A quick look through any version of Officers died in the great war shows the most incredible 'strange and funny' officers first names. Has that type of naming gone to the dogs or are there still people out there naming their male offspring like they did in the old days?.
Did that type of naming die out after ww1?
Tom.

A reflection of the large percentage of aristocracy in the officer corps. When the family name goes back yonks, first names become important as well. I suspect that if you could see the full names nowadays, they still exist. People like that don't throw much away. It's why they need large attics. You can always be known by one of your middle names. Guess what Prince Charles' full name is.

You mean the Prince Charles who wondered why the plane seats were so uncomfortable and then found he was in club class? (Today`s Telegraph). It`s called the Princess and the Pea effect!

"A chartered British Airways 747 took a large party of official representatives from Heathrow to Hong Kong and I found myself and my staff on the top deck in what is normally Club Class. It took me some time to realise that this was not first class(!) although it puzzled me as to why the seat seemed so uncomfortable. I then discovered that others like Edward Heath, Douglas Hurd, the new Foreign Secretary Robin Cook, several former Governors of Hong Kong such as Lord Maclehose and Lord Wilson and the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Paddy Ashdown, were comfortably ensconced in first class immediately below us. "Such is the end of the Empire I sighed to myself…"


But I think truthergw has it about right. It`s a way of announcing your class along with your name. Impress the peasants. Inform other members of your perceived class that you`re one of them. I suppose that if you`re really secure in your status you needn`t do it. Douglas Haig? Phil B

C. P. A. G.

I believe that he was named after his mothers favourite charity - Child Poverty Action Group

Naming is a fashion accessory.

Even today (at least in the UK), we see children with "invented" names or names adopted from the famous or those which are simply fashionable at the time. When I was born (in 1950). John was amongst the most popular names but it is rare to see it today for a newborn. It's still possible with some names to make a good guess of age or class of the owner.

Little changes

John

I forgot to say that Liz Windsor told her husband that the initials stood for Charles Phillip Arthur George, but we know better!

There a corker of a name from an officer in the 5th Royal Irish Lancers -

Captain Vane de Vallance Mortimer Vallance

Now that is class.

Pun intended.

"What's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as much."
Badly quoted piece from W. Shakespeare.

There's always a "reason" for family names being as they are; family tradition, fashion etc. Has anyone noticed that double barrelled and hyphenated surnames are becoming more popular?

Years ago I was sorting out a problem for a chap who was a bit on the posh side. When I told him my surname, he giggled and said, " Oh! Super! Tarquin and Tudor will be delighted when I tell them that I've met Squirrel Nutkins!"
As he gave me a largish cheque for the work that we'd done I didn't pass any comment.

On another occasion, a lady telephoned my office and asked if we could do anything about a squirrel in her loft. I rang her back with some information as to when we would be round to deal with it and she asked my name. When I told her, she asked if I was taking the p**s and slammed the phone down.

A WW2 one - Rannulph Twistleton Wykham Feinnes was kia commanding the Royal Scots Greys in France.

The German intelligence report on commanders of British units was discovered at a later stage and it was noted that the regiment appeared to be commanded by a committee.

I am sure that there are some names similar to the one quoted in the Army today - Household Cavalry Officers list would be a good place to start looking.

But then they are usually referred to as "Rupert" anyway.

Squirrel you just got me told off at work you sod!! I absolutely cracked up about the lady putting the phone down on you and the boss told me off and I was to calm down!! How you like it eh? HILARIOUS!!!!!

I've always liked the name of the author of "Sniping in France" - Maj. Hesketh Hesketh-Pritchard. I find it very difficult to say.

Tom

His son is the explorer/adventurer of the same name.

No imagination some people

PS

Wasn't his father killed in Italy?

You are probably right Beppo - I have to rely on a failing memory these days!

I checked it out. It was Italy, and here is his drivers account of his death:

"The time was approaching for us to move on, and we boarded a ship for Italy but first we went to Bizerta in North Africa then to Salerno. This was a very tough job. Italy had capitulated and we were given the news about 9pm. the previous night. We heard a sigh of relief at the news. However, when we attempted to land, all hell let loose. The Germans were secure in the rocks and high ground and we suffered many casualties. One ship was sunk. Our main target was Battapaglia. The German tanks arrived in force and quite a battle took place. The battle for Salerno seemed to last forever. After 17 days when we had counted all our injuries we moved on to Maiori.

This war in Italy was so different from the one in the desert. Apart from the weather - a not very pleasant Italian winter - there were many casualties. The worst news was the death of the Commanding Officer. On this particular day in November we went to a place called Fontanella Fredda, when I say "we" there was Colonel Fiennes, Major Peter Borwick and myself in a Scout Car (Dingo). At Fontanellla Fredda the Colonel left the car and stepped onto the verge on to some trip wire and set off some mines which threw him up into the air. Major Peter Borwick went over to help him, but he too went up on some mines. I managed to get them back on to the road, this alerted the Germans who ,let us have a few shots of shellfire. Although I managed to get the car started it would not move. I got out to see what the trouble was and found that an unexploded shell was jamming the back wheel. The Colonel was shouting at me to get a move on (or words to that effect!). I took the shovel out of the car and prised the shell clear. At last we were able to move and set off for the Regiment. I radioed the Regiment and told them I had 2 wounded officers. On the way I met the Brigadier and told him what had happened. He told me to take them both to the hospital, but the Colonel had different ideas, he told me he wanted to go back to the Regiment as soon as possible. We arrived back and they were both taken to hospital in Naples. We learned later that the Brigadier's Dingo went up on a mine on the same road that I travelled on and his driver lost both of his legs. We heard later that the C.O. died on the 25th November. Indeed a great loss to the Regiment. This more or less was the end of operations with the C.O. out of action. For a short time I was sent to R.H.Q. to operate the rear link to the Brigade. While I was there I actually took the message that the C.O. had died. I was very surprised as I saw him in hospital the previous day. The Colonel was walking about. Peter Borwick was in bed not looking very well."

Source: http://homepage.eircom.net/~scotsgreys/

Of the men I am researching, many have their mother's maiden name as their middle name 'Lawrence Cave Sowter', 'John Brasier Sherriff', 'John Riley Salisbury'; one family of Wesleyans had 'Wesley' as a middle name, others seem to have taken surnames as a first name - 'Barr' and 'Sergeant' Denton, Barker Campion - must have caused some confusion when filling in paperwork. Percy seems to have been a popular name at the turn of the century too.

Well Tom, you see it's not really a name designed for oiks to use.

Yours,

Lord Henry Dundonald Rupert Vincent Algernon Hesketh-Hesketh-Hesketh

(aka Andrew Hesketh - my street name for when I mix with the plebs)

I rather like the name of this Inniskillings officer: Ambrose St Quentin Ricardo

Those names are still alive and well and many having gone back hundreds of years will still be around when Broklyn, Romeo and the rest of the soap stars names will be confined to the history books.
If names like Arthur and Leo are making come backs look out !
There was a Brigadier McGregor McGregor of Clan McGregor Bt Late Scots Guards serving in the 1980's so look hard and you will find them.

Rob
PS Poncy is a bit harsh would you like to be called Romeo? I think not-give me Rupert or Rory any day.

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rob B @ Feb 23 2006, 03:03 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

There was a Brigadier McGregor McGregor of Clan McGregor Bt Late Scots Guards serving in the 1980's so look hard and you will find them.

Rob

[/quote]

During WW2 my father served in the 60th Rifles under Lieutenant the Lord St Just.

His mates just called him Peter Grenfell.

Really tricky these Ruperts.

These rather grand names have the edge on Wayne, Duane, Brooklyn surely?

And there are plenty to choose from the book "The Aristocracy in The Great War". Don't have the tome to hand so unable to quote the author.

Do remember from reading through it that while their names may seem unusual to us today they were in the main a brave and dedicated bunch.

.... and Britney and Troy and Bradley (where he come from??) and Kylie and ....

Beppo,

I'me not surprised would you like to be called Algernon, Algy is so much cooler, here are some more:

Marcus Beresford Busfield Stapleton Martin or Richard Aubrey de Burgh Rose CMG, DSO. And to leave on a real high Wigstrom Hercules Beresford de Courcy-Wheeler

Rob

My Grandfather's cousin - William Ewert Astill (WW1, Machine Gun Corps - Leicester and England cricketer) might not have had a 'poncy' name - but sure as anything it gave away his parents' politics! My old Headmaster, Alfred Redvers Stedman (Marlborough Grammar School) had a more 'military' middle name. Whilst indulging myself I recall my old chemistry master making us sniff chlorine - "That's what they gave us in the trenches". Wish I appreciated at the time what a privilege it was to be taught by that generation.

Edwin Astill

And another - I'm enjoying this - WW2+ I recall the obit. of Lord de Lisle and Dudley VC, when Gov. Gen. of Australia, went to a dinner at the American Embassy in Canberra. When he got there he found two two places laid. One for Lord de Lisle, and one for Dudley. I can just imagine the US Marine Lt. "Gee, this English Lord guy is bringing his fag with him"

Edwin Astill

Not only do some of the names seem elaborate by todays standards, but so was the language they used.

I think it is absolutely ripping the way the chaps spoke in those days when they came out of the line after a gallant show, or how those who knew they were dying would say "Good bye old man - God bless England and the old regiment!"

We might smile now, but this sort of language was the norm then.

I see your relative Ewert Astill served in both World Wars and did not make his England debut until almost 40.
An excellent allrounder.Would be most interested in other details of his cricket career. P.M. me if you have a chance as it is not WW1 related.
Kind regards,
Roland.

Was it really Tim? Maybe it is just me being a cynic, but how many actually said it and how much is invention for letters home and from the papers?

Unless soldiers attitudes have changed a hell of a lot I would think that what they said was something like: That ******* ******* German **** shot my ******* ***** off.

On a later war. I read that what General Tony McAuliffe said when asked to surrender Bastogne was not "Nuts", but something 'earthier'. "Nuts" was invented for posterity.

Here is an interesting article about "le mot de Cambronne" which might, or might not, have been spoken at Waterloo:

http://www.napoleon-series.org/research/mi..._cambronne.html

Not Great War related, but I had a Canadian colleague once that was involved in a slight mix up at a USAF base due to names. Captain J Major and Lieutenant T Commander were the crew pilots. On arrival the Americans thought that they could figure out Lieutenant Commander (a naval rank) but were unsure of Captain Major (must be very senior). Discretion being the better part of valour, the arriving Canadians were met with a honour guard and a band.

Roxy

LoL! That sounds like something from the film Airplane!

[quote name='BeppoSapone' date='Feb 23 2006, 05:14 PM' post='406345']
Was it really Tim? Maybe it is just me being a cynic, but how many actually said it and how much is invention for letters home and from the papers?

Beppo

Oh I have no doubt that soldiers regularly used the F word, but it was less prevalent amongst "Gentlemen" ie the Officer Class. Gernerally an OR would try not to swear in front of an Officer, and if he did he would usually apologise.

Words like "Ripping", "Spiffing" etc were in normal use amongst in the Upper Classes.

Maybe a bit of license was used by COs writing to bereaved relatives when they told how their loved one died if not "instantly", then at least saying last words like "God bless the old regiment!". No one ever died writhing in agony and screaming in the mud with their guts hanging out in these letters of condolence.

Victorian values were very much held in those days.

It reminds me of the Monty Python sketch of the CO visiting the dying officer in a tent during the Zulu Wars who has had his leg blown off. When asked if he was in much pain, he replied "Can't complain, but it stings a bit, Sir!"

Tim

Tim

I'm proud to report that my son Jack has my maiden name as his middle name, so I'm keeping alive the tradition.
So his full handle is Jack Johnson Young

How about this for a name

ELDRED WOLFERSTAN BOWYER-BOWER


Name: BOWYER-BOWER, ELDRED WOLFERSTAN
Initials: E W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Captain
Regiment: Royal Flying Corps
Unit Text: 59th Sqdn.
Secondary Regiment: East Surrey Regiment
Secondary Unit Text: and 3rd Bn.
Age: 22
Date of Death: 19/03/1917
Additional information: Only son of Capt. Thomas and Florence Margaret Bowyer-Bower, of 30, Bramham Gardens, South Kensington, London.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. D. 8.
Cemetery: MORY ABBEY MILITARY CEMETERY, MORY

Hi All,

All I can say loud and clear is, HERE,HERE !!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Tim.

This name thing has been discussed here before.

QUOTE (Paul Reed @ Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:50:57 +0000)


It doesn't give his full name, which included 'Plantagenet'. I believe he is in the Guiness Book of Records as having the longest name of any soldier who died in either World War.

Here is my reply:

Léone Sextus Denys Oswolf Fraudati-filius Tollemache-Tollemache de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache, a Captain in the Leicestershire Regiment, who died on 20 February 1917.

Try a search. Tollemache ought to do it!

Just had a play about with the National Archives MIC search engine and found this man:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1

Lance Corporal Captain Dearden

It's also probably a good job that the modern habit of naming kids after the place of conception wasnt around in 1950. Otherwise......

Yours

Llanfairfechan Hartley

I am very fond of Hackett-Pain and the amazingly named Pine Coffin.

If your parents had travelled just a little further you could have been Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch Hartley

Name: TOLLEMACHE, LEONE SEXTUS
Initials: L S
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Captain
Regiment: Leicestershire Regiment
Secondary Unit Text: attd. as Bde. Major to 3rd Aust. Bde, 1st Aust. Div
Age: 32
Date of Death: 20/02/1917
Additional information: Son of the Rev. Ralph William L. Tollmache-Tollemache, M.A., J.P., vicar of South Witham, Lincs and his wife Dora Cleopatra Maria L. Tollemache-Tollemache (nee de Orellana). His brother Leo also fell.
Grave/Memorial Reference: VI. A. 4.
Cemetery: DERNANCOURT COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION

How big was his death plaque?

Poncy Names, Mmmmmm.

Had a couple of medal groups - not to officers, however - but I thought they were worth a mention because they seem odd names today.
Jasper Fuchs, a Pte in the 1/5 Linc R
and good old Percy Higginbottom, a Cpl in the 1/6 Cheshire Regt., (Stockport Territorials, I do believe). Walter Illingsworth is not too bad until you replace Walter with Wally, with the Linc R and then the Monmouths.
Oh yes, how about this one
----- Marmaduke Vipond, Linc R. What sort of name is that?
Until you look at the 1901 Census, you would think some posh nob that did not go for a commission.

NO --- he was a boy from the rough end of Sunderland. I think he had a brother called Horatio Vipond.
Can you imagine the ribbing. Good job there was a load of brothers in the family, to look after each other.

Anyway, I still think the best name for an officer came from one of our favourite telly progs.
Who could forget 2nd Lt. STRANGELY - BROWN ???

How would his mum call him for dinner? Cripes it would be cold and ready to be thrown out by the time she got through all of that.

Cheers

Bill

Yes, it sounds like someone reading a foreign menu
Cheers
Lee

I do have one name:

Charles Wyndham Maude Cornwallis who enlisted as Wally Maude in the 9th ALHR, rose through the ranks to become a 2/Lt and sadly was killed at Gallipoli on 13 August 1915.

His father was Lieutenant General Oswald Maude Cornwallis, from Cheltenham, England.

Cheers

Bill

Lee

G'day mate



You might be forgiven in thinking the bottle of wine was included for the same price.

Cheers

Bill

My cousins son named his daughter Layla P------, after the song by Eric Clapton.

This upset the grandmother, my cousin. I told her that it could have been a lot worse. The child could have been called All Along The Watchtower P------

So that's how all those poor babies got called Beckham?

Not Great war, but my favourite neighbour when I was a child was Mrs Cave-Brown-Cave, she had lived through both wars but I don't know if any relatives of that surname served.

As to the 'stiff upper lip' attitude, my favourite has always been the staff officer sat on his horse next to Wellington at Waterloo, when a canonball took off his leg.

"By god sir, they've shot my leg off!"

Wellington.
"By god sir, so they have!"

Probably apocryphal, but no less entertaining for that.

More heart rending is Alan Whicker's account of a terribly wounded Subaltern lying on a stretcher in a makeshift hospital at Anzio and clearly dying. He called over a passing Doctor to ask if anything could be done. The Doctor, knowing that nothing could be, tried to sidestep the question.

" I'm afraid we're not quite ready for you yet"

" I quite understand sir" the Subaltern replied,closed his eyes and quietly died.



Dave.

Dave,

I am sure the man who lost his leg at Waterloo next to Wellington was either Uxbridge or Paget-and I can think of other things to say rather than "I think sir I have lost my leg"-more like B******S!
Rob