Comments? suggestions?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8333733.stm

There is no right or wrong way to wear a poppy,I wasnt aware that Poppy facists existed,evidently I am mistaken hordes of octagenarian Blue Ruinsed WRBL Poppy Collectors haranguing Jon Snow to wear one? odd!!,& as far as wearing one if the donator chooses to wear it all year round then thats fine by me!

Last year Britons bought 26m poppies, but others choose not to. Channel 4 newsreader Jon Snow famously refuses to wear one on air, reportedly saying he does not want to bow to "poppy fascism''.

No 'lack of offensive spirt' on the part of General Thomas D'Oly Snow's grandson then! .

mb

Poppy fascism? Sounds more like ooh look at me I'm not wearing a poppy and rather than keeping quiet about the fact has to shout about it....so more like non poppy fascism.

Him and his son really do pee me off anyway so just adds to the list.

Mick

I think you'll find that TV Presenter Dan Snow is not Newsreader Jon Snow's son, but rather he's Peter Snow's son (Mr Swingometer)
Jon and Peter are cousins.
mb

A piece in the Telegraph last week:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6461635/Po...-etiquette.html

and a letter in response from Robert Lee of The Royal British Legion

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters...protection.html (Scroll down to 'There is only one right way to wear a poppy')

The final sentence IMO is absolutely spot on: There is only one right way to wear a poppy, and that is with pride.

NigelS

agree
tafski

Jon Snow did wear a poppy off-air, but objected to being told by his bosses that he had to wear one. I can actually respect that opinion - making poppy wearing compulsory defeats the purpose, in my opinion

Nigel,

Thank you for posting the response from Robert Lee of The Royal British Legion, it was clear, unambiguous and I also particularly liked....

"I am sorry to disappoint the pedantic impulse, but there is no right or wrong way to wear the poppy. It is a matter of personal choice. After all, the people we represent have fought, and in many cases made the ultimate sacrifice, to protect personal choice, so far be it from us to take freedoms away."

I also appreciated P.T. Clegg's response

"SIR – Character analysis of a poppy wearer – leaf upwards, optimist; leaf downwards, pessimist; leaf left or right, political leanings."

Best regards,

Ian.

I bought two poppies last week, for fear that only one would not last more than a few days, and here in France they are not for sale on every street corner. Sorry RBL but I find the ones they sell now to be flimsy and tacky, as well as lacking any obvious attachment. Bring back the old style models with the wire, say I.

cheers Martin B

Bought one with wire last week.

P'raps mine was an export version, then, though I didn't see any wire ones on sale during a quick trip to the UK last week

cheers Martin B

Oh no you mean i've wasted several hours adding to my list? damn...oh well I can cousins as well as sons and fathers now.

Mick

When did they introduce the leaf? Seems unnecessary to me.
David

David,

Interesting question, I'm sure someone on the Forum will know the answer to your question plus, perhaps, explain why it was introduced.

Ian.

The regular Poppies currently on offer have either the green plastic sprig for "old fashioned" pin fixing{or through lapel buttonhole} or a new introduction with an adhesive back,the large "silk" Poppy has the wire fixing



The leaf was introduced by public demand for a more three dimensional "effect" by gradual introduction in the late 1980s early 1990s [around the same time "Haig Fund" was gradually replaced by "Poppy Appeal" on the central black boss,as stocks ran out],agreed it is more costly {& obviously difficult for the RBL Poppy Factory makers who are disabled} to make leafed poppies than those without BUT in todays consumer society Leafed Poppies sell better [& consequently generally command higher donations;making them cost effective]!!

Quote from article:
"In 1920 the poppy was proclaimed the national emblem of remembrance in the US"

I didn't know that. Is it still the case?

I understand that there has been another "poppy incident" at a pub in Kent after a landlady was accused of refusing to allow poppies to be sold from a tray on her bar. The police were called after what were described as "threatening phone calls" from some of the villagers. Many of the customers are now boycotting the pub.

Wasn't the "original" poppy as produced at the time when the Haig Fund was "new" made of metal, pressed tin or somesuch, and didn't it have leaves? Therefore one might ask or be outraged at the time it was changed to paper and often without leaves! Disgrace!
I'm already on my third poppy - not that I mind donating again and again.
ttfn
Matt

I have transferred to the small enamel version in lieu of the paper version, no special do's and dont'ts for that i hope?

Ian.

I shall wear my New Zealand Flax one with pride.

Cheers Roger.

Just a wee technicality - poppies aren't "sold". People may take or receive a poppy and, if they choose, can give a donation.
As for the refusal; it happens over here in Canada, too. Pity.
Yours, Antony.

All the shops in my village have a long standing tradition of making poppies available. The post office did too until it changed hands a couple of years ago. The owner now cites religious reasons for not having poppies available. There has been something of drop in their trade during each 'Remebrancetide' since they took charge.

On the point of Jon Snow refusing to wear a poppy on air, I have to agree with Alan. Forced wearing of a poppy devalues it hugely. To be fair to Jon snow though, he refuses to wear any charity emblems, not just the poppy.

Cheers,

Nigel

Somebody once told me that the poppy should be worn with the leaf pointing towards 11 o'clock to signify the 11th hour, 11th day, of the 11th month. I don't know how true that is?

It always disheartens me when shopowners and pub landlords and others refuse to allow the presence of the poppy appeal on their premises, as has been outlined already on this thread, they nearly always do it for reasons that have nothing to do with the true meaning and purpose of the appeal. I could understand it if their reasons were for reasons of policy or principle relating to charities or prioritisation of charities to support, but they never seem to be one of the reasons given, as the rationale always seem to be based on a mistaken understanding of the work of the RBL and the purpose and impact of the appeal.

The Poppy appeal has nothing to do with religion or the support for any war. Such as shame that they cannot or, in some cases, deliberately choose not to see that.

Ian.

I also feel that wearing a poppy too far ahead of Remberance Sunday also devalues it's meaning somewhat. Many people in the media have been seen wearing poppies since the middle of October which is too early for my taste, but I do accept that they have a valuable role in publically promoting the Poppy Appeal. TV personalities seen on TV wearing their poppies does help remind viewers that it's that time of year again and I'm sure that it encourages people to go out and obtain their own.

On another issue (previously referred to), I can respect Jon Snow's personal decision (as a journalist) not to wear a poppy on air, however I nevertheless can't neglect the fact that as a direct decendant of one of the Great War's 'Donkey' Generals, his family have a particular legacy issue to deal with here that rightly demands a high level of sensitivity. I'm sure he's not uncaring, but to my way of thinking, he needs to reflect more on how his own conduct as a public figure could be interpretted (or misinterpretted), especially bearing in mind his lineage.

Regards,
mb

Ian Murphy says, quite rightly, that "The Poppy appeal has nothing to do with religion or the support for any war". Unfortunately, those who oppose the wearing of poppies as a symbol of remembrance (such as the landlady of the Windmill pub) do so because they see it in religious and/or nationalist terms.

I don't think we practise 'Sippenhaft' here ...

As for the 'landlady story', the last report I saw seemed uncertain as to whether the incident had actually taken place at all. Has that now been clarified?

Unfortunately many would agree with the practice, anyway another excuse to quote Horace .....

"For the sins of your fathers you, though guiltless, must suffer." - Horace, "Odes," III, 6.1.

Ian.

>>>"As for the 'landlady story', the last report I saw seemed uncertain as to whether the incident had actually taken place at all. Has that now been clarified?" <<<

It has certainly been clarified - Google "Windmill Pub Poppy Row".

I don't wish to put someone in the pillory because of their individual beliefs, religious or otherwise, but I feel that I need to add some clarity to the reasoning behind why our local PO does not have poppies available.

The particular tradition that the PO proprietors belong to does not observe any annual 'festivals' (for want of a better description). It is not that they have a particular problem with the poppy or the work of the RBL, indeed I understand that they have contributed to events that we have put on from time to time.

Cheers,

Nigel

You're for 'ome, 'Orace ...

I have now found later reports on this 'story', and it seems from the accounts of the state of trade in this establishment that the poppy tray is likely to earn more for the RBL elsewhere - and, since the collector describes delivering poppy trays to various other places in the village, it seems unlikely that anyone there will be unable to procure a poppy this year.

Obviously not in SW19 and (living as I do in Germany) thankfully not too much cause for it here either anymore!

I think this thread has been pretty fair to Jon Snow in putting his often poorly reported position on Poppies in its correct context.

I joined the Forum on Armistice Day last year - for most of us it's a pretty poignant time to be remembering the fallen of all wars and although there's obviously a diversity of custom and individual choice regarding the wearing of Poppies, what's common to all is that the Poppy remains such an enduring and powerfully strong symbol of our remembrance.

mb

As they only last about an hour with me before they go for a walk, Poppy wearing is just a dream!

He says, donning tin hat: I don’t know about ‘Poppy Fascism’; but I think a degree of ‘Remembrance Fascism’ exists.

Complaints about (lack of) poppy wearing, what is perceived as ‘disrespectful’ behaviour at cemeteries or ‘inappropriate’ observances at the Menin Gate on this forum could be thought this; as if some have a monopoly on the nature – what is right or wrong – of remembrance.

I remember daily – through my readings, researches, tours to F&F etc etc – and annually through subscriptions to the WFA, Cross & Cockade and the Fovant Badges Society. I have always donated to the RBL at this time of year; and have almost always worn the poppy.

However, it occurred to me a while ago that this was largely tokenistic behaviour. And while many emote like billy-o about sacrifice, one wonders if their wearing of the poppy is much the same – a once a year battlefield tour, donation and occasional donning of a symbol.

Obviously, there are thousands doing good volunteer work and/ or contributing financially to the various institutions – but my feeling is that there are many acts of remembrance that are simply emotional (sometimes melodramatic or even morbid; and sometimes almost competitively so) and ‘tokenistic’ rather than valid in terms of practicalities.

Admittedly, once a year is better than nothing and one wouldn’t hesitate to encourage someone to buy a poppy whereas they might do nothing.

After this thought occurred a few years ago – and at the risk of sounding a bit pious – I set up a monthly direct debit to the Army Benevolent Fund.

Since then, the need to wear a poppy – to display my remembrance – has become less important (although I still chuck in the tin). I probably still will, but it doesn’t feel quite so imperative as previously.

Do I need to show my remembrance to a pompous once-a-year po-faced brigade (who I have met and exist) – with their moans about disrespect or inappropriateness? Of course not.

If people want to judge me hastily when I'm not, for whatever reason (wrong coat, lost etc), wearing a poppy – for not meeting their requirements for conspicuous observance – then they can get stuffed actually.

Best wishes,

GT.

Alan.

I couldn't agree more. The blanket wearing of poppies on TV always drives me mad as it makes it obvious that people are not given a choice in the matter. It should be a personal decision especially as people can both remember and support the work of the RBL equally well without having to wear a poppy.

Neil

Enamel poppy lapel pins (or as tie pin) can be purchased from RBL Llanrwst (however it's pronounced) and are currently also being sold on a certain Internet auction site ......

The badges are metal and come with a rose clip for securing into position. The badges works well as lapel badges or tie pins and a pair can be used as cuff links. The badges are dispatched in Mail Lite bubble lined packets . Profits from these sales help with the poppy appeal each year. Last year Llanrwst British Legion, North Wales contributed over £5,000 to the Poppy Appeal mostly from donations and poppy appeal collections. Anyone wanting further information, or application forms to join the RBL can contact: M J Bucknall RBL Secretary Llanrwst e.mail address pickwicksnwales@aol.com

Like many others, the paper poppy never stays fixed for long. A classic case of built in obsolescence, as it keeps you buying more.
You can also obtain poppy cufflinks and obviously other items from the RBL Poppy Shop tag on the RBL site.
Just enough time to get them before Sunday, posties permitting!!

I completely agree with GT.

I've been a soldier and I've lost mates to conflict and war, so the poppy I wear, all year round, is important to me as it is my personal statement that Craig, Paddy, Scott, Gillie, Danny & Jim are not forgotten by me. Usually it is one of the small enamel badges which sits discretely on my lapel and goes unnoticed by most, and without comment by almost all..... but I know its there and why its there.
If other people don't wear a poppy, that is entirely a matter for themselves, and none of my concern. Having collected for the Poppy Appeal, and regularly filling 2 collecting cans in a couple of hours. Most donors would take a poppy, but the odd one would drop money in the can and politely decline the emblem. No harm in that at all, and I'm sure the person that gives the money but does not take the poppy has put more thought into it that the vast majority of those who donate their cash and wear the symbol.
I have seen too many things to be judgemental about why someone does or does not wear a poppy. If they do, they do, and 'good on 'em'. If they don't, they don't, and 'good on 'em'.
Remembrance goes on inside the head and heart of the individual, not on their lapel.

Cheers,

Nigel


ps. Just a note of caution regarding the sale of poppies on the internet. If you can, always be sure that you deal directly with a RBL branch. I'm not making any individual accusations, but there are always the charlatans out there wanting to make a fast buck from the unwitting giving money to a good cause.

I always start wearing a poppy the day before I go to Ypres, it also has to be a standard red one with no leaf, nothing flash, I dislike the poppies you sometimes see which are almost like a fashion statement, but maybe I'm be doing them a dis-service. I also burn candles in the windows on Finnish Independence day.

My biggest problem is what sum to donate, several years ago I hit upon the idea of using the same sum of money paid on my latest book purchase.

I noticed one of these on TV last night - apparently all proceed do go to the RBL. Should the poppy be a fashion statement?

Alan

http://www.kleshna.com/c-15-whats-hot.aspx

bumped into the Paris RBL secretary today, who was wearing a very fetching enamel poppy. she assured me they only get sent the standard plastic variety by head office for remembrance tide.

cheers Martin B

Regarding the leaf I don't know when it came onto vogue, it never has north of the border, we still have the leafless variety, although our is botanically correct I have worn both varieties over the years with equal pride.



John

I went to school with old Horace Odes. Kept goal for the Seconds ..... rubbish as I recall.

My mother in law phoned last night to tell us that there was a poppy design watch on one of the auction channels too. I'll try to keep an open mind until I see it.... but the idea doesn't appeal to me at all.

Cheers,

Nigel

Playing Blackadder's Lieutenant George and his mindless optomism card pretty strongly a la court room scene it could just be that everyone you see on the TV wearing one IS making an excellent personal descision to donate and wear a poppy?

Ok, and if not, at least someone has hopefully chucked in a big donation and bought a shed load - just in case your optomism is on low, or cynicism on full

ttfn
Matt

[quote name='MagicRat' date='Nov 3 2009, 02:06 PM' post='1297153']
Should the poppy be a fashion statement?
I have a China Poppy brooch which I bought from the W.F.A. commodoties store many years ago.
I wear this brooch when visiting Battlefield cemeteries and also for the May 8th and June 6th commemorations here in France.
I don't regard this as a 'fashion statement' just my personal mark of respect to the fallen.

Mind you!!, I did buy the matching earings and decided I looked a silly b-gger ,so have never worn them with the brooch
Probably this would have been a 'fashion statement' and a very bad one.
Gill

I wore my little enamel pin badge into work and have been inundated with requests from my colleagues to obtain them. I have distributed about 30 to the GP practice thus far.

Michelle

An interesting piece in today's Daily Telegraph (5th) by Bryony Gordon particularly her conclusion; even more interesting are the highly varied comments it has provoked.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columni...gotten-why.html

Personally I don't like the OTT 'specials' that some of the celebs and other 'VIPs' choose to wear. They might contribute more (that's if they're not supplied by the producers) but they'd be contributing even more if they gave the same amount and wore the standard 'everyman' version; can't help wondering if we'll see sequined or similar flamboyant versions on Strictly Come Dancing on Saturday night - I do hope not.

One unsual thing that I have seen this year, which I can't say I've seen before, is that at least one of the local police cars is sporting a poppy on its grill.

NigelS

Poppies. daffodils, cornflowers.... we will have to start a new gardening sub-forum, wheres that Alan Titmarsh bloke?

Mick

I loathe the leaves: when wearing a poppy, I always remove the leaf. I think they look downright silly, hanging at any angle. When distributing my poppy collection stuff, a couple of years ago I trialled mixing poppies with and poppies without in a few trays.

Without exception, the non-leaf variety had hardly been touched.

Why on earth did the RBL start them? It's OK to say public demand, but was there a demand before trying them?