Hi everyone.
I've made this request before, so forgive me for repeating myself. I'm researching the role of the Royal Marines in the Zeebrugge Raid which took place on St George's Day 1918 with a view to writing a book. It will be biographically based, with an entry for each man who took part and, where possible, a photo. Any snippets or leads, no matter how trivial they may seem, would be gratefully received. For my part, I am happy to help anyone researching individuals, as I have mountains of info, photos etc of both marine and naval participants. I'm always happy to check names to see what info I've got.
Best wishes,
Dom

Dom

Corporal CH/18066, Richard H R Neate, 4th Royal Marine Battalion, Royal Marine Light Infantry. Died 23rd April 1918 in England. Age 22. Born at Castle Combe. Son of Annie Taylor Short (formerly Neate), of 100, Wood Lane, Chippenham, and the late Richard Neate. Buried south of the church in ST ANDREW CHURCHYARD, CASTLE COMBE, Wiltshire.

He was wounded on board HMS VINDICTIVE and brought back to England. His coffin was taken by train to Chippenham where the coffin was given a military escort ot the chapel of rest before conveyance to the nearby village of Castle Combe.

He is named on the village war memorial.

Further details to follow once I have checked my records.

Dave

Great, thanks Dave....just the sort of response I was hoping for. His name rings a bell so I'll check and see what I have on this gallant marine.
Dom

PS Having now checked my card index, I find I have an extract from the Wiltshire Times describing his funeral, memorial etc. I don't believe it has a photo, sadly, but I'll dig it out and supply you with a copy if you don't already have one. Looking forward to hearing what you have. Dom

Hello Dom,

Not sure if this will be of interest but I’m researching George Black Orsborne, Skipper of the Grimsby fishing vessel “Girl Pat” in the 1936 saga. He was born in the north of Scotland (Buckie), July 1903 and named George Black after his father. His father died during WW1 and his mother married a man called Orsborn in July 1917. About this time young George (14) is supposed to have run away and joined the Royal Navy, Boys Service after, lying about his age, (saying he was 16). a few months later he is supposed to have wangled a transfer to the Dover Patrol - ML 239 and to have been wounded on that ML at Zeebrugge 23/03/1918, then after recovering in hospital, (RN Hospital Gillingham?) the Navy found out his true age and he was discharged end of that year!
I have documentary evidence - (having used up a few blocks of credits on the Scotlandspeople website! and other sources) - of some of this but nothing so far to prove or disprove the main event. At some stage he took his stepfather’s name with an ‘e’. So if he was on ML239 I’m not sure what name he would be using. Sorry its a bit long winded but do you have a crew list for that ML or list of injured?

Cheers: Terry

Dom

I think I know of a photograph of Richard Neate. I will check and get a copy if possible. Will get back to you off forum in a few days.

Dave

Terry,
Let me have your email and I'll send what little info I have on ML239. Unfortunately I don't have a crew list and Osborne is not in my list of wounded (though there are numerous omissions to the official lists, I have found).
Best regards,
Dom

Pte Samuel M HOPSON, Royal Marine, a pre-war enlistment, eldest son of Mrs Hopson and the late George Hopson, He was posted as missing after the Zebrugge Raid which is where he was believed to have been taken prisoner, having been one of the landing party.

Mentioned in the 'Ormskirk Advertiser' 2nd May 1918.

I have some other photgraphs that were sent to me from a relative of Hopson. I am searching my records to see if I can find contact details for the sender.

Ken

Ken, thank you so very much. What a great photo. Would really love to contact the family. His name rings a loud bell with me so I'll look him up and see what I've got. I definitely don't have a photo, though. That's another one I can tick off. 200 down, 500 to go!
Best regards.
Dom

Dom, Anything on this would be greatfully received! As for the name, it could be variants of his step father's surname - Orsborn. He is named Orsborne on his marrage certificate 1925, but probably more likely to be Black at this time or possibly an alias - finding the truth about this character is not easy!

email contact: *@grimsbybytes.co.uk or email links on either of the websites at the bottom of my signature.

Best wishes for your project.

Cheers: Terry

Hi Dom
Do you have any info on the 34 men of the Chemical Section of the RNAS who took part in the raids on Ostend and Zeebrugge. They were responsible for the operation of the chemical smoke screen equipment. I have the names of about two thirds of them, but nothing on the remainder. If you have official numbers, they can be distinguished by the prefix F to their numbers.
I would be most grateful for anything you have on these men
Regards Duncan

Hi Duncan,
I have a full list of those who formed part of the Naval landing party, but only a few names of those who were on other vessels. Those who landed on the Mole were in charge of flamethrowers. Some were aboard the Motor Launches sent in to lay smoke screens before the main attack. I have quite a bit of info on the men, many of whom went on to have distinguished careers in science etc. Are you researching anyone in particular? Let me know your interest and I'll be happy to help.
Best regards,
Dom

dom have you anything on harold tristram r.m.l.i. i have a photo .thanks tom .

Sadly I don't have him as listed as being on the Zeebrugge raid. Did you have any evidence he was?
Best
Dom

no dom i know nothing about him he was my great uncle .and i dont know anything .what next . all i have is a photo . tom

Don't suppose you have his service number (would be on his medals, for example)? If not, you would have to look up his name on the RM medal roll for WW1 in the ADM 171 lists at the National Archives at Kew. That would give you his number, with which you would then be able to look up his record of service in ADM 159 series.
Best regards,
Dom

Hi Dom.Do you have anything on the following Royal marines at all,

CH 14864 F.W.Goodchild (have RFR LS as Corporal).

PO 5496 PTE E.Jeater R.M.L.I. .

1007 - S Bombardier I .A.Schofield R.M.A. .


Many thanks Bob.

Hi Bob,
Am not at home, so will have to double check later, but I'm pretty sure the RM Museum at Eastney have Goodchild's copy of a photo of 1 Platoon taken just before the raid. I think I have some other stuff on him. Will get back to you on him and the other two tomorrow. Nice to have the RFR LSGC. What's your interest in the others?
Best regards,
Dominic

Hi Dom.I have a 14/15 Star trio and RFR LS to Pte Jeater and about 2 weeks ago I picked up a pair to Bombardier Schofield in a house clearance shop.Regards Bob.

Hi Bob,
Having checked my records, I don't think either of the other two were on the Zeebrugge Raid. But Cpl Goodchild was, as you doubtless already know. I have a copy of his record of service, though you've probably got a copy already.
I have attempted to download a copy of the 1 Platoon photo, which you will see from the back, was his copy and now resides in the RM Museum. Sadly it doesn't say which one he is, but I have a hunch he's the corporal sitting 2nd from left with two stripes. The only other corporal in evidence is in the back row and I know who he is. The lance-corporal at the other end of the first row of seated men is L/Cpl Heffernan whose medals I have. He was killed trying to stamp out bombs that landed on the deck of the Iris. He was MID, though his citation in the original recommendations is among those who got CGMs. Doubtless he'd have got one if he'd survived.
Is it just the RFR LSGC you have for Goodchild?
Regards for now,
Dom
PS Sorry, can't download the pix so let me have your email and I'll send over copies of the pix directly.

Hi Dominic.I am currently awaiting Corporal Goodchilds RM service record so I did not know about his service in the Zeebrugge raid,I only have is LS unfortunately which I picked up on Ebay.Same with the other 2 Royal Marines,I am currently awaiting their service records.Do you still have some information on Bugler Harry Camfield as I am the same Bob!!!!!!! Hope you are well Dom and picked up some nice bits yourself.
My email address is cbottlebob@ntlworld.com.Thanks Bob Clayton.

Click to view attachment
Bob,
I've had a go at cropping the photo I think is Goodchild. He has a medal ribbon for what looks like a Long Service so a check of his service record should confirm this.
Best
Dom
PS Having now checked, it seems I was wrong! I think this man is a Cpl Carr. It turns out that Goodchild was a lance-sgt during the raid, which means there are two possibilities for him. See my post below for the pix.

Click to view attachment

...and here's L/Cpl Heffernan, the senior bugler in the Royal Marines at the time of his death at Zeebrugge in 1918. He wears the ribbon of the Messina Earthquake medal.

I have lots of similar photos of Zeebrugge men, so do please post any queries. Equally, if anybody has any photos or other info on any Zeebrugge men, I'd love to hear from you.

Cheers.
Dom

Hi Dom.Excellent picture and superb information.Strange to thing that the medal I have now could have been sat in his locker on the base when this picture was taken all those years ago.Thanks for allowing me to see it.I have sent you an email.All the best Bob.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Here are the two new possibilities for L/Sgt Goodchild. He was 35 at the time, but I'm not sure I can tell which it is. Any clues anyone? Are there any differences in uniform for a lance-sergeant as against a full sergeant?
Dom

Hi Dom.
I have an interest in all men who served in or were involved with the RNAS. I have a list with some detail of virtually all such men. Any info on any of the RNAS men who took part in the raid would be most welcome. I am also in regular contact with the person sorting out the RM enlistment papers at Yeovilton and could perhaps reciprocate with info. These enlistment papers frequently contain all manner of further documents such as court martial papers, marksmanship record, writing and arithmatic tests on enlisting etc
Yours Duncan

Hi Duncan,
I'll see if I can come up with some good info for you. Are you planning a book or is your interest medal or family related? I might take you up on the Yeovilton offer. You might have to be patient as I'm waiting for my wife to give birth, but once the nappy rota has been sorted I'll see what I've got! For the time being, attached are some details of one of F12815 LM John F Wilkinson who died not that long ago. I have a couple of newspaper obits somewhere if you're interested.

Best Regards,
Dom
Click to view attachment

Hi Dom,
Thank you for details of John Wilkinson. I was aware of him as having been at Zeebrugge in HMS Vindictive.
I had some bare info on him. Born Oldham on 10th June 1897 and enlisted on 30Mar1916. I won't have the opportunity to look at his enlistment papers for about a month, but I'm almost certain that I will find that his papers will be signed by F.A.Brock himself, as was almost always the case when men were "entered for work of a chemical nature" as was added to their enlistment papers.
I don't intend to write a book, am not a medal collector and am not family connected. I have served a lot later in the Fleet Air Arm for 22 years and admire the RNAS. I am compiling a database and also act as a volunteer at the FAAM where I have built up a collection of some 14,000 folders on RNAS men, whenever I can find any info to justify a folder. I am interested in anyone who served in the RNAS from cradle to grave and would appreciate any info. There is no rush as I have been working at this since the late 1980's and will probably still be at it when I drop off my perch.
Regards Duncan

Do anyone have any knowledge of flame projectors being used on the Vindictive. I know that Capt PS Hay of the Royal Engineers supervised the operation of a static projector, possibly of the Vincent type, during the raid, for which he was received an MID. I recently found a document at the NA, which has this to say:

"Arrangements were made for two large battery type flame throwers ro be installed on HMS Vindictive - then lying at Chatham. This was carried out by men from Wembley in collaboration with Naval ratings from RN Experimental Station, Stratford. The Admiralty also place orders for the construction of 36 "Hay Flame Guns" for use from HMS Vindictive. Forty men from the Naval ratings at Stratford to form a flame thrower crew, and they were drilled and trained a t Wembley in both the operation of both the large battery flame throwers and the Hay Flame Gun by Capt Hay and Lt Tribe. These equipments were subsequently used with considerable success when the Vindictive carried out the raid on the Zeebrugge Mole on April 24th,1915."

The Hay Flame Guns in fact were portable projectors. I have found no corroborating evidence for these having been used, and wondered if anyone may have come across anything that might support the assertion made.

Terry Reeves

Terry,

Carpenter (The Blocking of Zeebrugge, pp. 198-199):

"The Stokes gun batteries had already been bombing the Mole abreast of the ship. The flame-throwers should also have helped to clear the way for our storming parties. The order had been given to switch on the foremost flame-thrower. Unfortunately the pipe leading from the containers to the hut had been severed somewhere below by a shell explosion. This was not noticed before the order was obeyed, with the result that many gallons of highly inflammable oil were squirted over the decks. One hesitates to think what would have happened if this oil had become ignited.

Incidentally the actual nozzle of this flame-thrower was shot away just after the order to switch on had been given by the officer in charge, Lieut. A.L. Eastlake, attached R.E., who held the proud position of being the sole representative of the military on board the attacking vessels. Eastlake was the only other occupant of the hut and I don't think he will easily forget the brief period that we experienced in that decidedly uncomfortable erection. Sparks were flying about inside, but somehow, at the time, one didn't connect that pyrotechnic display with the fact that they emanated from the medley of missiles passing through it. Curiously enough neither of us were hit, but our clothing sadly needed repair, which was common enough in shore fighting, but unusual afloat where the missiles are generally rather too large to pass through one's headgear without removing one's head en route.

The other flame thrower fared no better. Commander Brock was in charge. He lit the ignition apparatus and passed down the order to 'switch on'. The whole outfit of oil ran its course, but unfortunately, at the very commencement, the ignition apparatus was shot away, with the result that the apparatus was converted into an oil thrower instead of emitting a flame."

Keyes (Zeebrugge and Ostend Dispatches, ed C Sandford Terry, p. 148):

85. Experimental Party.
The account of the attack on the Mole would not be complete without reference to the contribution in officers and men made by a detachment from the Admiralty Experimental Station at Stratford, and the work done by them. This detachment was commanded by Lieutenant Graham Hewett, RNVR, with Lieutenant A. L. Eastlake, R.E., second-in-command. It contributed thirty-four men, all volunteers, for the working of the fixed and portable flame-throwers, phosphorus grenades, etc, either on board Vindictive, Iris II, and Daffodil, or with the various naval and marine parties landed on the Mole. The fixed flame-throwers in Vindictive were put out of action by enemy shell fire. The portable ones accompanied the seamen and marine landing parties, the personnel of the experimental party sharing the difficulties and dangers of the assault, Lieutenant Hewett specially mentions Air-Mechanics W.H. Gough and W.G. Ryan for good service during the attack on the Mole.

Captain Hay is not mentioned in the index of either book. Perhaps his MID was for the training phase rather the raid itself.

Hope this is helpful.

Mick

Hi, Terry and Mick;

As for the quotation from "Carpenter (The Blocking of Zeebrugge, pp. 198-199)"; can we assume, as the passage was written in the first person, that Carpenter was the second person in the "hut" containing the controls for the forward fixed flame thrower (FW)? Or was Carpenter just quoting a third party?

I have heard a bit about the British use or attempted use of FW at Zeebrugge, but this is more detail. Again, the experience with the large fixed FW here matched the general outcome when attempts were made to use these in trench warfare, these beasts were so large, so complicated, that it was improbable that they would survive and function in a combat situation. And since they carried so much flame oil, they were a real hazard to the users and vicinity. As the narrator suggests, the ship could have been burned up or exploded by these devices being damaged.

It is interesting that the Royal Navy was attempting to use FW long after the Army had given up on the concept. In 1917 The CO of the Special Brigade, Foulkes, not only ceased to attempt to use the large and portable FWs, but he even stored his large devices in the open so that they were exposed to the weather and corroded. Was Eastlake a veteran of the Special Brigade?

The use of even light FW in a tactical situation tends to be a rather dramatic event, and if they were employed in the fighting on the mole one would think that some participants' accounts would have mentioned this.

I don't know too much about British FWs, but a good deal about these devices generally, and I will follow this thread and pitch in if I can participate usefully. I know the German FW jargon and technology and perhaps I can help make sense of any German descriptions of this engagement. The German flame unit gave many, many demonstrations (and possibly short courses) for the officers and NCOs of other units, so there may have been German officers at this location who were familiar with this weapon and might have left a useful narrative of this aspect of the attack.

Very interesting topic.

Bob Lembke

Bob,

Keyes (Despatches, Second Supplement to London Gazette, No 31189, p. 2525):

"Captain Carpenter was conning the ship from the port forward flame-thrower hut."


Pitt (Zeebrugge, p. 94):

"Rosoman's voice came regularly and imperturbably every minute through the voice-pipe from the conning-tower under the bridge, with the arranged routine question - 'Are you all right, sir ?' - and in the Flammenwerfer hut at the port end of the forebridge, which gave such an excellent view of the ship from bow nearly to stern, Carpenter could take due satisfaction from the smooth precision with which they had proceeded so far and which now would surely take them to a perfect landfall on the Mole."


Lake (Zeebrugge and Ostend Raids 1918, p. 104):

"Carpenter was conning the ship from the forward Flammenwerfer hut."


Checking the Keyes despatch quote re FW this morning in the original Second Supplement to the London Gazette (Wednesday 19 February 1919), I find that I accidentally omitted the middle initial of Lieutenant Hewett, who is properly cited in both sources as 'Lieutenant Graham S. Hewett R.N.V.R.' - which might just matter if there was more than one Lt Graham Hewett RNVR. Pitt, incidentally, incorrectly refers to him as 'Hewlett'.


'How We Twisted the Dragon's Tail' (Percival Haslam, Hutchinson, 1918) has no index, and I couldn't readily find any refs to FW, but there is a photograph (below) opposite p. 33. Incidentally, this book also contains a 'complete list' of casualties for the Zeebrugge and Ostend raids (unfortunately all in together) and for the second Ostend raid.


The 2006 programme of exhibitions at IWM(N) includes (October) "HMS Vindictive flamethrower. Made by J Morris & Sons, fire engineers from Manchester, the flamethrower was used aboard HMS Vindictive during the Zeebrugge Raid in 1918".

The subject of pyrotechnics of all kinds at Zeebrugge, and the leading role of the charismatic Brock, is certainly a fascinating one - but it doesn't seem to involve the Royal Marines, who are the subject of Dom's thread. Is it within Terry's powers as a Mod to chop this discussion off the end of this thread and create it as a new topic ?

regards
Mick

Hi Duncan,
The role of Brock and his RNAS men at Zeebrugge is certainly most fascinating. I have a framed scroll with a list of all the casualties and a poem composed by someone at Stratford! There was a book about the experimental station at Stratford but I've never seen a copy. Doubtless the FAA have one.
I will gradually supply you with what I have on these men, which may hopefully lead to more files being opened. Perhaps you should write a book about them. Easier than the Marines, as only 36 formed part of the landing party.
Best for now,
Dom

On the subject of Lt Eastlake RE, I once read a letter at the National Archives from a woman (persumably his wife) lamenting the fact that he only got an MID. A letter in The Times from the same woman (Evelyn Eastlake) in 1944 notes his service at Zeebrugge and Russia and says: "He hearly lost his life from a flame projector while carrying out his work." The News of the World (I don't have a date) notes: "Eastlake, knocked out for the time being, landed on a dead Bluejacket." The only other note I have is that he died in Chicago 6/4/60.
Does anyone know where his medals are?
I have a photo of him somewhere.
Dom

Dom

Here is a small image of my grandfather John Hamilton Davidson. According to the oral history of my family he served in the Royal Marines and participated in the raid on Zeebrugge. I hope you can help me by providing information confirming this claim. The only other details I have about him are that he was born in Belfast on the 28th November 1899. I would be very interested in finding out his service number as this should make it easier to identify any medals awarded to him during the Great War. Although he isn't wearing any medals in the photo my father assures me that his dad has shown him his medals. Any information at all about his unit name or service records would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Linz

Dear Linz,
A nice photo indeed. However, the only Davidson I have listed as taking part in the raid is a Pte J.D. Davidson who was 23 at the time of the raid so that wouldn't tally with your granddad's age. This Davidson lived til 81 years and worked with Belgian resistance in Ww2.
Best Regards,
Dom

Dom

Thanks for checking your records for me. Too bad you couldn't confirm my grandfathers involvement in the raid. If anyone else has any information that might indicate that he was indeed at Zeebrugge I would certainly like to hear from you.

Linz

Hello Dom - Do you have anything on the following man please.

MERRITT, FRANK
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment:
Royal Marine Light Infantry Unit Text: 4th R.M. Bn.
Age: 39
Date of Death: 23/04/1918
Service No: PLY/9984 Additional information:
Son of Mrs. E. Merritt, of Martyr Worthey, Winchester, Hants.
Served in Persian Gulf and South African Campaign.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: P. W. 40A.
Cemetery: DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY

Thank you
Old Jack

What you'd need to do, Linz, is go the National Archives and look up the WW1 medal rolls in ADM171 series, which are alphabetical. That would give you his service number and you could then look u his record of service in ADM159 series.
Best
Dom

Ref Pte Merritt

Hi there.
I don't have much more than you. I have a photo of his grave and I have a note that his role in the raid was a sick berth attendant with 12 Platoon, HMS Vindictive. I have a photo of 12 Platoon but can't post it as it takes up too much capacity. What's your interest? Is he a local man to you?
Best,
Dom

Hi Dom

I went to the National Archives site and put his name into the search box for ADM 171 but no luck. There were plenty of John Davidsons but no results were found when I included his middle name or used the initials J H or Royal Marines. As I live in Australia, it isn't possible for me to visit the National Archives in person. I'm still familiarising myself with the site so I'm not sure if it is possible to veiw medal cards online to check birth dates. I'm starting to think I'm in over my head.Not sure what to do next. Any ideas on what I might be doing wrong or what I should try next?

Linz

Hi Linz,
Sadly you can't access these things online. Only naval papers are online. Leave it with me. I'll see what I can do.
Dom

Thanks Dom

Good luck, I'll keep my fingers crossed and thanks again

Linz

Linz,
My dad has got a copy made of the record of service. No sign of Zeebrugge participation, I'm afraid, though I'll check when I get it in front of me. Let me have your address and I'll post it off.
Regards,
Dom

Hi Dom,

Great to hear that you have found something on my grandfather. It's a pity that there doesn't appear to be anything to put him at Zeebrugge but I'm still delighted with the news. I've sent you an email with my postal address and I'll be looking forward to reading his record of service very much. I assume that these records will contain information concerning any medals awarded to him as I hope to be able to buy replicas to present to my father, who is also a returned serviceman. He has often lamented not being able to wear his dads medals on the ANZAC Day marches each year so I figure that replicas are the next best thing to the real medals.

I'm deeply grateful for your kind help and wish you all the best with your book. Good on ya mate.

Linz.

No problem, consider it done. I believe he was entitled to a British War Medal and Victory Medal.
Dom

Hi Dominic,

Received a very interesting package in the post ! Something to read the next weekend, thank you very, very much !

Best from Johan

Dom,
Anything on Malcolm McDonald, Pte. RMLI, HMS Vindictive
Thomas Darby, Pte. RMLI, HMS Vindictive
William Frew, Gunner, RMA
All injured in the raid and sent to Queen Marys Hospital in Southend.

Andy

Hi Andy,
Haven't got much at all on any of them, I'm afraid. Interestingly, neither McDonald or Darby are on the original 4th Battalion muster compiled before the raid....at least not in my copy. Frew was also on the Vindictive.
Cheers,
Dom

Hi Dom,

I'm afraid i only have at the moment a little bit of family hear say and tales to go on here but maybe you might be able to finally help me put my great grandfather at Zeebrugge.

Great Grandfathers name was

Ernest Thornton Stoker 1st Class
K35837 (i think was his number) on his medal role are two numbers that one and the following pjc128385.

The family story is that he volunteered for the raid and was on one of the blocking ships the Iphigenia. He was taken from the KG5 as a second class stoker for the raid and afterwards made up to stoker first class.

It would be lovely to finally be able to confirm this one, as my gran is so adament that he was there, it was one of the great war bedtime stories that he used to tell her when she was little.

All the very best

Tammy

Dear Tammy,
I've checked my records but unfortunately I don't have any record of him. There is not, as far as I am aware, a list of those who were on the blockships during the Zeebrugge. Have you looked at his record of service? If not, you can order it online using the following National Archives link. I've checked and he's there. It cost you £3.50. I have to say that most of the confirmed blockship people I know of have no mention of the raid or indeed the name of the ship on their service records. Most of them seem to have Vivid II as the ship, which was a shore base which they would have been attached to for administrative purposes. The only other option would be to check the Zeebrugge Association memberships lists. He wasn't on the original list, in about 1920, which I have. But I will contact a friend who some later lists by which time the membership had expanded hugely. Let me know how you get on with the record of service.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...y=*&queryType=1

Best regards,
Dom