Hi all,

You may not have noticed it or been directed to it just yet but there is now a website dedicated to British war graves on a similar vein to the Aussie and Canadian sites. It can be found at www.britishwargraves.org.uk .

Still in it's infancy there is obviously a lot of work to be done to capture the photos of all the graves in UK but at present there are a few willing volunteers helping out. I thought I would give it a mention on this site as many of you probably live near a churchyard or cemetery in which there may be the odd one or two (2000 odd in Pompey!!) and might like to assist.

If you would like to do 'your bit' perhaps you could look at the site and offer your services.

Having helped in other projects I have 'volunteered' (something I have always been taught not to do!) to co-ordinate the county of Hampshire. Any takers?

Regards

Jolly Jack

I've seen this site. Its similar to the Canadian "Maple Leaf Project" and a worthy cause indeed.

Dave.

I got an e-mail newsletter from them the other day, up to then I had not heard of them!
I haven't read it in full yet, but it seems very worthwhile.

I too have recently signed up as a volunteer to this project. It has given me the chance to give just a little back to the people who, during the war, gave their all (especially my Great-Uncle Sam).

If you have a camera and a few hours spare, it is very humbling to locate the graves of the British men and women who died during the war and to read the inscriptions. Sadly many of these graves are obviously no longer cared for.

Please visit the britishwargraves site and help us to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice. May they never be forgetten.

Alternatively, wouldn't it be wonderful if all forum members tidied up just 1 uncared for grave in preparation for Remembrance Sunday (just a thought).

Saddens me greatly. What can we do?

As an active volunteer for this project I can only suggest you email Richard who runs the project with any queries in the first instance.

Please bear in mind its all voluntary and all these national projects do 'interface' with each other already to a certain extent.

There are a few threads on this already you can search on but as I say the best thing is to check the website and make contact with Richard.

The main aim is to build the database of images. As for restoration of private headstones (or CWGC) you are best placed to inform the body that looks after the cemetery i.e. the council who will either try to contact any next of kin regarding care or some kind of remedial activity or removal may then take place. CWGC headstones are regularly inspected (1x or 2x a year I have been told) by their own staff but do also rely on information from councils & public.

In some circumstances the CWGC will obtain permission from council or church authorities to investigate and potentially maintain a headstone if family cannot be traced or indeed on behalf of a family. These are limited and each case different.

Cheers

Ryan

Good idea. There are a small number of WWI graves within a short walk of my house (about 4 in one graveyard and 1 in another). I think I'll head off to the grave on it's own (a slightly longer walk); it is to a member of the CEF.

I am involved with this in my own area, Its a good excuse for a wander on a weekend and finding little tucked away places in your local area you didn't know existed. I stumbled (almost litterally) of CS Lewis's grave the other day.

I have only found one church yard so far in real disarray, 5 of the headstones I am looking for in the yard must be private but when I find them I'll give them a bit of a clear, It only takes a pair of secetures (sp) and a pair of gloves in me pocket.

I would also recomend contacting the area rep for info on joining.

Regards

Leigh

I have been aware of the project for some time and I have always been surprised that a scheme with national scope seems to be presented as an individual initiative, in apparent isolation from, and lacking endorsement or approval from the many relevant bodies that could have conferred weight and status. I have been surprised too, that so few photographs are up on the site.

On the credit side, there is an impressive list of volunteers and nearly 14,000 listed graves.

Maybe my reservations are misplaced. I would like to hear what other Pals think.

They have got a link from the CWGC page so thats a reasonable credit. Also I believe that they have been snowed under with photos and getting the raw image onto the site is probably the most time consuming thing for whoever does that bit.

L.

why would anybody else other than a family member want a photo of a persons grave ?? this bit i dont understand.

People who are researching local men etc, or collect medals might want a photo of the grave they are researching.
dave

Thanks Dave, the research i can understand, but if some collecter has my relations medals and i give this site my grave pic does that mean it makes my relations medals more expensive to buy back ??????????????

That one i have wondered about myself,many times.

If i located my Great Grandfathers Medals and that person had a picture of his grave in Boulogne.Would it as Nigel has asked make those medals worth more ??.If so,is that perhaps another reason for photographing graves,to add value to medals.Or am i just being a cynic ??.

Stephen

If all graves were photographed then it selling a medal with a photo of the grave would have no added value.

I can see that pictures of the soldiers or other personal items/photos will make a medal worth more but why would a picture of a grave that anyone could take make it any more valuable.

If I could find my Gt Uncle's medals then a grave pic would make no difference and I would happily pay over the odds for for them.

Lastly I see it as a project just to make these images more easily available. If you say 'why bother' they will only be of use to the relatives of that man then why bother scan and put the MIC's online, they afterall are only really of interest to the relatives of that man and if so pushed could easily go to Kew and get them in person.

Just my tuppence

L.

So if a bloke on ebay downloaded a pic from here or any other site, regardless of the quality it makes the stuff he is selling more valuable. Is that what you are saying Leigh ????????????

er no.

I thought that was what you were saying. I was saying that to me having a grave pic to go with a medal makes no difference.

And I am not a medal collector so I have no experience of buying them with pictures of graves. As a grave pic is a fairly easily creatable modern thing I would not expect someone to ask for more money for a medal if a grave pic accompanies it but I am (as usual) prepered to be shown the error of my ways

no i was asking a question, i now dont have a clue what i am talking about so will go and have a lie down

I think you need to visit the site and read the aims of the project!!!

As you can see from the photo I posted above, the soldiers who died during the war are becoming easily forgotten. The site is a tribute to them.

I also have relatives in Australia and USA who are interested in specific war graves. Quite a journey for them to Kew!!!!

Finally the people who run the site are looking at ways to protect the images as they remain joint property of the site and the photographer.

Thanks Ryan. I'll ring my local council ASAP.

There in lies the point of the comment I was trying to make. Sarchasm is a low form of wit but wit it stilll is.

I think I must be incoherent tonight

I was trying to defend the site and its aims. I seem to just have confused ............................................

nothing out of the normal there then.

Also the state of the graves can only be sorted out by the church yard/CWGC or relative on a long term basis. As I pointed out up the tread I have searched and not found headstones. They I guess are private stones but deserve no less care and attention.

Rest assured that none of these graves will be lost even if there is a current problem in certain areas with undergrowth etc.

Salientpoints has correctly outlined the situation above.

It will almost certainly be the responsibility of the cemetery owner to maintain the area around CWGC graves under an agreement with the Commission. Private war graves are the responsibility of the grave owner and the general responsibility of the cemetery authority.

CWGC do inspect these graves every few years to check that the casualties' names are still visible. If any are in a very poor state, they will try to do something about it but it is a long process as they have no legal rights in such cases and they rely on the co-operation of several people.

Some authorities play ball and do a good job but others cite 'lack of cash' and do not bother. Remember that not everyone shares our view of the importance of these graves (As angry as that makes me, it is true!).

The correct action if you spot an unkempt war grave is to inform CWGC's UK Area office in Leamington Spa (ukaoffice@cwgc.org). They will pass the message to the area inspector and he/she will check the situation and recommend any remedial action.

Undergrowth which has got out of control is not a long term problem. It is easy to remove with the will and the cash. Damaged or broken private headstones are a more awkward problem.

The one thing that is important here is - patience. These matters can take months, even years, to rectify as they all have to take their place in a list of priorities.

However, CWGC does rely on members of the public reporting such situations - so email them on the above address. It may take time but you will not be ignored.

Voluntary clearance of undergrowth is nearly always welcome but it is wise to check with the cemetery authority first. Some may forbid it for legal and insurance reasons - some will not. Never touch any stonework - for your own sake. Report it as stated above.

It is important to keep up the interest in these graves and the more pressure put on cemetery owners, the better. Everyone can do their bit.

If you can't find a private headstone war grave, ask for its location on the same email address above.

Also, the British War Graves project is worthy of your support.

You can also ask the CWGC for details of its Community Involvement scheme were you can volunteer to care for local war Graves

All The Best

Chris

Chris

Well done. I forgot that!

The contact address for this is education@cwgc.org

This started as an education project involving schools but has grown from there. I quote CWGC..

"Although the major focus of the Community Involvement Programme is on youth, don't let that put you off. The Commission welcomes help and interest from all quarters."

But we are wandering away from Steve's original post. Sorry

As part of our research into the Oxford & Bucks Brian and I are photographing as many grave and memorial inscriptions as possible. I personally find the inscriptions interesting being able to browse them on the internet is a bonus.

Family historians who find they have a link to WW1 soldiers may also find the photographs useful e.g. those researching a particular name.

Thanks for mentioning the site it deserves supporting as many people can benefit from the information posted.
regards
Lesley

Have you seen the late 1800's cast Iron graves in St James church cowley, Oxford Lesley?

All to Ox malitia and yeomanry as far as I can remember. I have pics at home I could mail if you have not.

I have also photoed (is that a word?) a lot of the Oxford graves for the aforementioned site, very interesting, seeing and reading the inscriptions to so many men.

Regards

Leigh

Viewing the stone and thinking about the person and reading the inscription are my main reason for visiting a war graves world wide. The personal messages are often so touching.

On the subject of inscriptions I have wondered was there a list you could choose from or had the family a maximum number of words, etc.

Another question in my mind is there anywhere that gives good advice on how to make good grave photographs. I take war grave photo's and family graves for my genealogy research. Sometimes the results are so disapointing. Others that I seen on this forum are 100 times better. What is the clue?

Liam

There is a good guide to photographing gravestones on the website this thread is about -

http://www.britishwargraves.org.uk/

Cheers

Ryan

An over cast day is best for pics in my opinion. I have found though that on some graves the carving is very shallow and does not photograph well.

If you want to improve pics on the PC using something like the 'auto contrast' on Paint shop pro works quite well. I also use this on all the documents I have photographed at the NA.

L.

Hi All,

Many thanks for to those of you that have supported my original posting, it did seem to be going off in a tangent a few e mails back but i think it has come back on track now Please take a look at the site and read the project aims.

We are not out to make money for people, purely as a means of remembering those that paid the ultimate sacrifice. Whatever the reason that people look at the site it is fine by me. The chaps (and ladies) are being remembered for whatever reason so we must be achieveing the aim.

No other large organisation wanted to take on this massive task and I personally thought Richard (the Project director) very brave to take on the project. However, we are now amassing a marvelous band of volunteers (one in Monte Cassino last night!) who are ploughing through the lists the CWGC provide to us (thanks Ryan for pointing out that we are 'approved' by them)

We are trying to purchase some software to 'watermark' the images but as pointed out we are all volunteers working on 'zilch' funding!!

Anyway I will not banter on as I have about 4 CD's in the post today and have got to check about 300 images to get on site. It is taking longer than expected purely due to the popularity and the amount of images we are being sent. Can I have some more?

Many thanks to all that are helping out

Steve Rogers (aka Jolly Jack) British War Memorial Project, UK Co-ordinator

Nigel asked whether anyone other than a family member would be interested in a photograph of a headstone and some others were suggested. But on the matter of 'interested' family members it is as well to remember that many headstones are many miles, sometimes hundreds or thousands of miles away from where an interested relative might be. I too am involved in the British project, I joined it for several reasons not least because I had a small involement in the New Zealand project and learnt at first hand how much a photograph meant to some relatives whose family fell in Crete. Families are spreading around the globe and travel to a cemetery where a relative is buried is not always possible.

Another reason for the project, to my mind, is that it will also serve as a reminder in perpetuity. Headstones deteriorate over time and even now it is very difficult to read some of the older non CWGC pattern ones. Photographing them now, whilst there may still be a legible inscription will get over the problem of deterioration from one perspective. It is however a massive project and we need all the help we can get.

Finally, on tbe question of taking good pictures, I agree with Leigh that an overcast day is best. I and several friends have made several attempts to take photos in Suda Crete in the Spring and Summer and failed miserably because the light has been too bright. I'm just going to have to go back in the winter :-(

Hi Tim,

Are using a digital or a SLR camera. Not that I know anything about camera's but I use both with varing degree of sucess. Are there no photographers or "Dark Room" experts on the forum.
I am wondering if there a filter for a 35mm that might help, fiddling with "F" factor etc. I often use a telelens and a tripod to get the grave completely in the picture. What is a good distance often puzzles me. It is most frustranting to get home and find the film/shots have failed. I am more often taking photo's of normal graves for my genealogy work. They are all the colours of the rainbow and usually come out all right. It is the white war graves with carved letters that give the most problem, I find. That is why I am thinking filters but for my digital camera there are no filters.

Liam

The site hints for pictures are useful. One way if getting inscription definition, is to spray the stone lightly with clean water, from a clean dispenser(such as a house plant watering bottle). If the insciption is not too worn it will give the definition on the headstone required..
This will not damage the stone and bring out the lettering.

Spike (volunteer for Cumbria)

TIM

See THANKYOU, GWGC 3rd August 2004

Nigel

Spike

CWGC do not approve of anything being sprayed on their headstones - even water!

The weather does enough damage as it is but additional water can damage a headstone. It gets into microscopic cracks and expands in freezing conditions causing progressive damage.

Sorry Terry, won't do it again

I'll just wait until it's raining a bit....

It's not like we're short of rain in Cumbria

Good Man!

In the UK you won't have to wait long!

I was going to pop out today to take a couple of snaps..... luckily the forecast is heavy rain... so no need to take a water squirter with me

Les.

I seem to remember there was a book on Gallipoli where the author gave instructions on putting dirt on the gravestones to make the inscriptions stand out.

I had a meeting with the CWGC, years ago, about starting a mass project to record all headstones/inscriptions and the Maidenhead staff were paranoid about avoiding all such activities.

If you are serious about getting good results, a large golfing-type umbrella, to cast a shadow, is very useful when the sun is strong.

In poor lighting conditions, a reflective (silver) umbrella (or similar gadgets sold in photographic shops) will create more light as required.

For digital cameras, you can use the filters in Photoshop to enhance the image.

For auto focus and cameras with a built-in light meter, you may find it useful to place a grey sheet of paper against the headstone and focus on that. Remove the paper, then take the shot. I'm sure there are other tricks, too.

If you have manual override on your camera or a manual camera then you can use a handheld meter. Place the meter against the headstone facing towards the spot where you're shooting from and take a reading. This will get spot-on results every time.

Hello All,

A question or two, are headstones in this country of interest? Are wwII stones of interest?

If the answer to these questions is yes, where does one send the photos to?

Regards

Ray Hoggart

The answer to both is very definately YES.

Check the photo requirements on the site at

www.britishwargraves.org.uk

I suggest you contact the area co-ordinator for your locality and he/she will tell you which cemeteries remain to be covered.

Dear Terry,

Thanks for the advice on contacting the CWGC. They repiled immediately!

Tincie