I have been asked whether I know anything about the SF's involvement in executions carried out at Kilmainham Gaol.

I don't.

Do you?

No but I know the 2nd North Midland Division (59th) were there which may have included a few SF's

From LLT we have the following that were in ireland at this time:

2/5th Bn, the Sherwood Foresters (joined October 1914, left as a cadre June 1918)

2/6th Bn, the Sherwood Foresters (joined September 1914, left as a cadre May 1918)

2/7th (Robin Hood) Bn, the Sherwood Foresters (joined September 1914, absorbed by 1/7th Bn February 1918)

2/8th Bn, the Sherwood Foresters (joined September 1914, disbanded February 1918)



Roop

Roop, thanks for the quick response. I should have clarified this question more clearly.

I know that the 2/5th, 2/6th, 2/7th and 2/8th battalions were heavily involved in actions around Mount Street on 26 April 1916, but what next? I have no information at all about the events of the following days and weeks and, to be honest, I wasn't aware that they had been involved in providing firing squads for some of the subsequent executions. I suppose what I'm asking is:

i) were they involved in the executions?
ii) if so, which executions and when?

Andrew, Unfortunately I have no further detail. My grandfather was there at that time with the 2/6th North Staffs but no details remain of events. Be interested if anything crops up.

Roop

Ditto! Thanks anyway.

The official announcements make no mention of the troops involved and due to the nature of executions I doubt very much if any record was kept.

Steve

I was told by someone, who has researched this subject, that the SFs were involved in the executions. I also vaguely recall him telling me that most of the men involved came from Chesterfield. I am seeing him in a couple of weeks so I will ask him for more details.

Regards,
AGWR

14 people were executed by firing squad at Kilmainham in May 1916 and one more in Cork as a result of the Easter Rising. At Kilmainham, this occurred on five separate days between 3rd and 12th May.

As a firing squad probably consisted of a dozen men, this means that a maximum of sixty were involved at Kilmainham, not necessarily all from the same battalion.

I bet few records were kept.

Executed:

Tom Clarke
Wednesday 3rd May

Thomas MacDonagh
Wednesday 3rd May

Padraic Pearse
Wednesday 3rd May

Joseph Mary Plunkett
Thursday 4th May

William Pearse
Thursday 4th May

Ned Daly
Thursday 4th May

Michael O'Hanrahan
Thursday 4th May

John MacBride
Friday 5th May

Eamonn Ceannt
Monday 8th May

Michael Mallin
Monday 8th May

Conn Colbert
Monday 8th May

Sean Heuston
Monday 8th May

Thomas Kent (in Cork)
Tuesday 9th May

Sean MacDiarmada
Friday 12th May

James Connolly
Friday 12th May

Angie,
That's very helpful information and gets me up and running - so thanks.

AGWR,
Brilliant. I look forward to anything you can discover. If Chesterfield is the origin of many men then we are probably talking about firing squads selected from the 2/6th.

Glosters,
I suspect the same.

******

Excellent thus far, but if anyone else has anything to offer please add it!

there was a book printed in 1961 called "the 2/6th sherwood foresters part in the defeat of the rebels in 1916" a small book of 32 pages by wilfred edmonds ltd of Chesterfield Turner Donovan had a copy in cat. 65 regards John

John, That's a great tip off. I hadn't heard of that one, but armed with that title I've now got these details:

* Edmunds, Gerald James. The Irish rebellion; the 2/6th Sherwood Foresters' part in the defeat of the rebels in 1916; their early training. Chesterfield : pritned by Wilfred Edmunds Ltd., 1960.

* Edmunds, Gerald James. The Irish Rebellion : the 2/6th Sherwood Foresters part in the defeat of the rebels in 1916; their early training. [new ed.] [Derby] : Derbyshire Times, 1965.

You say "Turner Donovan had a copy in cat. 65". Could you expand on that? Who / what is Turner Donovan?

I don't suppose there's a pal out there with a copy?

Sorry, I'm being dumb. Of course you are referring to Turner Donovan Military Books.

Doh!

Andrew,

I read the history of the 2/5th quite a long time ago, but cannot remember the exact details it did mention that the prisoners who were taken were only too willing to co-operate and that due justice was taken. Or words to that effect, at the time it had me reading between the lines re. the co-operation and the justice.

Cliff.

Thanks Cliff - every idea is welcome.

Hello Andrew,
According to The Easter Risingby Michael Foy and Brian Barton, the firing squad was "provided by the 59th Division" and was commanded, for the first three executions at least, by Major H Heathcote.

There's some additional info. in There's a Devil in the Drum, but I'm not sure if it identifies the battalion or Regiment. I'll have a look tonight.

Regards,

Liam.

A company 2nd/8th was caught out in the open. They were mostly young soldiers if I am not mistaken about five were wounded in just the one action. One of the New Balderton lads was there, Albert Edward Wood he later died from bullet wounds on 17/3/16.

Steve.

Liam - that's interesting. If you can check I would be grateful.

Yellow - you might find this of interest on my website: http://www.derbyshirelads.uwclub.net/Sherw..._casualties.htm

Hello Andrew,
I'm afraid there's no more information in There's a Devil in the Drum, but there is this snippet:

One day Jim introduced me to a natty little English sergeant, a pert, talkative chap with waxed moustaches. Jim, following his usual habit, merely said: ' This chap had something to do with your countrymen in the rebellion last year.' I cocked my ears, and the smart little sergeant spoke: 'Yes, I was there. As a matter of fact I had the job of seeing them off.' My heart pounded. Sickeningly I looked at the Irish harp on his cap badge, and I stared bitterly at his beady brown eyes.

He was restless, and wanted to talk. Knowing my sympathies by hearsay, he had come to me somehow like a man coming back to the scene of some dountful act to attempt reconciliation. He was the first of a number of unhappy Englishmen who tried, and tried vainly, to square their acts against Ireland with me.

My shocked silence was taken for attention, and he talked on while we walked along one side of the barrack square. Jim had politely disappeared.

This sergeant of the firing squad told me of the executions following Easter week. He described in detail the way the leaders met their death. I cannot remember them all because my blood was racing.

McBride evoked the greatest admiration. He refused to be blinfolded. He smiled at his nervous executioners, and told them he had looked down the wrong end of the barrels of rifles before. McBride left a terrific impression of contemptuous invincibility. He was a great man. The sergeant did not like that job.

He then told of young Plunkett, whose fate was to me the most tragic of the lot, because the others gave the impression of being seasoned soldiers, at any rate in mind, and Plunkett seemed so young and fragile. The sergeant stopped and took some rosary beads from his pocket. 'See these. They are his. Souvenir. Want 'em?'

I touched them for a reason he would never understand, and said: 'No. Keep the beads. I hope they will do you good,' but really I did not hope that, because mentally I was wishing him and his like non-existent. He was astonished at my refusal, and hurt because I also refused to drink with him.

A few pages on he tells another interesting little story linked to the Rising:

....among them were certain Reserve officers who had fought against the rebels at Dublin in 1916. One of these latter was very gloomy because his orders for the front had come at last, and he complained that he, at any rate, had no hope of returning alive from France, because if the Germans did not get him, some southern Irishman might shoot him down surreptitiously in battle for the part he had played at Dublin. By some curious trick of fate he was killed in his first action. He left the British front trenches to attack with his men, but did not arrive at the German front line, and his body was not recovered. Already the Sinn Feiners were earning a name for never forgetting.

I confess I was rather indifferent to this officer's fate, because he was an Irishman and should have not fought against his own people. His end impressed me because I went over the top on the left of his company at the same time, and afterwards other officers confirmed that he had confessed to his old fear before advancing

Regards,

Liam.

Liam,

Thanks for taking the trouble to check this and type it out. It's a fascinating read but a shame that there's no clue as to which regiment(s) were involved.

There is a new link to a story about the Forresters in Ireland on the official website, have a look at http://www.wfrmuseum.org.uk/rhr_Ireland.htm

In addition I have a report made by an officer of the Forresters describing in detail how the executions were carried out. No question arises. It was the Sherwood Forresters who were involved and the report quotes how much they appreciated the chance to avenge their comrades deaths at Mount St.

I shall dig the report out and post it on the site.

QUOTE (Andrew Hesketh @ Nov 16 2005, 11:11 AM)

Liam,

Thanks for taking the trouble to check this and type it out. It's a fascinating read but a shame that there's no clue as to which regiment(s) were involved.

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Hi Andrew

It does say in the History of the 2/6th Battalion:-

"One the morning of Tuesday three of the Sinn Fein leaders, TJ Clarke, PH Pearse and T McDonagh, who had been tried by Court Martial and condemmed to death were shot, the 6th battalion providing the firing squad"

Hope that helps. You can see a copy of the History in Matlock Library (a familar place I'm sure)

I've added a couple of pictures of T McDonagh's memorial in Golden, Co Tipperary

cheers
Mike

Mike

Long time no hear! Hope things are well with you. Thanks for the above which confirms the involvement of the 6th. It's been a while since I 'did' Matlock!!

Wig

I'm familiar with the link. The chap I'm collaborating with is also collaborating with the author of that article. As for the document you refer to I would be most pleased to see a copy. Thanks for that, it could be very useful indeed!

My Great Uncle was wounded during the Easter Rising and died of his wounds in 1920

http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...casualty=408280

I do not know the circumstances regarding his injuries.

If anyone has any relevant information I should be most grateful.

Tim

Tim,
That's interesting. I have a list of wounded and killed SF's on my website here: http://www.derbyshirelads.uwclub.net/Sherw..._casualties.htm

However your Great-Uncle is not on it. Do you happen to know anything about date / circumstances so that I can amend the list?

If you want to know more about the 2/5th in Ireland see the following, where you'll also find some helpful links: http://www.derbyshirelads.uwclub.net/Sherw...lions/2_5bn.htm

Andrew thank you for the links.

I contacted the MOD in Middlesex regarding my Grandfather and Great Uncle.

They sent me the whole file they had in respect of my Great Uncle, just three pages.

I attach the appropriate part of one of the pages.

It does not say that much.

If it is not legible, I will happily email you a higher definition scan off Forum.

Do you know of the other men mentioned (Captain Jackson, Lt Brown and I can't decipher the last name)?

Regards,

Tim

Andrew thank you for the links.

I contacted the MOD in Middlesex regarding my Grandfather and Great Uncle.

They sent me the whole file they had in respect of my Great Uncle, just three pages.

I attach the appropriate part of one of the pages.

It does not say that much.

If it is not legible, I will happily email you a higher definition scan off Forum.

Do you know of the other men mentioned (Captain Jackson, Lt Brown and I can't decipher the last name)?

Regards,

Tim

Dear All

Whilst we are on this subject please find enclosed an interesting photo of the Sherwoods Foresters attacking 25 Northumberland Street (by Mount Street Bridge) and insert the house today with plaque to Michael Molone one of the defenders.

Of course the photo is not real but a still from a 1966 film commemorating the Easter Rising.

If you get to Dublin then you should check out the Mount Street Bridge and it becomes clear why the Foresters suffered so many casualties. The whole area is exposed and subject to fire from the houses and School on either side. In fact the old school is now a bar and as you are sipping that cool pint of Guiness take a look at the ceiling and you can still see the bullet holes!

Can send a better pictue if any one interested. Also have some of the Jail where the men where shot. They are in a 1916-1966 Commemorative Book (that I paid way too much for several years ago)

Click to view attachment

Mike,

I would very much like a higher definition copy of the photograph.

Please would you email it to me off Forum?

Regards,

Tim

yes of course - how do I do it? - can't seem to find any instructions on the help menu.

By the way Captain Jackson was Officer Commanding C Company 2/6th Battn during the Easter Rising.

The report I have is the manuscript of a memior by Capt A.A. Dickson. It was obviously written after the war and it records his whole war service from being accepted for O.T.C. in 1914, failing the medical and joining the Inns of Court regiment, then being commissioned into the SF in 1916 and being sent with his btn. to Dublin.

He writes extensively about Dublin and Ireland. He was in the thick of the fighting around Mount Street Bridge. Unfortunatley his memory for place names is not so good. For example, as a subaltern he is placed in command of an execution squad. 12 men and himself. He marches them off to Mountjoy jail to carry out the executions. Of course all the Dublin executions were carried out at Kilmainham jail.

He also writes about SF after the rising including a very nice spell of duty down at the Galway races!. He eventualy returns to England and is then sent to France where he fought with the SF at Poperinghe,Nieuport,La Bassee before being wounded at Gommecourt. He was demobbed in 1919 hile at Brocton Staffs.

Despite his poor recall of the placenames in Dublin this is obviously the real thing. A bit too long to post I'm afraid.


wig

Wig (John),
I've contacted you off forum, but I believe that public thanks for your help is merited. Thanks!

Mike,

I don't suppose you know Capt. Jackson's christian name(s) do you? It's a long shot, but if it's John William Jackson then I'm going to be a splendidly surprised and very happy bunny.

Andrew:

Unfortnately I don't know what his name is. However a certain Henry Humphrey Jackson was promoted to 2/Lt in 1913 (he was the sone of a former comanding Officer) but he sailed with the 6/SF to France in 1915. He was later promoted to Captain, but I don't know whether he was sent back to England and posted to 2/6th.

Wig:

If there was a chance of you sending a photocopy of the manuscript (or at least the part that deals with F & F) I would be very grateful and naturally cover any costs incurred.

Also:
I have a copy (about 7 pages A3) of the 2/6th History in Ireland - quite a lot of detail - happy to send copies (probably too big to scan but could try) - let me know if you are interested

Mike - that would be great! Let me know if scanning is too much of a problem and if it is I'll send you the postage.

Andrew,

I spoke to that chap at the weekend. It was the 2/6th Bn.

Regards,
AGWR

AGWR,
Thanks for that. I think there is now enough evidence to confirm beyond doubt that men from the 2/6th carried out some of the executions.

To all,
This thread has developed brilliantly and is shining a light into a murky episode. Thank you for all your contributions - and please keep 'em coming!

Found the guy!

William Brabazon Mather Jackson

b. 7/10/1893 in London. Educated privately.
Commisioned into 6th Sherwood Foresters in 1911.
Lt 17.12.13; T/Capt 17.11.14
During the Great War he served in Ireland during the Easter Rising of 1916
Returned to France in Feb 1917 and died of wounds 28.4.17


I would assume that Lt Brown might have been in charge of a platoon

The other name looks like Major Lomas (or Thomas) to me??

Apparently, one of the SF officers had previously sent his wife and child to Dublin because he was worried about Zeppelin raids. He met his wife in the street shortly after landing in Ireland. Within a few hours he was dead. I vaguely recall reading about this incident in one of the battalion histories. Has anyone else come across this story? If not, I will try to dig out his name and post further details.

Regards,
AGWR

check out: http://www.wfrmuseum.org.uk/rhr_Ireland.htm

Wig,

Yes, that's the chap. Thanks for the link.

Regards,
AGWR

I need an address......

wig

Mike,

I have sent an email to you via your web-site. Many thanks for your kind offer.

I must say I think this thread is fascinating. Thanks to all who have contributed.

Regards,

Tim

Well done Mike. Another piece of the jigsaw slots into place.

Sadly though, I do not get to do happy bunny impressions this evening.

Michael Malone. His brother died in '15 at Mouse Trap farm.

ErwinClick to view attachment

I came across another interesting insight into the Sherwoods in Dublin, as follows:

A Captain E. Gerrard, probably an artillary officer, found himself at Beggers Bush Barracks, which are quite close to the Mount St Bridge area where the slaughter took place. The Sherwoods he encounterd during that period did not impress him and he complained of the qulaity of the troops

"The young Sherwoods that I had with me had never fired a service rifle before. jThey were not even able to load them. We had to show them how to load them"

Later on he describes them as "untrained, undersized products of the English slums"


Taken from his statement made by him after the rising and held in the Bureau of Military History.

Fascinating topic/thread. Is there any reference to 2nd Lt Arthur Noel Eyre, 6th Sherwoods/57 squadron RFC, killed 26/9/1918 shot down over Cambrai?Have sent you an e mail Andrew, perhaps he could be added to the roll of honour on your derbyshire lads site, thanks, matt

Just came across this thread, I dont think that all the Executions at Kilmainham Gaol where carried out by the SF, I have seen a number of 1916 execution record's which became available in 1992 from Kew which are signed by the officers who overseen the executions, and they where RIR.

Peter

And from Liams post -



How many regiments in Dublin at the time had "the Irish harp" on their cap badges?

John

There were casualties from three regiments which had the harp on their badges:

Royal Irish Regiment (casualties: killed, 1 officer, 7 O.Rs; wounded: 1 officer, 14 O.Rs.)
Royal Irish Rifles (casualties: killed, 1 officer, 9 O.Rs; wounded, 5 officers, 32 O.Rs.)
Connaught Rangers (casualties: killed, 0; wounded, 1 O.R.)

I don't know which of them had beady eyes!

Michael

Paul O'Briens definative account of the Mount Street battle and the Sherwood Foresters, see http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/18...howViewpoints=1 has been an outstanding success. He has now produced a second book following the Foresters in Dublin as they fought there way through the South Dublin Union, a poor house institution commanded by Eamonn Ceannt and a 100 Irish rebels. Ceant was subsequently executed at Kilmainham Jail by soldiers of the Sherwood foresters.

I have already read this book in manuscript form and found it an accurate fast paced account of the brutal battle that roamed through the corridors and wards of the South Dublin Union. there was valour on both sides and Paul, as always, is as fair to the Brits as he is to the Irish.

Details of the book are
UNCOMMON VALOUR
1916 & THE BATTLE FOR THE SOUTH DUBLIN UNION

PUBLISHED BY MERCIER PRESS 2010
ISBN 978 1 85635 6541

CAN BE GOT IN ALL SHOPS IN IRELAND.
AMAZON
OR MERCIER PRESS WEBSITE: http://www.mercierpress.ie/cartage.html?ma...e_alias=cartage

Anyone in Dublin on thursday night is welcome to the book's launch at Kilmainham gaol 7pm