The wonderful personal messages that one chances across in CWGC cemeteries never fail to touch the heart. Every visit throws up a number that stay in the mind.

My last trip produced the following that brought me up short and put a lump in my throat.

A LITTLE CROSS OF BRONZE
THE CROSS HE WON
BUT NEVER WORE
MY SON


I'll think of these words when I next handle a 1914 or 1915 Star.

An absolute heartbreaker!

I always think of the inscription on my g-grandfather's grave - which I was entirely ignorant of until I visited Corbie

'Sadly missed by wife and children'

one of whom was my grandfather Charlie - five years old when his father died.

These inscriptions are very precious - does the CWGC have a record of them all??

Simon

I presume they must have a central record of them just to ensure that they replace the inscription when the stone is replaced. Let's hope they never abandon the inscriptions for reasons of economy !

It is perhaps appropriate that they are not available on a database - but only to the visitor to the graveyard as a sort of personal and intimate whisper from the past.

The one which always brings a lump to my throat is:
'An Unknown Soldier of the Great War'

Ian

Very beautiful sentiments Ian!

Simon

Of course , you are absolutely right about that one , Ian. All those men and lads denied a last message from Mums , wives and loved ones. I suppose every one of these messages that we benefit from today is for them too.

I have mentioned some favorites before like Sniper Bill at Embarkation Pier, Gallipoli and Trooper Johnson? same place.
FORGET ABOUT ME
SAVE SERJEANT DEATON.
One I have not personally seen:
HE WOULD GIVE HIS DINNER
TO A HUNGRY DOG
AND DO WITHOUT HIMSELF

CWGC do indeed have a central record of all inscriptions for obvious purposes - replaced of headstones when necessary.

These inscription records are not normally available to the public.

I've a wonderful book by John Laffin - AIF Epitaphs of World War 1.
I would fail to see anyone not being moved by the contents of this book.

I AM PROUD AND ALSO SORRY
FOR MY BRAVE BABY
HIS LOVING FATHER

HE STANDS BY MY SIDE
AND WHISPERS
DEAR MOTHER
DEATH CANNOT DIVIDE

OH FOR A TOUCH
OF A VANISHED HAND
AND THE SOUND OF
A VOICE THAT IS STILL

Family inscriptions apart, I find headstones paid for by the dead soldier's colleagues very touching.

This one is in the CWGC plot at Foster Road Cemetery, Bedford.

I always liked the one in Zillebeke Churchyard :

"Life is a city of crooked streets,
death is the market place,
where all men meet" .


Although I always find the short ,personal message type quite heart-wrenching :

"In loving memory of Dear Daddy, from Maisie" . (Pte.C.Scaplehorn, Bailleul)

These always make me think.

Dave.

"He is not dead, for such a man as my husband was can never die."

Villers Bretonneux

Several:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~aur/lndividuals/epitaphs.htm

But my current favourite is:

Private L. McDonnall, Royal Iniskilling Fusiliers
died 1 July 1916, age 24
Ancre British Cemetery
At our fireside
sad and lonely
the children I do tell
how their noble father fell.

I agree with your sentiments Ian, but surely the point about the CWGC headstones is that, unique amongst all the nations, they DON'T say 'Unknown'. They say 'KNOWN...Unto God'. As I always tell my pupils on our tours that's what comes of employing a genius (Rudyard Kipling) to devise your wording for you.
Sometimes the inscriptions bring you up short. In 1998 on our annual school tour I included a visit, very much as an afterthought, to the grave of a former pupil, Lt Joseph Morris, at Pommereuil Cemetery, near Le Cateau. As we got to the grave we saw that the inscription was the school motto 'Sanctas Clavis Fores Aperit' which we have never seen anywhere before or since. There wasn't a dry eye in the place.
Incidentally did people have to pay for the inscriptions?

From memory WW1 US say Here rests in honored glory an American soldier known only to God.

Personally I like the simple inscriptions that really meant something to somebody ... such as "Ever in my thoughts my darling boy. Mother" - Gunner CW Brunsden (gravestone states Brunsdem) at Lijssenthoek.

Having said that gravestone of Private DC Thomson - 32/AIF, at Heily Station reads "The weed and wild flower creepeth round a lone and silent bed" is both intriguing and poignant!!

Mark, Quoting from John Laffin book - AIF Epitaphs of World War 1:

...They were told that the maximum number of letters and letter spaces allowed was 66 and the charge was three and a half pence per letter. Most families paid the charge though there was much grumbling at the time that the soldiers had already paid it many times over with their blood. the charge appears not to have been enforced.

Ronnie.

Mark,

Finding that school motto inscription must have been staggering - to think it had been patiently waiting all those years for that moment when it so totally bridged that yawning gap in time and brought those generations of young people together - wonderful.

Thanks are due to all those folk who paid their threepence halfpenny per letter and richly invested for us all in perpetuity.

Terry,

I do agree with Ian, in that the inscriptions are clearly designed for the visitor, and not appropriate necessarily for the web site browser.

However, with that said, living in far off Canada, the opportunity for me of walking these hallowed grounds is remote at best. Are these epitaphs available to someone through a certain inquiry method at the CWGC, or is this off bounds?

Thanks in advance.
How lucky all you UK folks are being so close to battlefields!!!

"Incidentally did people have to pay for the inscriptions?"

Terry will be able to elaborate further to the following:

Relatives were allowed to choose a personal inscription not to exceed sixty-six letters, the space between two words counting as one letter.

It was initially decided to charge for inscriptions, as it was felt that by paying, relatives would have more of a personal stake in the grave. Threepence half penny in old money was charged, with a maximum charge of £1.

New Zealand refused to have personal inscriptions on headstones in both world wars. The Canadian govenment paid on behalf of the relatives of their servicemen.

The charge was then made voluntary, but many poor families had already been deterred. The voluntary payment after WWII was limited to 7/6d, then raised to £1 again, but has finally been allowed to lapse.

Regards
Marc

David,

I certainly sympathise with you guys away over there. I get withdrawal symptoms after about 4 weeks following a trip over there !

I certainly don't think the inscriptions are available via the internet or whether there are plans to make them so. No doubt Terry may know but may be bound by confidentiality at the moment re. the developments planned for the CWGC website. I suppose there is no reason why they should not be available but it would lift the veil on them perhaps a bit too much. Only my opinion , of course.

One man wrote his own epitaph put on his Special Memorial Stone by his Parents. Taken from one of his poems " An English Soldier"

"He fell: but yielded not his English Soul:
That lives out there beneath the Battle's Roll"

Sgt., John William Streets, York & Lancs. K.I.A. 1 July 1916.
Euston Road Cemetery.
Cliff. Hobson.

Some curious, as well as touching ones; the following I saw in Maroc British Cemetery some years ago (I won't name the soldier concerned):

He died a sinner

There are no plans to make the PIs available on the CWGC web site to my knowledge. The PIs do not appear in the Debt of Honour database anyway.

I do not see why CWGC would not supply information on any specific PIs to an enquirer but cannot see them making their own internal working documents available to the public.

I think it is a pity that the original WW1 Final Verification Forms upon which the n-o-k requested their PIs (if any) were burnt in the early 1970s. They could have provided much info even if we had to wait for them to end up at the PRO/NA. The WW2 forms do still exist.

The charge for PIs in the early days is the cause of so many WW1 stones not having a PI - many could not afford the charge thus backing up the NZ stance. You will notice that there are far more (and longer) PIs on WW2 headstones as the charge had been allowed to lapse.

CWGC will still add a PI to a headstone if requested by a close relative provided that one had not previously been refused. Each application is taken on its merit.

I'm wracking my brains about the World War One American 'unknown' (or rather 'known' ) inscription. I'm ashamed to say that it's about 15 years since I've been to an American World War One cemetery (Bony). I'm pretty sure that the World War II headstones have 'Unknown' on them. When did they decide to change? And did they adopt the 'Known Unto God' formula before or after the IWGC?

with regard to odd inscriptions one I saw - now where was it? - simply had the soldier's address where normally would be an inscription. It made me wonder whether his next of kin really wanted it there or it had been some sort of administrative error!

It's ...

Here rests in honored Glory an American Soldier. Known but to God .

On WW2 graves ,this has been changed to...

Here rests in honored Glory a comrade in arms. Known but to God .


This (according to the ABMC) was to show the tri-service nature of the second war.

Dave.

Mark.

The IWGC was the first to use the "known unto God" formula. The ABMC taking over the care of (8)US cemeteries in France and Belgium only in 1934 (even though it had been established by congress in March 1923). It was then that the landscaping into the cemeteries we know today began.

Dave.

Home addresses are a fairly common inscription - usually with son of Mr and Mrs ---- of == St etc.

Hi David B:

There are many WW1 CWGC headstone in Canadian cemeteries. There is a project that's been underway for several years now (The Maple Leaf Legacy Project) to photograph all the CWGC headstones of Canadians who died in both World Wars. As you may know, the graves of these men (and women) are located all over the world. The photos will be available for people to view on the Internet, as well as pictures of the cemeteries where they rest. I don't know where you live in Canada, but you may want to become involved in the MLLP and and photograph headstones in your area. Check out:
http://www.mapleleaflegacy.ca

Two inscriptions on local CWGC headstones (WW1) that I photographed last week read:

My Dearest Eddie
Rest In Peace

and

He Answered The Call

Garth

To confirm what I said in an earlier posting.....

This morning I had a concersation with CWGC about Personal Inscriptions. Currently these are not held on any computer but are still on paper in each individual casualty file.

There are tentative discussions at the moment concerning a project to computerise these records but it will be a veeeeerrrry long term operation - if it happens! Only then could the subject of making them freely available to the public be addressed.

If anyone is interested, I have a record of every Personal Inscription on all 3,787 war graves in Sussex - both CWGC headstones and private memorials.

Hi Terry:

To get a handle on the size of an inscription database project, do you have any idea what percentage of CWGC headstones have personal inscriptions engraved on them? Also, how many people are working on the project updating the CWGC web site? Are any volunteers? Thanks.

Garth

I have no definite info on how many headstones have PIs but (taking both wars together) as a guess......

You have to eliminate all the 'Unknown' headstones, those on memorials to the missing and those with private memorials. Of the remaining named CWGC headstones, I would guess that 50% have PIs.

Don't get excited... There is no real project as such - only general discussion at the moment. There is unlikely to be any movement in the near future (if ever) due to budget restrictions. Most of CWGC's cash goes on upkeep of cemeteries & memorials.

There are no volunteers working on the CWGC website - just staff and professional IT people plus the three 'outsiders' (including myself) asked to test drive the end results and give advice.

A recall reading a touching epitaph in Laffin's book, which was from the mother of an Australian soldier upset due to the distance she was from her son's grave, knowing she would never be able to travel to see it.
The epitaph was asking if some Mother who was passing her son's grave could pray over it as she would never be able to.

Laffin's book makes many examples of 'the tyranny of distance' making it into the Australian epitaphs.

Regards
Andrew

Not a gravestone inscription, but worth mentioning is the following In Memoriam notice for William Bruce 2/1 Bucks Battalion.

" How went the day? We died and never knew, but - well or ill - England, we died for you."

One that I read last week, which I found quite moving, at Rocquigny-Equancourt Road British Cemetery:

HIS FACE WAS A RAY OF SUNSHINE AMONGST SO MANY DARK CLOUDS
AN EXTRACT FROM A CHUMS LETTER.

Mutley,
I wonder if by any chance you saw the two wreaths which we laid at Rocquigny-Equancourt in October. Both of our Bury Grammar School boys who died at Cambrai are buried there. I suspect that they will probably have been removed by now,
Mark Hone

Mark
Sorry I didn't see your two wreaths, as you say I expect they have been removed. The cemetery was (as usual) very neat and tidy and very peaceful at 2130 hrs with the light just starting to fade. A Credit to the CWGC gardeners.

"I knew his worth, I loved him"- a really touching tribute from a wife to a lost husband. To be found at Auchonvillers. There was also a genrerous one that I saw in Railway Hollow- something about "France being a grand country and worth fighting for". I'm misquoting here- perhaps somebody on the board knows the full and correct inscription?

Mark

An enquiry some little while ago discovered that the CWGC will advise the inscription on a stone (or the lack of it) for a small charge (£2 as I recall).

A "complete" list of Aus & NZ inscriptions on Gallipoli can be found at

http://www.anzacs.org/

though on checking I found one which was not listed (having visited, I know what it says).

The site also adds:

New Zealand soldiers normally did not have epitaphs engraved on their headstones, as the New Zealand government of the time did not offer this option to the families of its soldiers, but in the case of 'Special memorials', a standard epitaph was inscribed. This was 'Their Glory Shall Not Be Blotted Out'

Which perhaps answers another query!

Perhaps someone would like to start listing the Western Front Inscriptions!!!!



Martin

Mark A ... just for yr info I have come across the one about France being well worth fighting/dying for a couple fo times. I wonder if it was on the list of suggested inscriptions.

My 'favourite' is a fairly famous one (438680 Corporal Joseph Young 52nd Bn. Canadian Infantry, 5th March 1919 Age 36) in Bodelwyddan near the old Kinmel Camp in North Wales, inscribed in relation to a particular event. However I feel it just about sums it all up really:

SOME TIME
SOME TIME
WE'LL UNDERSTAND

The only Australian stone that I have come across in Isleworth Cemetery is that of Private B.G. Buckland MM who was with the 46th Bn. AIF, 25th October 1918 Age 27. His inscription reads: Never Forgotten Dear Ben

In the same cemetery I was surprised to see a military style stone for Pte. George Henry A. Price Middlesex Reg 19th March 1916 which also carries details for his mother who died Oct.28th 1923. I didn't realise that civilians could be commemorated on military stones.

Another inscription that I came across in a Cemetery in South Wales was that of Pte. T.R.(Bertie) Martin Kings Own Yorkshire LI 29th Sep 1918.
What Is Your Life
It Is Even A Vapour

When I saw Pte Martin's grave it was beautifully tended and covered with primroses.

Signals-

That's really interesting. I wonder if it was on the list of suggestions. In fact I didn't realize there was a list of suggested inscriptions (maybe I haven't read this thread properly). Then again, thinking about it, you do come across a lot of the same ones "At the going down of the sun..." etc. time and again.

In the case of Railway Hollow I read or was told that it was from a letter he'd written home. Maybe not!

Mark

I think one executed soldier's headstone reads:

' SHOT AT DAWN
ONE OF THE FIRST TO ENLIST
A WORTHY SON OF HIS FATHER'

It's mentioned in the guidbook 'unquiet graves' by J. Putkowski and Piet Chielens I believe.

Bert.

Myrtle

The inscription to which you refer in Isleworth will be on a privately owned official war grave. CWGC headstones were placed on private graves if the
n-o-k so wished.

Due to its status as a private grave, further family burials could take place in the same grave. This is not permitted in CWGC cemeteries/plots. The post-war inscription is permitted in these circumstances but is paid for by the n-o-k.

The 'Shot At Dawn' inscription is on the grave of Private Albert Ingham, 18th Manchesters at Bailleulmont, north of the Somme. He is one of three men of the same battlaion executed at the end of 1916 and buried there. The inscription was requested by his father and there was allegedly some controversy before it was accepted. Perhaps a Pal knows more details about the dispute.

Terry

Thank you for the explanation regarding Pte. Price's stone. Would there have been a choice of type of stone used in the installation of private military shaped stones ? I have noticed granite used for CWGC stones in a Sheffield Church Yard.

There was no choice of stone for the n-o-k when it came to official CWGC headstones. In the instance you mention, it is the grave that is private not the headstone.

However, CWGC do use a variety of different stones for their memorials apart from the very common Portland Stone. Granite and slate are common in some areas of the UK and overseas. You can occasionally see both Portland and other types of stone in the same cemetery in the UK.

You can also see red and green sandstone. The old Portland headstones are gradually being replaced with Botticino limestone which has a marble effect.

A couple of examples which I have come across recently where simplicity hits the right note in particularly moving and poignant ways

Private J.C. Ridley, P.W.O. Civil Service Rifles, Age 19
"Daddy Goodnight"

and

Rifleman Mitchel J. Mulholland, London Irish Rifles, Age 21
"France-Macedonia-Palestine
My Boy
Mother, Jersey City, U.S.A."