The proposed new autoroute from Amiens to Belguim attracted some comment here a few months ago. A final decision on the four proposed routes will be taken onJnauary 19. Work is expected to start later this year. Recent visitors to the Flanders' battlefields may have noted signs (''A24 - Non!") erected by protest groups.

The folloiwng web site has been created by the anti A24 groups. It contains maps of the four proposed routes.

http://pasda24enflandre.webzzanine.net/#

One can see the quite serious implications of these routes for the French Flanders battlefields. The site also has a petition which can be downloaded. As far as I can see there is no restriction on who can sign it.

One further piece of information: the French and Belgian Governments have both signed an agreement for the road's go-ahead, but the Belgian Flanders regional government has refused to endorse it. As a result there is, as yet, no agreement as to its route after the Belgian border. But clearly if it is going to hit the Belgian border around Mount Kemmel, then the options are limited. And most of them are bad news for the Ypres/Poperinghe back areas. So this is not just a French Flanders battlefield problem.

Thanks for letting us know about this Hedley

I'm not quite sure why people don't seem to be responding to this thread - the map that Hedley has linked us to looks ghastly, whatever is chosen. Although I have travelled round the area several times, I can't claim to understand exactly what all the routes mean as regards destruction of the area. With that borne in mind, the westerly option looks the least troublesome, but I don't like the look of all the off-shutes leaving it. It's just that the other routes seem to go right through areas of great battlefield interest. A nightmare choice.

Jon.

Opposition to the road is beginning to mount. The locals are not too concerned about battlefield and monument preservation, rather that the proposed routes cut a swathe through one of the few rural idylls that we have in Flanders, especially around Hazebrouck, Cassel, Mont de Flandres, Mont de Cats and Kemmel. People are worried about effects on house prices and the loss of good walking country.

I work with one of the locals affected by the plans who is active in the protest groups (one of the routes goes 10 metres past the end of his newly-converted and expensively-renovated Flanders' farmhouse). He was not aware of the WW1 dimension to this development, but he gave me the impression that the protesters would be pleased for all support for whatever reason from any quarter.

Some interesting WW2 retreat to Dunkirk remains could also be threatened.

Click to view attachmentI found this map on the web. It does look bad to the east of Ypres.

Gunner Bailey

Just noticed this thread. Thanks for the information. As if the French countryside isn't already raped by the road, this one seems particulary dreadful. It cuts straight through the old battlefields and all points between.
Surely some cemeteries must 'be in the way'? To me (I live in Paris) this looks like a re-routing of trucking traffic to avoid Paris. But it'll only increase the blight of Autoroutes for us who hold the area dear. Tsk, tsk.

Stu

Paris

One good thing this route will do will be to empty the National Road from Amiens to Albert and the A1. So we'll be able to poddle through Pozieres to Bapaume in peace & quiet without any thunderers threatening us. It will also take a lot of heavy traffic away from Arras.
I haven't any details but I don't feel the French have ever been cavalier with autoroutes and cemeteries -quite the reverse, as I can picture the one point where the TGV heading south towards Charles de Gaulle, suddenly separates from the A1 it has followed from Lille - reason? - a cemetery; French I think, but they certainly wouldn't route through any cemetery willy-nilly.

According to the French press, the French Ministry of Transport have said that they favour the le Pont du Badou route. This means that they A24 will enter Belguim between Amentières and Lille. There are two advantages to this route. First the A24 will pass through the network of existing autoroutes; this means that public opposition will be minimised (important with local and national elections coming up) and already local mayors are on record as welcoming the decision. Second, if implemented, it will remove the threat to the 1918 sites such as Merville and the Mont de Cats

The bad news is that it place Houplines and the southern perimeter of the Ypres Salient squarely in the road developers' firing line. Further, the approach to le-Pont-du-Badou passes by or through Neuve Chapelle.

It is an important announcement because the French Ministry of Transport is going to pay for the road and a le-Pont-du-Badou junction with the Belgian system would appear to minimise costs for the Belgian regional and national governments.

Graham: the cemetery you mention is Hibou Trench CWGC and yes both the TGV line and A1 appeat to have been diverted to accommodate it, presumably with some increase in cost and loss of operating performance. A visit to Hibou Trench should be compulsory for all those who think that CWGC cemeteries should be preserved at any price. The cemetery has been preserved, but that's all. The ambience has gone, it's hard to access, it's noisy. It would have been much better if it had been cleared, moved 600 metres down the road and parked in a quiet corner of a field, with a memorial stone placed on the site of the original cemetery.

This week's editions of La Voix du Nord have been carrying detailed maps of the four proposed routes for the A24. You can see them on the following websites:

http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/vdn/journal/dos..._doullens.shtml

http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/vdn/journal/dos...s_bethune.shtml

http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/vdn/journal/dos...ois_bruay.shtml

http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/vdn/journal/dos...s/flandre.shtml

This is all too horrible for words.

It is all rather depressing. I suppose that one can hope that it is done with sensitivity.

I have also been following this in the Voix du Nord - it will certainly change a very large area of the battlefields whichever route they choose.

However, it is this fifth route which is favourite:

http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/vdn/journal/dos...ces/metro.shtml

This proposal, known as the pont de Badou option, is favoured by the French Ministry of Transport who will be funding the project.

It looks to be very bad news for Aubers Ridge, Fromelles, Houplines and other key parts of the 'Forgotten Front'.

[quote name='Graham-McAdam' date='Jan 21 2006, 03:40 PM' post='383443']
One good thing this route will do will be to empty the National Road from Amiens to Albert and the A1. So we'll be able to poddle through Pozieres to Bapaume in peace & quiet without any thunderers threatening us.

There is no good thing about this, there are other battlefields apart from the Somme, and to some of us, they are very important indeed.

Michelle

This all sounds disastrous. From a personal point of view, I hope that Serre Road no 2 cemetery stays safe, since I intend to visit in September 2007,and play Highland bagpipes there for my grandfather and all the others.

Theres an article on page 5 of todays Daily Express newspaper about the planned route. I've looked on the website but it doesn't appear to be on there! The article includes a phone vote entitled "Should the French leave our war heros to rest in peace"

Yes - 0901 031 1501

No - 0901 031 1502

Closes at midnight tonight!

*apologies if this breaches forum rules*

I read the article in the Express today with interest as it mentioned Warlingcourte Halte Cemetery, Saulty.

My uncle, L Cpl John Meek Norris, 1st Lincolnshire Regiment is buried there, and I am wondering what will happen to those similarly interred, if (and most probably when) the A24 ploughs through.

Andy

The Express article is by journalist Nick Fagge who has been following the development for over a year now. There are 20 threatened cemeteries by the route including The Neuve Chapelle memorial.

The three that appear right under the path of the motorway are Aubers Ridge CWGC, Warlencourt Halte CWGC & Bac Le Sud CWGC. I was contacted to make a quote for the article on behalf of the WFA and of course passed the news onto Bruce Simpson the chairman. Not sure what we can do but I understand that the locals are also very against the route so together with them and the CWGC we may be able to apply some pressure on the planners. If you are WFA members I urge you to bring the question up at your next branch meeting as I will at the next national committee meeting as time appears not to be on our side. We did have some success with the A19 project but this appears to moving forward at a quicker rate.

The WFA are unable to police the battlefields but we can try to convince the French authorities of the depth of feeling held in the UK and France towards the Great War dead. I may be wrong but the moving of cemeteries for a road project would certainly set a worrying president. Its back to the "in perpertuity debate I guess" worrying times indeed.

Dear All,

A while back, I met a French family who saved downed RAF pilots during WW2. They own a wood land near Beauvais (Beauvais-Tille) airport. This during the war, was used by the Luftwaffe. Anyway when the French government set down the plans for the A16, the old lady said NON and managed to divert the motorway around her wood land. If she can do it then I am sure that anybody who feels that WW1 history is to be saved then its possible. The RAF boys got back home ok and hopefully I'll be able to write the story one day.

Until then below is my website concerning:

http://monsite.wanadoo.fr/st-leu/


Damn roads. They can't look after the ones they have already. Bad road signs, NO road signs, priority form the right, left, etc...

Good luck!

Frankly, I am a bit pessimistic. The French transport minister has just authorised an extension of Paris's equivalent of the M25 which will end in what is claimed will be Europe's biggest interchange about two miles from where I live. Public meetings were all overwhelmingly against the scheme, as the only way for traffic to go afterwards will be along an already saturated two-lane motorway or past all our front doors.

Bon courage Martin B

Let me give you an update - if only for old times' sake.

According to La Voix du Nord of 27 October, the Préfecture of the Nord-Pas de Calais has recommended the Pont de Badou option to the Ministry of Transport as the best choice. This is regarded as the end of the debate - this is the final choice. Theoretically the Ministry of Transport can reject it, but this would be unheard of. This means that A24 will run from a junction just to the west of Amiens on the A16, past Doullens, Bruay-la-Buissière joining the Belgian system at the N58 between Houplines and Frelinghien. It looks like bad news for that part of the Front between La Chapelle-d'Armentières and Houplines

In essence the road will link Amiens and Courtrai. It's a question of time before consideration is given to a link between Pont du Badou and the A19 near Ypres. There wil be a public inquiry into this option in 2008. It is expected to open for traffic in 2015. See:

http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/dossiers/region...rte061027.phtml

for the map of the proposed route. The red line shows the chosen route.

There was demo against the A24 held yesterday in Lille with more than 1000 demonstrators. Their reasons included global warming, nimbyism and a good rail network between Spain and the Belgian border.

Nobody - but nobody - mentioned the need to preserve British cemeteries and war graves.

Now, I should like to pose a question: Suppose that there was a proposal to widen the M25 in the UK, but that there were a few French and German military cemeteries (I notice that German military cemeteries don't feature much in UK deliberations on the A24 - presumably they can take their chance) in the way. How much importance would the average voter in Essex or Surrey give to preserving the final resting of German or French soldiers?

Hedley - good question to ask re German / French graves if it was in Surrey or Essex. I have to say i am sure the vasy majority of English would not be too worried about the graves of Germans had they invaded us in 1940 ! So its unlikely to figure in French discussions on the A24. To the Victor the spoils?!

There is a letter in the Express today from David Parker who is the Director of Infomation at the CWGC.

He says that that the CWGC has been fully consulted over the proposals and "have written assurance that no Commonwealth war cemetery or memorial will be affected by the development"

Hopefully this might be a bit of a reassurance for us all.

I don't think we can really compare - as we haven't been invaded (recently), and no ally has fought on our soil to defend us it's quite difficult to put ourselves into that mindset.

I do appreciate the point though that current issues might well take greater priority for the local residents in the road debate.

Yes, I read David Parker's letter with interest.

I truly hope that his confidence is justified and that my uncle and his colleagues will be allowed to 'rest in peace.'

Andy

Yes I hope so to, and to be fair to the French they have always been very conscientious in the past about this kind of thing, so perhaps we are worrying a little unduly.

This e-mail came through today from the Department of Veterans Affairs in Australia.

Minister for Veterans' Affairs Mailing List

VA136 Thursday 9 November 2006

AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT COMMITTED TO

PROTECTING WAR GRAVES ABROAD

The Australian Government is obviously concerned with any proposal that would threaten Commonwealth War cemeteries and will do all it can to ensure that important war sites are protected.

The A24 project, which is intended to rationalise and improve the road links from Amiens in France to Belgium, has been under discussion since the 1980s. In 2003 a formal consultation process that raised public awareness was developed.

The proposed A24 motorway, if it goes ahead, will traverse an area where Australians fought and where the Commonwealth War Graves Commission maintains a heavy concentration of cemeteries.

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission, of which Australia is a member, has been liaising with the French authorities on the road. It has been fully consulted, and has received a written assurance that no Commonwealth war cemetery or memorial will be affected by the development. A statement to this effect can be found on the Commission's website at www.cwgc.org

The Australian Government will maintain its interest in deliberations on the route of the motorway and make the appropriate representation as necessary. French authorities have been sensitive to these matters in the past, and it is expected that this will again be the case.

Regards
Andrew

This was sent to me today via CWGC


Yes, the story about the A24 has been blown out of proportion by the journalists. The Commission has been fully consulted over the proposals and has received a written assurance that no Commonwealth war cemetery or memorial will be affected by the development.


Lets all hope that they keep their word on this.

LizM

Let's not forget that it's not just memorials and cemeteries that are at stake. This road will be crossing the old front line, and other human remains, not to mention artefacts and traces of archaeological interest and importance, will be uncovered. This must be carried out sensitively and with expert help (where are you, the Diggers?), not just charging in with the bulldozers.

cheers Martin B

"This must be carried out sensitively and with expert help (where are you, the Diggers?), not just charging in with the bulldozers."

You should talk to the people at Cambrai about the motorway building there along the Hindenburg Line. "Sensitive"...."expert". You 'avin' A larf??

Well, with a name like yours,you should know.

Wishful thinking is a fine thing.

cheers Martin B