kings Liverpools,and the War Diary mentions 3 Officers Killed along with 9 other ranks,i can only find 2 Officers and 10 other ranks.The Officer casualties are buried in Carnoy Cemetery along with 9 of the O/Rs,1 O/R is commemorated on the Thiepval mem,Richard Van Emden in his Book "The Soldiers War" also includes an account of this incident from 2/Lt George Foley,7th Somerset L.I..Would there have been a court of enquiry regarding this Incident ?..and would it be possible to actually pin point the location of this Mine,and the location of the Kings Liverpools at the time of this terrible event..Many Thanks Russ.

A full Court of Enquiry was convened and can be found in the service papers of Lt Henry Bedo Hobbs, 10th Kings (Liverpool Regt): Ref WO 374/33783

I have a full transcript of the court of enquiry plus details of all men who were killed. I am busy today but will try and post this on the forum over the weekend. The incident occurred at Camp 4, Carnoy. I posted a thread about the location of this camp some month ago but, not surprisingly, got no response. I took a group to the site of the Carnoy crater field astride the Carnoy-Montauban road (approx site of Camp 4) in the summer and told them this story. FYI, the diameter of the crater left was 100ft with a depth of 25ft.

Hope this works - am copying from an Excel spreadsheet. Details of the men who were killed in the explosion. Buried in Carnoy Military Cemetery unless otherwise stated.
Rank Surname Forenames Battalion Regiment Age Grave Ref/Cemetery
Lt Hobbs Henry Bedo 10th Kings 26 A.8.
Lt Gregory Henry Vincent 3rd attd 12th Kings 21 A.1.
2/Lt Mitchell James Alexander 5th Borders 19 A.7.
Pte Ainscow T 12th Kings Y.1.
Sgt Bradshaw James Alexander 12th Kings Z.2.
Pte Davitt M 12th Kings Z.4.
Pte Halton Thomas Lee 12th Kings Thiepval
Cpl Hetherington Frederick 12th Kings 25 IV. C. 14. Grove Town Cem, Meaulte
Pte Jones GE 12th Kings A.1.
Pte Maguire H 12th Kings A.3.
Pte Roberts F R 12th Kings A.2.
Pte Rotherham James Alexander 12th Kings Z.3
Pte Ruddy Patrick 12th Kings Thiepval
Pte Rudyard James Alexander 12th Kings Z.12.

Many thanks Jeremy for the wealth of information about this somewhat forgotten incident,Kind regards Russ.

Thanks. I did a lot of the research for Richard’s ‘The Soldier’s War’ and it was one of the stories that really piqued my interest and made me do some more looking into the subject. I’ll try and get that full transcript on over the weekend as I’m off out soon. I think it one of the most remarkable events that I have read about. If most of the men hadn't been out at a divisional concert party then the casualties would have been horrendous (and we would all, more than likely, have known about it).

Hello again Jeremy..Here goes !

The HIDDEN DEATH (Amazing Outcome of a Rat Hunt)
by Lt.Colonel Osburn D.S.O.

In the dreary winter months of 1917 the performances of "The Verey Lights" were one of the very few things to look forward to.Some in the Division were passable Actors,and the "Girls" were sufficiently life like,a little face powder and Lipstick did wonders with some of the slim youngsters.One afternoon in February 1917 a crowded house filled a shed between Carnoy and Montabaun."G".the leader of the troupe was having a mild flirtation on the stage with the principle "girl" a red headed young driver of the ASC.
Suddenly the whole ground heaved as with an earthquake,there was a roar like an avalanche,the actors were flung on their backs,the whole building rocked,our chairs spinning around underneath us."Whats that ?" asked G springing excitedly to his feet.He was answered by a series of heavy thumps and crashes on the wooden roof.For a moment we imagined that one of the Germans 17 inch shells must have landed near the hut,or that one of our own 15 inch guns had fired close over our heads.
A moment later a begrimed and breathless man burst in pale and excited."The Camps Gone !".."Two whole regiments,are there any doctors ?".Everyone dashed out to where the camp had been.Within 50 yards of the Hut there was a gigantic crater,a black gulf as of a volcano,all about its heaped and jagged edges beneath mounds of fresh chalk were the twisted remains of army huts and scores of huddled,inanimate figures in khaki.A few awed and rather hysterical survivors were standing staring helplessly into into the black still smoking gulf.Great boulders of chalky rock and flurries of reddish earth torn out of the eighty or a hunderd feet below were spread out fanwise across the valley,and even on to the far slope 400 yards away.At first no one knew what had happened,and we were far too busy picking up those who were still conscious to inquire.Somewhere in this neighbourhood during the 1st great offensive on the Somme in July 1916 one of the series of great mines we had dug underneath the germans had failed to explode.It was said that the germans had countermined it,and we in turn had gone underneath their countermine,and in the advance the very existence of all this stored explosive had been forgotten !.
That Day,apparently some officers of the Kings,noticing that the remains of the old german front line trenches which crossed the camp were swarming with rats had started with Terriers and bombs on a Ratting expedition in the camp.One of them,we supposed - for they were all killed must have blundered in to the beginning of the shaft to the mine and flung a Bomb into the darkness,hoping to drive the rats out to the Terriers,all 3 mines had gone up simultaneously.For 6 Months various battalions had been living in huts immediatley above this sleeping dynamite.The 2 regiments concerned did not belong to our division and we never heard the exact number of casualties.It was said to be 5 or 6 hundred.But for so many from the camp being at the entertainment it would have certainly been more.Many score of Nissen huts had been blown sky high.Ten years afterwards i visited the spot.There was still an immense pit in the ground some 3 or 4 hundred yards in circumference.The crater had become filled with bushes.

Source "I was there" Vol 2 Page 1006

I have been pondering just how a Mine of this apparent size could have simply been "Lost"...was the original Tunnel presumably a French Tunnel that the R.Es took over ?,or were the Sappers simply not that efficient when it came to keeping maps and records of their tunneling activities ?...Any help as to which tunneling companies were active in this sector prior to 01.07.1916 would greatly help in shedding more light on this forgotten episode.Lastly a final question..if the casualtys had gone into their Hundreds would the censor have swung into action and attempted to cover up the entire incident ?.

PBI

From the couple of Tunnelling Company War Diaires I have read through,anything they constructed underground seems to have been beautifully recorded with Indian Ink drawings and the positions then recorded on the local Military Map of the area.
Having said that wasn't there something underground that was "lost" in the Ypres sector later in the war ? Or was it merely that they knew where the workings were but had "lost" the entrance !

Sotonmate

A british mine at Le Gheer in Belgium exploded in 1955 when the charge was detonated by a Lightning strike !,i also am led to believe that there is still a british Tunnel boring machine stuck fast beneath Ploegsteert wood.I still find it very odd that these large mines can simply be "lost".Maybe it was too much effort to remove the unused/failed charges,and the Mines concerned were simply and conveniently forgotten about ?....out of sight and out of mind ?.

PBI,

From the Liverpool Regt perspective I have been aware of this incident for many years and also have a transcript of the court of enquiry - however I do not wish to steal any of Jeremy's thunder and will wait for him to post the full transcript. However within the transcript it says "The explosion could only have been due to two causes a: an undisclosed German mine or b: a store of explosives not handed on by 183 Tunnelling Company.

Promenade

Maybe a Forum member has information as to which German unit could have been responsible for mining Ops in that sector ?.

PBI & Promenade,
Apologies for delay in posting transcript of court of enquiry but work got in the way. Now that I have had a look for it I realise that all my work for Soldier’s War is on an external hard drive that I don’t have in my possession at the moment. I have searched high and low for my printout that I used in the summer for my visit to the site but can’t find that either amongst all the other stuff in my office. Note to myself – must get more organised!
As I am unsure as to when I will get this hard drive back I would ask that Promenade post his transcript. It certainly wouldn’t be stealing any of my thunder (seeing as I can’t post the transcript anyway).
Cheers

In the Carnoy area it was the 12th Infantry Division and the pioneers were 2nd and 3rd Companies of 6th Pioneers and Pioneer Company 264.