The problem with this script, as I think Dragon has discovered is that it does indeed fall into the time when Turkish was written in Arab script. Modern Arabs can't read it, Turks can't and it's not Syrian dialect. Neither is it "High Arabic" which is used in script. I've had a lot of problems with this writing in the past and usually send it to friends in Penn sate Uni. I'll forward this, but don't hild your breath for q quick answer.

Tom

We are also mad with curiosity but Dragon/Gwyn did say that it may take a while for her friends to come back with an answer and looking at what Gwyn has said to me previously and what Telaw said above - it is not an easy thing to translate. I have tried for years and years to get a translation, as has my mother before me so a few weeks won't make any difference - I just hope that I am able to get it translated because it really is maddening not to be able to understand it!

Thanks for your interest!

Sue

..

I have deleted or edited most of my posts in this thread.

The main reason for this is the potential sensitivity of the political situation at the moment.

The seond reason is that I was unable to help so my posts have no longer any relevance.

Gwyn

looks like you;re the Last Cahnce saloon, Tom! Fingers crossed but breathing normally!
Marina

Matt

A little progress on yours. The front is a "Weakness and Illness report" to be filled in on the reverse. The language is difficult to decipher as it's that awful Turk-Arabic cross. Part of the reverse is translated though my wife isn't 100% sure and asks not to be quoted.

Tom

Thanks Tom and thanks to your wife for the translation.

The piece of paper has always been in my Grandads collection of momentos and it nice to know what it is about. Must have obtained it on his trips to the many hospitals.

[quote name='Swni' date='Jul 22 2004, 07:05 AM' post='131298']
Oh Gwyn

I hadn't thought of that!!

I DO hope not (giggle) after all the trouble you've gone to and all the anticipation!!

Sue
[/

Hi,
I am not sure if Im a bit late for this therad but if any of you have any Ottoman documents and can deliver a copy to me Ill do my best to get them translated (please not a whole book!)
regards

Yes, written Ottoman Turkish is a pill. Modern Turkish may be the most difficult major language in the world, certainly as a spoken language. Ottoman Turkish was much more complex; for example, one, especially someone who thought themselves educated, would jam in Arabic and Persian (Iranian) poetry, while there were lots of words in these languages in even simpler Turkish. (E.g., in Modern Turkish, when a person leaves another, the expression that the person leaving is basically Arabic, stating "I am placing myself in the hands of Allah" ; the person being left responds in Turkish, basically saying: "Go happily, go happily!" Sort of a verbal "Happy face".

I have identified about ten alphabets that Turkish has been written in in the last 800 years. Arabic, used for several hundred years, is not well suited for the much more complex Turkish; for example, I think that Turkish has eight vowels, while the Arabic alphabet has, I believe, only three vowel forms.

I am certainly not an expert here, only know a few words of Turkish, not much more Arabic, but most of the above is correct, I think. Mention was made above of the gentleman who translated the diary of the Turkish lieutenant from Ottoman Turkish to Modern Turkish; supposedly it took the owner of the diary a long time to find the gentleman to do the transliteration/translation.

Also, we cannot be sure that Ottoman Turkish Arabic script is the same as Arabic Arabic script.In fact I really doubt it. First of all, Ottoman Turkish, as I mentioned, being quite different and more complex , probably required modification to the alphabet. Russian and Serbian are relatively similar, compared to Ottoman Turkish vs. Arabic, but the Serbian Cyrillic and the Russian Cyrillic alphabets are similar but not the same.

Although the two estimates of Turkish literacy in WW I that I have seen were 3% and 5%, due in part to the great complexity of Ottoman Turkish, as per above, and the lack of universal education, the Turks in Ottoman times were maniacal record keepers. A German commander complained that his company commanders were, in the front lines, expected to produce on a regular basis 146 different reports. As almost no enlisted men, like sergeants, were literate, these reports could generally not be kept by the company sergeant-major/first sergeant, for example. (In the German Army the equivilant, the Feldwebel, did or was responsible for 95% of this type of work, I think.)

I am running my mouth here, but I think I have given an idea of the complexities in this area.

Bob Lembke