SS Tummel a Hull registered cargo ship of 531 gt. was sunk by a mine on 24 February 1916, 7 miles south of the Kentish Knock light while on a voyage from Grimsby to Treport with coal. Mine laid by UC 5 (Ulrich Mohrbutter) on 9 February 1916.

Tummel has caught my attention three times last week in one way or another. The latest was in the newspaper cuttings posted by chrisharley9 in the SS DIDO topic.
link
Earlier I had been sharing some family history with my eldest granddaughter for a project she is doing, which included details of a family member lost in the 1930s off the Grimsby trawler River Tummel and photos of the memorial boards in The Fisherman’s and Seaman’s Memorial Chapel, Central Hall, Grimsby, where I noticed only four of SS Tummel’s crew that were lost are recorded: T.D. TEANBY, A. WRAY, W. MALE and M. ANDERSON probably because that was where they signed on and perhaps also had Grimsby connections. - see attached image:
Click to view attachment
While most sources record nine casualties, on the CWGC site I could only find eight. W MALE was not one of them but while searching for him with various search criteria I found a ninth: McCARTHY Albert (22) Mate, S.S. Tunnel (Hull) - I’ve added the vessel’s mis-spelt name to a list of errors to be reported to the CWGC.
I have been unable to find W. MALE and think he could be another of the five survivors mentioned in the newspaper report, who perhaps died later of injuries.
So I was wondering if anyone has Tummel’s crew list, or names of the reported survivors, or suggestions where to look next?

Cheers, Terry

Terry,

NA has:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...;accessmethod=0

Memorial University Newfoundland has:
1913, 14 Crew Lists:
http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombine...icial_No=133417

Kath.

Terry

Im going with your died of wounds theory

William R Male aged 47 DC ref Q1 1916 Grimsby 7a 857

Should have some more info later

All The Best

Chris

Chris,

Great stuff, many thanks, I'll wait for more info but I can get the DC from the local office if or when required.

Kath - thanks for the links.

Cheers, Terry

Terry

hang slack on the DC as IFCP may be able to deal with it - have already e mailed the NE Lincs archives office who have already done me a few favours

Chris

Hi Terry

These are from my database:

ANDERSON, M. Able Seaman MM SS Tummel (Hull) killed 24.2.16
ATKINSON, Joseph William Chief Engineer MM SS Tummel (Hull) killed 24.2.16
BUTTERILL, Arundell Cook &, Steward MM SS Tummel (Hull) killed 24.2.16
NOBLE, Walter James Able Seaman MM SS Tummel (Hull) killed 24.2.16
SHIELDS, William Assistant Engineer MM SS Tummel (Hull) killed 24.2.16
SIGMUNDSEN, Grimur Able Seaman MM SS Tummel (Hull) killed 24.2.16
TEANBY, Tom Derbon Fireman MM SS Tummel (Hull) killed 24.2.16
WRAY, A. Fireman MM SS Tummel (Hull) killed 24.2.16

Cheers Ron

Chris - I'm hoping to spend some time there this week - was fully involved with grand children last week, (half term here & working parents !).

Ron - You can add McCarthy as in my first post - his details on the CWGC site are wrong (Tunnel instead of Tummel !).

Cheers, Terry

Terry

got this answer from the archives this afternoon

William Robert Male, 47, previously of 19 Buller Street died on 8th March 1916 and was buried in the following plot on 14th March 1916

Section - 34
Row - H
Grave - 26

The Informant was W.S.Beales and W.H.Smedley was the Officiating Minister

Now all we have got to do is prove that he died of wounds

Chris

Sorry Scartho Road

If you input 24/02/1916 on Geoff's you get 9, but one is under SS Tunnel?

Cheers Mike

Chris - Thanks Shall I, or hand it to IFC project. I'm easy either way.


Mike, I did spell that out in my (albeit long winded), first post.

Cheers, Terry.

p.s. Chris another two possibles to follow shortly.

Sorry Terry. You did indeed, I must digest all info, before posting

Mike

Thanks Terry

It was a typo in my database "TUMINAL". Thanks for pointing it out, I've altered it now

Cheers Ron

Terry

any chance of getting a photo of the grave please

Chris

Chris - I'll have a look tomorrow, weather permitting.

Cheers, Terry

If William R Male died later, would that mean that he fell foul of the strict criteria that CWGC were given for recording Mercantile Marine deaths?

Tom Teanby - death registered at Greenwich

William Shields - death registered at Greenwich

so it looks like we have found the 2 who died of wounds who are mentioned in the Times article

All The Best

Chris

Not sure; what is your take on it

SHIELDS, William Assistant Engineer MM SS Tummel (Hull) killed 24.2.16

His grave has been found at Hull Western Cemetery

Chris,

If he died of wounds shortly later then he would qualify. However, if it was some time later then there might be an argument. Only the DC would sort that one out.

P.S. got chance to look at the grave in Barrow Cemetery you told me about - no other headshones (as shown in photo below). What do you reckon - new headstone with two names or a new headstone close by?

Best wishes.

Andy.

Andy

thanks for that; like you say the DC will sort it out

Re the Barrow headstones I really dont know; will have to ask Terry his opinion; also thanks very much

Chris

Chris - Checked the cemetery plot thoroughly today with good cross references from the middle section of the CWGC main plot (Section 42) and a few war graves scattered in section 34 which is next to 42. Most of the CWGC headstones have the grave reference on the back at ground level, made this easier than some cemetery searches I've done. I'm 99% certain I found the right location but no sign that any sort of grave marker has ever been there for W. Male.

Andy & per ardua, Thanks for your input - evidence so far indicates William died thirteen days after the mining.

Cheers, Terry

Terry

thanks for checking the grave

Name: TEANBY, TOM DERBON
Initials: T D
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Fireman
Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine
Unit Text: S.S. "Tummel" (Hull)
Age: 30
Date of Death: 24/02/1916
Additional information: Son of Mary E. Teanby, and the late William Stock Teanby; husband of Florence Gertrude Teanby (nee Pearson), of 9, Church St., Grimsby. Born at Grimsby.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

Grave found
Grimsby Scartho Road
Section - 42
Row - H
Grave - 26

I have found the criteria for inclusion that is applied to the Mercantile Marine at the time both harsh and confusing.

I collected William's death certificate today - some you win and some...........

His death was caused by one of the potential hazards of his job and not uncommon, but not related to the additional hazards of the war. The minefields, drifting mines, enemy submarines and surface ships, collisions and strandings caused by navigation lights blacked out on ship and shore. His name is for reasons unknown included on a fisherman’s memorial with some lost on another ship but remains the only place he is remembered.

Thanks to all who viewed or contributed to this topic. The research continues.

Cheers, Terry

Terry

sadly sometimes that is the way it goes - anyway like you say he is remembered

Chris

Terry,

I'm interested in your list of mercantile marine causes of death due to wartime conditions. Is this a list you have compiled yourself or have you copied it from somewhere.

From another thread Terry Denham provided this is the criteria: WW1 - "Where death was caused by the increased risks due to war conditions and is confirmed by the Registrar General of Seamen and Shipping"
Qualifying dates - 04.08.14 to 11.11.18 inclusive (including those dying of injuries originating during this period who died up to 31.08.21)


My reason for asking is that some time ago I came across a local man who had died (along with quite a few others of the crew by the sound of it) when his ship was in collision with another ship - probably while running without lights due to security restrictions in Liverpool Bay. It's always struck me that one of the cardinal maritime rules is to show a light and, if there hadn't been a blackout in place, the colision probably wouldn't have happened..............and those men wouldn't have lost their lives. Are they commemorated by CWGC? Of course not.

Best wishes.

Andy.